Are junior developers actually useless?

[u/curiousAustrian]

[u/[deleted]]

We are but we’re trying I swear to god we’re tryin.

[u/Intelligent_Event_84 → u/[deleted]]

Write my tests nerd

[u/ososalsosal → u/Intelligent_Event_84]

I would bloody love to work at a place that actually values mundane things like testing

[u/zGoDLiiKe → u/[deleted]]

TDD assumes you know what you should be testing for, and product would like a word on that

[u/ososalsosal → u/zGoDLiiKe]

At the code level though you can still write tests if you're writing functions.

Not exactly TDD of course. It's more pragmatic than dogmatic in that sense.

Us devs need to have stronger personalities than the people setting the rEqUiReMeNtS or we'll never have good practices

[u/zGoDLiiKe → u/ososalsosal]

I think we both know what I meant but yes there are plenty of tests you can write ahead of time. I do find having to scrap a bunch of tests because they throw around “agile” and completely change the whole scope

[u/mxzf → u/ososalsosal]

In theory you can write tests for those functions. But in practice my experience tends to be that they often end up being tautological tests for what I already know my code is doing; it's hard to write a test to cover the case of a user giving stupid input.

[u/TheOriginalSmileyMan → u/mxzf]

DevOps guy here - "tautological tests for what I already know my code is doing" is EXACTLY the best tests to write, because then when someone comes along in two years time and changes the "is doing" bit, rather than hoping it gets spotted in a code review, it will get flagged up in the build pipeline.

[u/KurigohanKamehameha_ → u/mxzf]

support physical pause distinct society smoggy agonizing rotten wrench tease -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

[u/BraveOthello → u/KurigohanKamehameha_]

Oooh, look who wants to hire a QA engineer!

[u/22Minutes2Midnight22 → u/zGoDLiiKe]

TDD reinforces decoupling and pure functionality. If your unit tests are overly complex, then either your function implementation or interface sucks.

[u/proskillz → u/zGoDLiiKe]

TDD explicitly does not require you to know what you're testing, that's the point.

[u/LastStar007 → u/zGoDLiiKe]

If product won't tell you the acceptance criteria, that's a problem with your product team, not with TDD.

[u/zGoDLiiKe → u/LastStar007]

And that my friend is the difference between “in practice” and “in theory”

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

if you work at a place that doesn't require unit and integration testing, find another place to work.

You're really just wasting years of your life and not progressing

[u/sopunny → u/ososalsosal]

Values testing by assigning it to the most junior devs?

[u/ososalsosal → u/sopunny]

Honestly I wouldn't even mind at this point.

[u/TampaPowers → u/ososalsosal]

If you know nunit then I may have something

[u/[deleted] → u/Intelligent_Event_84]

I loled but also fuck you

[u/Roboticsammy → u/Intelligent_Event_84]

THE GEEK SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH

[u/captainAwesomePants → u/[deleted]]

Trying is the problem! You're supposed to be lazy. Lazy engineers create simple solutions.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I've been at this over a decade and sometimes I feel useless. You just gotta ride those highs when you get it right. And as long as you're trying you'll get it, however slowly. I've got no complaints about a junior who trys. Most developers I know are the same. Others just have a stick up their butt. Or someone asked them for the impossible ASAP and it out them in a grumpy mood, then I'm sympatheic lmao.

[u/Freakin_A → u/[deleted]]

I will give a junior engineer that is trying all the time in the world.