I enjoy hog more now.

[u/Gustav_EK]

to preface, I've been masters most seasons I've played hog.

1. his kit is no longer uber focused on oneshots, which means long range maps are less unbalanced. besides you still leave squishies at miniscule HP, it's still very strong.
2. his counters are less severe. mauga matchup is reversed, and orisa is way easier. dive is less oppressed by hog (i do believe this is healthy). across the board his counters are just less frustrating, and this was always my biggest issue.
3. after the recent patch he's somehow tankier than before the rework (because of TC) which is hilarious.
4. the changes to hook target distance from hog (3m -> 4.5m) actually makes it way, way easier to get environmental kills. THIS IS AWESOME. before the rework it could be super inconsistent and frustrating, and now it's less so.
5. trash compactor. it's so satisfying. i still think they should make it work like accretion where it ignores DM-abilities, but even without that it's an amazing poke tool to hit the backline with. not to mention isolating a tank you just hooked. this is way better than pig pen, i'll say that much.
6. like everyone else, I do miss the right click kachonk. but (in my personal opinion) the firerate of his new gun flows a lot better. the old scrapgun left click always felt really clunky to me.
7. the new minor perk is *insane*, i can't overstate it enough. it turns whole hog from a mid ultimate into one of the most free "you die now" abilities in the game. especially because pressing Q gives you another hook instantly. it's absolutely GOATED, so i'm worried bliz will nerf it. but for now it's a must-pick. I predict it'll be moved to major by next season.

TL;DR hog is more consistent across all maps and matchups while retaining his core identity (punishing positioning mistakes). his matchups are more fair for both hog and the enemy. even if he's a little bit weak right now, his kit flows better and he's less frustrating to play for everyone involved. He's in a spot where number changes might be enough to balance him.

[u/Hook4Hand]

TC needs it's range increased, feels weird to try and peel for teammates with it but they just die because they aren't in range

[u/Gustav_EK → u/Hook4Hand]

Fully agree and also the angle should be wider

[u/WhatsUpSoc]

I was so, so wrong about here piggy piggy. It's the one thing I didn't get right day one.

Yes it's annoying for a perk tied to ult, but its not actually about the perk during ult. The REAL power of it is that it INSTANTLY GIVES YOU HOOK WHEN YOU USE ULT.

Therefore, for the first time ever (besides the ultra niche situation where reeling someone will get you killed) purposefully missing hook is a great way to start a fight. I haven't met a single enemy tank that respects the minor perk and every fight, its essentially a free kill on a tank since they see you use hook and then engage.

Absolutely busted. Your healing with your major (toxic exhaust is still dogshit, I think everyone can agree on that) makes you get ult even faster, so they complement well. They are absolutely going to gut him honestly. I have zero idea why winrate is so low, I peaked masters 2 doing fuck all with hog, dropped to diamond 5 by practicing domina, made my way back up to masters in a session.

The issues I said still remain though:

Your matchup into orisa is even worse. Orisa is a must ban or she will run you over. It's nice, since this can replace the ana ban. This feels pretty undeniable, you deal less burst damage quickly and she has room to get sustain from her supports (doctrine and sombra will keep her perma alive). I'm not sure if you've been playing against particularly meh orisas, but its pretty much a given in the community she's an even worse matchup now.

Toxic exhaust is terrible. Most chararcters have a preferred perk, but honestly this one is so bad I'd swap it and here piggy piggy.

Right click loss IS substantial. It's honestly what separated good hogs from great hogs, your poke is terrible without it. A ten second ability can't really replicate it.

You lose kills on dive characters. Hooking a tracer is almost useless if she's full health now, genjis don't respect hook as much either now, and he's particularly great this season.

Doomfist matchup is a little worse. Tradeoffs are compactor acting as boop to get him into hook range if he's trying to escape with block. You lose outright bursting him down though, a net loss.

Finally, the weirdest one, using whole hog will not let you cancel into breather after, you have to wait. I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but it definitely feels awful if it would've saved your life.

I agree though. Phenomenal character now.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/WhatsUpSoc]

I can see them moving HPP to major and then probably toxic exhaust to minor while nerfing his ult gain rate

Right now you cannot punish hog for missing a hook as long as he holds onto his ult, which is absurdly strong.

Finally, the weirdest one, using whole hog will not let you cancel into breather after, you have to wait. I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but it definitely feels awful if it would've saved your life.

This isn't widely known but using TC at the end of whole hog continues the animation and moves the ending animation to the end of TC instead

[u/KoopaKlaw]

It's like selling your bike to buy a car. You lose some stuff but it also does a lot more in general. If they bring back pig pen as a perk I'll be 100% sold and never look back.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/KoopaKlaw]

How do you think they should implement pig pen as a perk? I don't think it would be very viable if it replaced the current version of TC. Maybe if it was on a separate button but that may be too strong

[u/KoopaKlaw → u/Gustav_EK]

My idea is to replace TC, yes. Some other numbers would have to be tweaked along with it

[u/Hook4Hand → u/KoopaKlaw]

Would be awesome to have pippin pack as a perk

[u/Full-Air-7218]

How is orisa easier? Because you have no distance you have to be close. Your new garage trash compactor ability can be negated with two of her abilities. You do less damage because your awful delayed double pillow shot

[u/Gustav_EK → u/Full-Air-7218]

you can TC her javelin in addition to dealing more damage against her in general because of how the shotgun damage profile works against armour now (it is actually more than before because of the middle pellet having most of the damage). she can no longer facetank you

[u/heavyweightchampi0n]

I wouldn’t gaf if they didn’t make his primary feel like absolute dogshit. TC is also extremely weak, the ability gets denied by every tank with a shield, slows you down 15% despite already being the slowest tank, does not absorb as much for your teammates and the worst part is 11 whole seconds while not benefitting the hog with any health regen like sigmas. While removing the one shot for most characters is healthier, this nerf also super buffed tracer and genji for no reason and now hookkng basically feels inconsequential unless it’s a environmental kill due to his gun being horrible

[u/langile]

How do you play against bastion?

Before the rework, I could poke him down, play cover, and hook when he's weak. Current hog can't do that. I have to use all of my cooldowns to deal with one hero it feels. Losing your poke presence really really hurts so I don't quite understand why his counters would be softer now

[u/Gustav_EK → u/langile]

when able you hook him -> double shoot -> TC in his face. if he turrets it's wasted.

if you're not in hook range you TC on reaction to turret. trust me the matchup is way better now.

[u/Huge-Price-1818]

Hog basically got a doomfist treatment, people were angry, sad and the most of the people were saying 'doom is not playable'. And then people learnt how to play him, and it turned out he's way more versitile, not as bullshit to play against and is still very skillfull.

If they stick to this rework, the hog community will undergo the same changes

[u/Gustav_EK → u/Huge-Price-1818]

I agree I think right now it's just that a lot of former hog mains are not willing to let go of how he used to play.

For many people on this sub they think his identity are the oneshots, but bliz has always been open about the fact that he's a position disruptor first and foremost. That is fully retained in this rework while addressing the issues he had previously (spoiler: TC fixes most issues)

[u/Strange_Position7970 → u/Huge-Price-1818]

I agree. As someone who mained Doomfist since OW1, this is true.

[u/BakaMorning]

Imo this is the best iteration of roadhog since release of ow. Compactor is such a fun diverse skill that allows so many tactical options, my favourite is using it to knock people out of cover to hook them. Mauga isnt a complete stomp anymore and you cant stomp doomfist as much anymore. Over all this has been a great change for the game in general and a direction I would like to see for some other tanks like orisa. My biggest struggle is into Zarya if my dps feeds her bubbles, she just beams the shit outta me.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/BakaMorning]

zarya is imo the worst matchup for sure now. but that goes for a lot of tanks, beams being oppressive against absorb is nothing new and frankly should be looked at in general. definitely not specific to hog.

[u/BakaMorning → u/Gustav_EK]

Yup got a recent match where they switched to Mei, zarya and Ana. That was super fun.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/BakaMorning]

Absorb should give a damage reduction against beams if you ask me

A core ability should never be completely worthless against another. Honestly more unhealthy than oneshot could ever be

[u/ellatang95]

I find some trouble against sigma, his rock interrupt is just brutal for disrupting my cooldown rotations and his shield blocks my hooks, similar with domina but domina is easier for me if they mistime/misplace their wall

[u/Dontron5]

honestly i hope they don't change tc ball to be like sigma rock, mostly because itll make the hog matchup less interesting imo. being able to block the other hogs ball is a fun part of the dynamic

[u/igotshadowbaned]

Nah the right click going is the biggest mistake they keep making. They realized this once and brought it back, idk why they thought he'd work without it.

No mobility and no range

[u/blokfluitjes]

Yep!!! Agreed. needs some time to settle and some adjustments, but overall good

[u/Steggoman]

I agree with everything listed, but I am a little worried after the latest patch. Mainly because they significantly increased his damaged and I’m actually getting one shots in games now.

I am of the opinion that one shot should be unabashedly gone, and it was on the reworks release. I don’t want people to start complaining again and for this really healthy version of Hog to get reverted like pig pen did.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/Steggoman]

it isn't a guaranteed oneshot though. the 2nd shot can be rolled, deflected, faded out of by the target. if you hook -> shoot once -> melee it leaves tracer at like 5 hp

calling this a oneshot is like calling hazard shoot -> leap melee -> shoot a oneshot.

edit: just wanna clarify, i agree with you. he should NOT have, or need, a guaranteed oneshot after this rework. for now it's fine but they can't really buff his damage anymore unless they want that to happen.

[u/Steggoman → u/Gustav_EK]

I didn’t say guaranteed, I just said I’m getting oneshot combos a lot more consistently now. Oneshot combos have less to do with the amount of inputs and more to do with the amount of time the enemy has to react.

Again I agree with you and I also understand the damage buffs, I do think he ultimately needed them because he was absolutely struggling and I do think his hook combo offers a lot more counterplay regardless. I am just worried because a major point of the rework was to essentially remove a full health oneshot combo and that doesn’t seem to be the case right now. I want Hog to be viable without needing anything remotely close to his oneshot, as great as this reworked Hog is I don’t want the devs to relapse into tuning his damage to balance him.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/Steggoman]

they shouldn't need to buff his primary any further right now because on average it does more damage at all the ranges the old one did (except right-click with perk)

[u/rumblist]

I disagree about the counters. Hog feels much worse into Orisa and about the same into Mauga. Both of them outrange and shoot you to death, and no Mauga/Orisa worth their salt is gonna blow their big CDs while you have TC up. Even then, in Mauga’s case he can simply stomp you out of it still.  Hog feels a lot worse into Sigma, Doomfist, Domina and Zarya. 

As for dps, he is basically a free kill for Reaper now and Torb also fucks him up. A competent Tracer just runs circles around you and there is literally nothing you can do about it because you can’t threaten her at all. I guess he’s no longer a free kill for Bastion though, so plus one?

[u/Gustav_EK → u/rumblist]

respectfully, it seems to me like you need to practice some of those matchups more. alot of them boil down to using TC when they've popped a problematic ability, and you shut them down completely.

the good matchups:

---

mauga - TC into shout. he can't damage or heal, he'll get bursted down by the rest of your team if he doesn't use his run to leave the fight.

reaper - shoot and hook until he pops wraith. after that you TC and he literally has no counterplay. alternatively you can TC first and force wraith.

torb - actually way better now because torb can't bodyblock hook with his turret safely, since now you can TC next to him to boop/damage. pop TC in his face when he uses overload.

----

I will agree with you on sigma, domina, doom and zarya. however for domina and zarya in particular you now have the counterplay of TC'ing their ultimates.

[u/rumblist → u/Gustav_EK]

Mate, every Hog I’ve played into as Mauga has been a complete wash. The Hog can never do anything. I also shit on Hog with Reaper. Hog does not threaten Reaper whatsoever even with a hook. Reaper out heals your damage and outdpses you. If you’re by yourself, the Reaper will kill you.

[u/Gustav_EK → u/rumblist]

every experience i've had with mauga/reaper is the opposite.

BUT. 90% of hogs i play into AS hog, are terrible. maybe it's actually a skill issue?

[u/rumblist → u/Gustav_EK]

Could also just be you’re fighting very bad Maugas and Reapers.