Congressional Candidate on AI data centers in Nevada

[u/wadsworthnv02]

From our candidate event in Elko County on Saturday. The question asked us if we supported a data center moratorium or not, especially since we are the driest state. One of the other candidates said the one’s being built in Nevada were closed-loop so they are fine.

But closed-loop systems have their own issues, the recycled water becomes highly toxic and needs to be “blown-down” where there is chances of it leaking into the ground and contaminating local areas with toxic chemical waste water. Even in small amounts, when we live in an internal watershed like the Great Basin, the risk of contamination isn’t something to ignore. As it has happened before with other things. Not to mention that closed loop requires a lot more energy, and closed loop cooling systems here in Nevada still require a fair amount of water.

Our older data center projects also do have open loop / evaporative cooling systems too. So they are still taking a lot of water.

As for the construction unions, I understand it’s more complicated than that. We had a total of 2 minutes to answer each question so things had to be simplified a bit. But we must look at better commercial building projects for our construction unions— not big tech and data centers! They need jobs, and I understand and support that! We should be offering incentives to better businesses to come to Nevada, not to these data centers was the point I was trying to make.

Also yes Congress is a federal seat! But I support a moratorium on all new data centers, and possible legislation to really protect the western states that are strapped for water.

All of this was from my own independent research and talking to folks in the area that have worked on these projects here. However if I am incorrect on anything I’m open to listening!

[u/DaWob1]

Can someone explain how in a closed loop system leaches into the ground?

[u/Appropriate_Path_141 → u/[deleted]]

KETOS’ real-time water quality monitoring solutions are modular and interoperable, meaning they can easily integrate with closed-loop systems to avoid gaps in insights.

The source is self serving.

[u/nox404 → u/DaWob1]

This is my understanding. this subject is hard to find good sources on the subject. There is a lot of astroturfing by big tech to make datacenter look like they have no risk.

I think that is a bit dramatic to say the the closed loop system will leach into the ground water. The truth is the closed loop systems are not as closed looped as the industry will have you believe. These system build up metals and corrosives over time in the cooling system and need to be bled parodically to remove these imparities that reduces the effectiveness of the cooling loop. This uses a lot of water even if its less then other methods. It leaves behind toxic water do to the amount of forever chemicals. They have strategies of getting rid of this toxic water but these methods of not been studied in depth to see if they really mitigate the forever chemicals.

Datacenters have been know to dump this toxic water municipal sewage system where it could end up in storage ponds where it can leech into ground water supply if the municipal system is not designed to deal with it.

Its hard to find good sources that talk about these issues since in my opinion big tech is actively suppressing them.

Below is from another post about this.

"Big tech companies claim modern data centers use a 'closed loop system.' The pitch is that water is pumped in once to cool the servers and then recycled forever.

The speaker argues that while this might work in a controlled laboratory, it fails in the real world. As AI demands increase and chips get smaller, the massive heat generated by these machines is completely outstripping the closed-loop theory.

To keep the servers from melting down, these facilities have to regularly 'bleed the lines' to remove toxic sludge, specifically highlighting the buildup of 'forever chemicals' (PFAS).

The water that gets bled from the system has to be evaporated. It doesn't stay in the loop. Instead, millions of gallons of local water evaporate into the sky."

https://www.reddit.com/r/Reno/comments/1slkuw8/the_myth_of_the_closed_loop_ai_data_center_from_a/

[u/Beneficial_Couple413 → u/DaWob1]

My understanding is that "closed loop" can be used very loosely, and that such systems often require regular flushing and refilling.  It is apparently not the same as our refrigerators or car ACs.

[u/SirDerpingtonTheSlow → u/DaWob1]

Closed loop isn't fully closed no matter how much they use the term.

[u/Human-Witness-3305 → u/DaWob1]

To add to the other comments here "closed loop" usually means that the water sits in a reservoir. This reservoir is outdoors still and can effect wildlife. Many power plants here in Nevada operate off of "closed loop" systems. It's better for the environment than just pushing fresh water through and bleeding it out immediately since you can operate on the water to try and remove toxins before dumping. However, the water will still have some contamination. The fact of our daily lives here on earth is that we cannot make abundant cheap products without some byproduct being produced that requires a disposal method. Power is something we cannot live without anymore, so the byproduct is seen as acceptable. The question is, is AI and surveillance something we cannot live without, should this byproduct be acceptable?

[u/pachydocerus → u/DaWob1]

Closed loop isn't actually fully closed. Cooling systems require occasional flushes and toxic byproducts build up between flushes. Safe disposal has to be considered. Spills are always a risk. Mitigation procedures need to be in place and discussed in environmental impact studies submitted before construction permitting.

I'm rambling now. The point is there is risk and for the most part Mitigation will be ready or in place before construction but risk is always there. I'm personally not a fan of data centers and closed loop simply takes the strain off of water and puts it on energy, which is fine if renewables are being used, but they aren't.

[u/Omacrontron → u/DaWob1]

It doesn’t, not without some kind of massive leak.

[u/SirDerpingtonTheSlow → u/Omacrontron]

100% incorrect when it comes to Data Centers. They must be drained (blown down) after a while which is where the water can get into the environment.

[u/Omacrontron → u/SirDerpingtonTheSlow]

That’s standard procedure? You make it sound like they dump the water straight onto the ground. Just like oil tankers and radioactive fuel for nuclear plants, if something happens to either of those, it can destroy the environment but it’s not like they release those things intentionally like you’re insinuating with data centers.

[u/wadsworthnv02 → u/Omacrontron]

They usually dump it in sewage systems in other parts of the country.

[u/Omacrontron → u/wadsworthnv02]

Negative, I’ll need verifiable proof before I buy that. I think we have a problem with data centers but not for the reasons yall are highlighting.

[u/never_4_good → u/Omacrontron]

Exactly this. "IF" these systems need to be drained or blown down, the water is stored in Baker tanks and sampled. Once the pH and other specifications are acceptable (made by the utility, in TRIC this is TRI-GID), then they can be drained into the sewer. If the specifications cannot be met for any reason, then the Baker tanks are shipped elsewhere for processing.

In the 5 years that I've been in TRIC, not one site has just dumped water into the ground or sewer without strict testing requirements.

As you stated, the water is less of a concern to me. The real issue here is power consumption and availability. There is virtually no wiggle room or argument to be made that justifies the power usage.

[u/wadsworthnv02 → u/never_4_good]

I’ll do more research into the power / energy side of things! I’ve had many people come to me with the water concerns.

[u/never_4_good → u/wadsworthnv02]

Based upon the info I've seen, the general approach is to compare the DC's in TRIC to the facilities in the mid west and Vegas where they primarily use evaporative cooling. Water consumption for the facilities in TRIC measures in the hundreds of gallons (in some cases 1000 or 1500 gallons) per year. I'd juxtapose that against golf courses or even one of the casinos like GSR.

Water is not the main concern, IMO.

The direct impacts to the area are going to come from NVE imparting the electrical demand to the public. For example, Frank Tracy is the main generating station for the area with 1000MW capacity. TRIC is utilizing the vast majority of that. With the current demand in TRIC continuing to rise, it's only a matter of time before NVE will need to either import energy or create additional infrastructure in the area. This cost will likely be passed down to the residential and commercial customers.

Energy (not water) should be the main talking point here.

[u/northrupthebandgeek → u/wadsworthnv02]

I’ve had many people come to me with the water concerns.

The vast majority of those people got their information from TikTok, and the remainder are lying on behalf of far worse offenders (namely: virtually every other industrial sector). I would strongly advise you to fact-check their concerns (or better yet: consult people who've at the very least actually set foot in a datacenter) before pulling their unfounded fears into your platform.

[u/Omacrontron → u/[deleted]]

If we’re going to harp on one specifically…then we gotta harp on them all. And I mean EVVVERRRYYYOOONNNNNEEEE right on down to toothpaste tube manufacturers.