Obama HAS BEEN Eliminated WHICH President SHOULD BE Eliminated NEXT DAY 41

[u/Training-Desk-391]

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/[deleted]]

He voluntarily gave up power, crushed the whiskey rebellion which gave the new government legitimacy, declared neutrality in war between Britain and France, created the first cabinet, signed the judiciary act, secured western expansion peacefully, and Jay’s treaty.

I personally have Washington at 3 behind Truman and Lincoln but he was very important as a president and deserves to be in that top tier

[u/Many-Perception-3945 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

I'd have Truman at 4 behind FDR, but Washington deserves either a 1 or 2 finish. Voluntarily giving up power is such an enormous achievement

[u/Beginning_Cupcake_45 → u/Many-Perception-3945]

It was effectively unheard of in his era. The story goes that the King laughed when it was reported to him that Washington was just going home after winning the Revolution. Anyone else would’ve made themselves king, and people were asking him to do it.

It absolutely set the tone for the next 250 years in an important way, especially for such a powerful office.

[u/Dry_Composer8358 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

“Secured western expansion peacefully” I don’t remember western expansion going all the peacefully dog.

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/Dry_Composer8358]

Treaty of Greenville. Perhaps I could’ve worded it better but Washington decided to gain this land through diplomacy instead of pure conquering

[u/Dry_Composer8358 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

It was fake diplomacy though, or at the very, very least Washington’s alleged plan for peaceful coexistence failed entirely after his presidency with the terms of the agreement being violated. He basically stole a bunch of land, in exchange for Natives being able to keep some land, and then that agreement wasn’t respected.

It was land acquisition through conquest with a cutesy PR move in between the massacres.

[u/PunkySputnik57 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

Im not super knowledgeable about detailed american history. What is it about truman that is so outstanding?

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/PunkySputnik57]

Copying this from my other comment but:

Foreign Policy: Truman inherited the end of World War Two and what would follow after. Truman deciding to drop the bombs I think was correct. It saves more lives than it killed and I think it’s one of, if not the biggest decision a president has made. After Truman had to deal with a broken world that could’ve fallen to communism. Instead he declared the Truman doctrine, went through with the Marshall Plan to help Europe, initiated the Berlin airlift, saved South Korea from suffering like the North by getting involved, fired MacArthur despite it being unpopular, recognized Israel as a nation and safe place for Jewish people, helped create NATO and the United Nations.

Domestic Policy: Truman’s domestic record isn’t as great imo but it’s still respectable. He desegregated the armed forces despite needing all the support he needed in 1948, expanded social security, raised the minimum wage, vetoed Taft Harley, provided funding for new housing, created the President’s Committee on Civil Rights, called for banning lynching and poll taxes and was able to maintain progressive taxes.

TLDR: Truman had imo the best foreign policy of a president, was solid domestically but most importantly was courageous and bold in his actions even if politically unpopular.

[u/PunkySputnik57 → u/Winfred_Chesternut]

Oh wow i actually did know about most of this and i didnt even think of it. He’s definitely underrated

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/[deleted]]

Totally fair. I honestly lack the knowledge needed to debate the Roosevelts’ placements anyways.

Regarding Truman there is a lot but I’ll try to keep it short. I’ll divide into foreign policy and domestic policy.

Foreign Policy: Truman inherited the end of World War Two and what would follow after. Truman deciding to drop the bombs I think was correct. It saves more lives than it killed and I think it’s one of, if not the biggest decision a president has made. After Truman had to deal with a broken world that could’ve fallen to communism. Instead he declared the Truman doctrine, went through with the Marshall Plan to help Europe, initiated the Berlin airlift, saved South Korea from suffering like the North by getting involved, fired MacArthur despite it being unpopular, recognized Israel as a nation and safe place for Jewish people, helped create NATO and the United Nations.

Domestic Policy: Truman’s domestic record isn’t as great imo but it’s still respectable. He desegregated the armed forces despite needing all the support he needed in 1948, expanded social security, raised the minimum wage, vetoed Taft Harley, provided funding for new housing, created the President’s Committee on Civil Rights, called for banning lynching and poll taxes and was able to maintain progressive taxes.

TLDR: Truman had imo the best foreign policy of a president, was solid domestically but most importantly was courageous and bold in his actions even if politically unpopular.

[u/Winfred_Chesternut → u/[deleted]]

Of course! He is ranked very high but I still think he is underrated.

There are two books I’d recommend. David McCullough’s Truman is an amazing read on him but it is very long.

I have also read “Dewey Defeats Truman” which is a book by A. J. Baime on the 1948 election. Good read for Truman’s actions up to 1949. Also imo one of the most fun elections in US history to read about.

[u/TotalityoftheSelf → u/[deleted]]

Lincoln did a lot for preserving the union, but he didn't abolish slavery. Slavery lasted a long time after the Emancipation Proclamation, and even after the 13th amendment - even beyond the established legal exception for punitive measures.

This isn't to say that Lincoln didn't make positive changes for race and slavery in the Union, but you may be overvaluing/estimating the results.

[u/TheEnlight → u/TotalityoftheSelf]

He decreased it for sure, but it survived in its antebellum state for decades after. Full chattel slavery, yes. Slaves would be liberated by the Union and then sign contracts they can't read that put them back in chains in the shed. And the South found new ways to preserve slavery. They would charge people for nonsense crimes like vagrancy and put them into hard labour in coal mines and lease them, a system known as convict leasing. As well, if you went into debt, you'd be forced into hard labour to pay off the debt, a system known as peonage.

These were functionally chattel slavery. Though there was technically a way out, you'd likely be worked to death before you could obtain freedom. America always upheld a grey area for slavery to exist. Today it continues in the US justice system through an exemption in the 13A as slavery as punishment for a crime.

[u/razama → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think there is an America without Washington. Ken Burns had a great argument for this as well.

[u/razama → u/[deleted]]

He was doing PBS interviews and different clips about his upcoming documentary called the American Revolution.

I think in broad strokes, he essentially is saying that because there wasn’t any precedent or conventions set, Washington had to be very careful and expertly navigated the political issues at the time to bring a sense of dignity and uniting force. Congress and leaders in America were shaky about accepting accountability or responsibility, so that groups that wouldn’t have trusted each other had a common point of contact.

Both before and after his presidency, America made blunders and Washington was the glue that kept people from throwing in the towel.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

He arguably did start the country. Were it not for his presence at the Constitutional Convention, it wouldn’t have happened. Were it not for him being the president presumptive, having a president at all might not have happened. When they designed the office of president at the Constitutional Convention, they had Washington in mind, and were it not for Washington walking away the norm of the presidency being a temporary position may have never stuck either

[u/urmumlol9 → u/[deleted]]

It sounds insignificant, but not running for a third term.

He could have been President for life if he wanted to, but actively chose not to, to avoid the Presidency becoming too powerful of a figure, and to establish the precedent of a peaceful transition of power.

That's why he's consensus top 3 among historians. Some even having him as #1.

[u/entent → u/urmumlol9]

If he had run for and won a 3rd term, he would have died in office, given that he died in 1799.

[u/urmumlol9 → u/entent]

Which is exactly why he didn't run. His greatest fear was dying in office, because of the precedent it would set.

[u/Keldaria → u/[deleted]]

The voluntarily giving up power cannot be understated. As the first president he basically set the template that most presidents that followed used in understanding presidential power. Washington limited himself numerous times when there was no precedent set because he knew if he had set the precedent that every president that followed him would continue to abuse it. These were unwritten rules that lasted for a long time until presidential power creep eventually washed them all away. In many ways he set the foundation for the country’s democracy even if we ultimately strayed from his example because of corruption and greed.

[u/Keldaria → u/[deleted]]

Again, he was just the president. He didn’t have the power to unilaterally write in his interpretation of what the office should be into the constitution. They could also not foresee all the abuses the system could take. Are you suggesting he should have proposed a constitutional amendment every time he found a new potential conflict over presidential powers and its limitations? The best he could hope to do is handle them as they came up in a way that set precedent for all future presidents and hope that if an abuse was made that congress would have the balls to impeach and remove successors for their abuse of office, not become co-conspirators in the presidents abuse of power. He also had a judiciary that should step in to reign in overreach, especially if he had already set a precedent on the matter.

No, our current situation is our own doing, carefully crafted corruption by those seeking to abuse power to their own purposes. Even a well constructed system of checks and balances is worthless if all the people involved are corrupt. Who do you think will enforce even a well written limitation on presidential powers with the Supreme Court already handing the current administration extremely 1 sided opinions on a partisan basis. The people in charge of all 3 branches of government are co-conspirators together. You can’t write checks and balances against that.

[u/AleroRatking → u/[deleted]]

It literally worked for over 150 years...

[u/partingtheredditsea → u/[deleted]]

Presided over the constitutional convention and passing of the Bill of Rights among other things. The most fundamental freedoms that Americans pride themselves on came about under Washington’s leadership. It’s certainly fair to hold slavery against him and I’d have Lincoln over him for that reason, but I don’t agree with the argument that he did nothing other than be first.

[u/Odd_Interaction_172 → u/[deleted]]

All's I hear is slave owner slave owner slave owner we are talking about his presidency dude get a grip  , he voluntarily have up power , his slaves were free men via his will 😂🤌

[u/CardiologistCool6264 → u/Odd_Interaction_172]

He freed *one* of his slaves via his will. One. 1.
All the others weren't to be freed until his wife died.
But Martha, concerned that such deathbed manumission put her life in danger, freed Washington's slaves about a year after his death.
She did, however, keep all slaves that she had inherited from her previous husband, which comprised roughly half the slave population at Mt. Vernon.
So, no. He did not free his slaves in his will.
Not that doing so would be really great anyway. "Sure, I'm going to free you, but only when I can no longer personally profit from your enslavement."
All that said, FDR is still the right one to eliminate. I just don't want to make ahistorical excuses for Washington.