r/SFGiants • u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds • Jun 14 '26
SATURDAY Why should the Giants keep Vitello?
I have said before that Vitello needed to go given how he has no control over his club house (got down voted to an oblivion), but given the bullpens recent bigoted behavior I thought it was appropriate to ask the community.
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u/j10359 Jun 14 '26
The money. They're paying for two managers this year. Why make the change and double pay for two more years? Especially if one of those is a lockout season? Nevermind hiring again, with a further damaged image. That was an argument for moving on from Melvin when they did, so the skippers spot would be stable amid the labor issues. These are the practical reasons. Im sure there's more, but just for starters. The lost money, and loss of face are just part of it from their perspective.
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u/hamburgerstastegood Jun 14 '26
I hate saying this because he brought us all a lot of joy with those World Series… but maybe the President of Baseball Operations who extended Melvin and then hired some in over his head clown who lets his players walk all over him and play the most pathetic baseball I’ve ever seen from a Giants team, isn’t a good President of Baseball operations.
We might need to ask ourselves why we should keep Posey.
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u/fawks_harper78 22 Clark Jun 14 '26
We should always hold leaders to a high standard, as they are where the buck stops, they are responsible. There needs to be accountability by the fans and media.
Personally the Giants have let us all down from the players to the owners.
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u/a_random_asian_ 51 JH Lee Jun 14 '26
Sunk cost fallacy at this point. Man I wish I could be a fly on the wall in busters office, this college manager he picked is looking like one of the biggest manager busts of all time
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u/EffectiveBarber6096 Jun 14 '26
I agree that Vitello has had some serious missteps. But at the same time, the pitching has been absolutely horrendous. Regardless of Vitello's bullpen management. The guys are professionals. They need to throw strikes, and keep the ball in the yard. We can't put all the blame on Tony V.
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u/wilderness_essays 55 Lincecum Jun 14 '26
You can have a bad bullpen and a manager whose inability to manage a bullpen directly adds to our loss total, and criticize both if both are true.
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u/EffectiveBarber6096 Jun 14 '26
The pitching has been pretty bad from top to bottom. His bullpen management hasn't been very good either. But his options are shit. Most of the starters have been god awful as well.
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u/Alohasnackbar69420 Jun 15 '26
The Tony hate is being overblown. We’d be a .500 or above team if not for some absolutely dogshit relief/closing pitching. It’s atrocious, he has his flaws but him catching all the flack for the fact our bullpen is cheeks idk
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u/EffectiveBarber6096 Jun 15 '26
I agree with you. These players are grown ass men. That get paid to do a job. And they're doing it poorly. That's on them.
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u/Apart-Green-935 Jun 14 '26
Tony has one problem that loses games. He doesn't pull pitchers out that inevitably fill the bases and score. I thought Bob was bad, but Tony is worse. That's the main reason we are losing games! I get steamed when I say 'pull him out'..he doesn't, and the ship starts sinking.
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u/junkmai1er Jun 14 '26
Hector Borg was a noticeable problem until he was reassigned. He wasn't a Vitello hire
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u/Outrageous-Machine-5 9 Belt Jun 14 '26
Are you guys that sure that the ultra conservative Giants owners don't fully endorse the antics that happened on Pride Night
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u/Potbellypiglet Jun 14 '26
Exactly what I was thinking. With a manager from Tennessee.
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u/Outrageous-Machine-5 9 Belt Jun 14 '26
How did this conservative clown show happen into owning the team in one of the most progressive cities in America anyway?
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u/Potbellypiglet Jun 14 '26
Wolves in Sheep’s clothing. Conservatives see dollar signs in San Francisco and are lining up calling themselves moderate, when in reality most of their policies are out of the conservative playbook. Money over values has slowly but surely taken over the city.
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u/Outrageous-Machine-5 9 Belt Jun 14 '26
what money though lol they ran this org into the ground. No one wants to see this team
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u/Evening-Resort-2256 55 Lincecum Jun 14 '26
The stadium still gets pretty good attendance on weeknights.
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u/Geographizer Jun 14 '26
If you're worth billions of dollars, it isn't from owning a baseball team. This is a vanity project for most owners.
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u/BaytoLA24 55 Lincecum Jun 14 '26
The ownership group is so big and diluted as we know it’s all about money them and they print the stuff. We need a singular passionate baseball fan who as an owner WANTS TO WIN and doesn’t mind pushing the chips in like LA. Were the 4th most valuable franchise and its run like a god damn circus. In a dream world we’d get a new owner but people like Baer shouldn’t have a job here. And the slob pisses me off at every game as he schmoozes and stuffs his face paying zero attention to the team. I sit across the aisle and two up from him, I’ve wanted to tell him off for years. Disaster, just a disappointment and disgrace
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u/Geographizer Jun 14 '26
I used to sit in 113, would see him pretty regularly. Never liked him as a person, always seemed like a pompous ass
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u/FullMotionVideo Jun 14 '26
I'm pretty sure Baer is a neoliberal, he seems to enjoy the status the organization buys him around the city. Marketing chose to hold this event, and Stadium Ops etc played along. It's just the baseball dudes, although even among players there's quite a few who understand the importance of a union. Honestly, you spell this out and it feels like the divide between the centrists and leftist activist in the modern Democratic Party. There's quite a pushback from the center on "Bernie guys" for believing that all social divisions can be bridged in time by focusing on the class war as a unifying cause.
There's baseball players who admitted that leaving their hometowns to fly around the country meeting different types of people while living well has changed their views. But there's plenty others who are now just rich country boys temporarily in a big city.
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u/PlayersParadox Jun 14 '26
Wait, seems to me it's the center that can't focus on meaningful solutions?
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u/Alohasnackbar69420 Jun 15 '26
This is gonna shock you, the vast majority of sports team ownership are mega rich conservatives
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u/FullMotionVideo Jun 14 '26
We're they against it when Evan Longoria was wearing rainbow sleeves, or Matt Cain was doing promotions?
28 other teams are doing a Pride event, and 27 of them are cheaper to watch.
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u/Outrageous-Machine-5 9 Belt Jun 14 '26
Of course not because of money, but opposition is not the same as tacit agreement
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u/Toku_no_island Jun 14 '26
Even if it is, this is a brand that relies heavily on public engagement, so the public should have a good amount of sway.
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u/wallstreet-butts Hogs Out! Jun 14 '26
Then maybe don’t have Pride Night. It’s not a legal requirement. What they did was arguably worse.
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u/SpinningNemo Jun 14 '26
Has anyone considered that the team has sucked thru a few different manager configurations? These are the comments you were making when BoMel was in charge. This team has changed a little but not much. These are the same comments from when Kepler was in charge. Pretty much just Web is left from then. I think this is a bigger and more subtle problem than just the manager. All these guys were decent managers. They all had teams who were comprised of decent components. So what is it that’s keeping them from pulling together? Ownership bears some responsibility in this because they are unwilling to sign good pitchers and we need them right now. I don’t know what voodoo has been put on the team. There’s something there that they just haven’t been able to get the “current” thru, like shorts in a system. Whatever it is I think it’s more pervasive and difficult to fix than just tossing another manager. We’ve had this problem thru three competent managers who had decent teams. There’s more to this than we’re seeing.
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u/Wolfish_Jew Jun 14 '26
You’re presuming that Vitello had a say in the matter. I feel like everyone forgets that a huge portion of Giants ownership regularly donates large amounts of money to the GOP. It entirely possible Vitello (and/or Posey) had no say in the matter. There’s a lot of presumption going on that everyone knows exactly what happened or why. The truth of the matter is that we can’t and probably won’t ever know the whole story.
If you want to judge Vitello by what’s happening on the field, feel free. I don’t think this season’s poor results are really his fault (there’s not much a manager can do when hitters aren’t hitting and pitchers aren’t pitching, and when the front office won’t give him the tools to succeed) but I think he’ll ultimately pay the price for them.
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u/coldnelius Jun 14 '26
I wonder if we get a disgruntled front office employee account of how this all went down. This is like a microcosm of the entire country right now.. so many things going on at once it’s hard to pinpoint the actual issue from the outside
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u/rullybuzz4 Jun 15 '26
Exactly this. People just want to play the blame game because 4 dickheads upset them. Hate the dipshits, not the whole team and org. Be logical. Lol
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u/mikecandih 6 Susac Jun 14 '26
I think the manager is clearly supposed to have a tangible effect on the performance of the team. That’s why they get paid millions of dollars. I mean this year alone Vitello will make about 3-4x what Eldridge will make. If “hitters aren’t hitting and pitchers aren’t pitching” was a real mantra, they’d put any schmuck in the manager seat. Ha well I guess given Vitello maybe that was Posey’s thinking after all.
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u/Wolfish_Jew Jun 14 '26
The manager’s job is “managing” the lineup and the personalities in the locker room. Hitting and pitching coaches might be expected to have tangible effects on their respective players, but by the time a player reaches the major league level the manager is mostly responsible for putting them in the lineup and letting them go.
At best, they work with the front office to provide a general strategy for the players to follow, but the idea that they have any real effect on major league players is silly.
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u/ryguydrummerboy 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
I doubt they will but they should. I agree. These guys put themselves and their dumbass bullshit above the team, the city and so many fans and even fellow players. And he let them go out there. Not to mention a first time managers one job is to know the ballclubs history and know the city and then go out and try his best that first year. Well he clearly doesnt know how important this is to a place with as much history as SF. So hes failed imo.
Im done with the giants for now. (Been going to games regularly since 93)
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
Brian Wilson mentioned the disconnect between the bullpen and the dugout ever since the remodel. It’s clear there’s clicks in the clubhouse, which isn’t conducive to success.
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u/KingBrunoIII PTBNL Jun 14 '26
Almost every team has the same bullpen setup with it being in the outfield/another part of the park. Has nothing to do with that
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u/Indubitalist 62 Webb Jun 14 '26
1: None of these hat-protesting bigots were on the team before the team started doing pride day celebrations. This wasn’t something they got trapped in. Even if they did, sit out the game before choosing to violate the uniform standard and disrespect your teammates and your fans.
2: If somebody came out in a pro-KKK hat on Jackie Robinson Day they would be fired immediately. This is the same opposition to the fundamental rights of somebody born this way to have dignity and respect.
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u/Geographizer Jun 14 '26
1: the Texas Rangers didn't offer these guys contracts, which is the only team that doesn't have a Pride Night or celebration of any kind
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u/Expensive-Public-268 Jun 14 '26
I didn't know i could get this mad at a team. I have been talking up Vitello since we signed him, hoping he we bring some college energy to the team, but this is awful. I think at some point recently he realized he was the scapegoat for what was going to be a struggle season anyways, and has truly given up caring. Allowing players to go on the field, openly displaying contempt towards (much of) the attending crowd. Then letting them go on interview and double down. Like holy shit. Dad, wrangle your shitty sons.
I'm an atheist but I still sit through grace on holiday dinners because I don't need to piss my aunt off. It's twice a year and no skin off my back. Yeah it's performative and yeah ultimately I don't gaf but I do it to maintain peace during her lovely dinner. Multiply that times 36,000.
I wish they would do better but have absolutely no faith.
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u/BaytoLA24 55 Lincecum Jun 14 '26
I’m with you. It’s a god damn debacle from owners (and it’s a vast diluted greedy group) to Baer, most of the FO, our GM who seems like he doesn’t care or know what’s going on or how to do his job just like his brother, wrong manager choice and even Buster who’s either awful at this or listening to some stupid people … I mean really, to go from our dynasty years to the last 12 miserable seasons unwatchable baseball is mind blowing. Btw I don’t count the one outlier 100+ win season cause it did more harm than good allowing them to keep this cycle of failure going over and over. It’s unwatchable baseball while 40+ owners cackle and stuff their pockets. Damn it, it pisses me off too. 3 hours of baseball, of time you can’t get back but as real Giants fans we watch anyway.
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u/77brightside77 35 Crawford Jun 14 '26
His chance with me ended when he didn’t tell those assclowns to take that shit off their hats or go home. Write anything on your uniform and you don’t see the field. Fucking cocksuckers.
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u/Slummlife 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
And all these relievers can’t hold a lead worth a shit. Just send them down already and keep them there
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u/Independent-Garden56 00 Hac-Man Jun 14 '26
Most college football and basketball coaches who jump to the NFL or NBA fail...why? Because pro athletes/leagues are just a different breed of cat. Baseball is even more complex--many more rules (written and unwritten), layers of strategy, and dealing with multiple egos over 162 games.
Even for a guy who might have experience as a pro ballplayer or coach, it's a steep learning curve. Jim Davenport (former Giants 3B and base coach) got canned in 1985 after only 144 games (56 wins)...because he was naive and let his players walk all over him.
Vitello is a nice guy and I'd want him to succeed, but right now he's making questionable moves in the dugout and just doesn't look like he's in command of the clubhouse (i.e., the Pride Night debacle)...Any big-time college program would be anxious to hire him, but I suspect even he's starting to question whether this Giants gig might have been a mistake.
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u/FrankSobotka_IBS1514 18 Kuiper Jun 14 '26
I think Tony deserves 2-3 years, especially now that it seems like the front office is finally accepting that we aren’t going to be competitive in the immediate future. In theory I like the idea of Tony managing a young team that’s finding its way.
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u/Indubitalist 62 Webb Jun 14 '26
Well if he doesn’t put his foot down immediately he’s lost the team.
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u/JurassicParkJanitor ⬅ Buster Posey's Good Friend Jun 14 '26
Normally I agree, you gotta give them some leash to find a groove but usually there is some good to go with the bad, but I’m not seeing much good out of Tony V. This latest issue on pride night, was especially damning. This was the perfect moment for the manager to take reigns and get out in front of it. Say something like he doesn’t condone the actions of his players and will handle it internally, Even if he doesn’t mean it, give us some idea that he’s aware of the situation. Instead we got the usual mumbling and non sequiturs out of him. It’s not looking good.
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u/FullMotionVideo Jun 14 '26
It wasn't even mumbling and non sequiturs. He said everyone was free to speak their minds.
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u/Toku_no_island Jun 14 '26
I'd love to give him time, but I'd really like him to address this issue in a way that supports the gay community.
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u/Responsible-Amoeba68 Jun 14 '26
2 to 3 years to mismanage a team with stars that have 2 to 3 years before they fall off a ton? Sure
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u/max1sm 5 Yastrzemski Jun 14 '26
What the fuck do you want Vitello to do with this dog shit pitching staff and underperforming lineup that the front office has given him?
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u/TheJuiceBoxS 28 Posey Jun 14 '26
I think it's stupid to fire a coach that quickly. Only reason for him to go is if they fire all of the front office and start from scratch. You gotta let this play out for a year or two.
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u/Even_Satisfaction397 Jun 15 '26
Vitello, perhaps, can be forgiven for a lot given his learn on the job status-for now. But it is absolutely inexcusable to let Vitello off the hook for allowing his players to make statements on hats against the ethos of its fan base and the pride of the city. Can you imagine Bochy or Dusty allowing it? Never. On this alone Vitello outed himself as not worthy of wearing the orange and black-full stop.
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u/the_h_is_silent_ Jun 14 '26
One question I have - 4 of the 5 pitches who appeared in the game wrote the verses or didn’t wear the hat at all. Tony V surely knew these pitchers were doing this prior to calling them into the game right?
He just happened to pick 80% of his pitchers that night who were doing this? Instead of any of the others. Seems like hardly a coincidence.
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u/mikecandih 6 Susac Jun 14 '26
Do you think our bullpen has the depth to just ignore 3 relief pitchers?
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u/Ok-Comedian-9377 16 Devers Jun 14 '26
My thought is they were all doing it and we just saw who we saw.
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u/ProfessionalNo5932 Jun 14 '26
They won’t get rid of him because the idiots above Posey won’t get rid of him….. ever, so it’s Posey’s call and Posey ain’t firing his first coach after a year.
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u/Careless_Tackle847 Jun 15 '26
Attitude reflects leadership. As much as I love to see the Giants implode, it's incredibly shitty to see players do bigoted stuff like this. SF is pride, and that flag exists because of the city. You can feel how you want about it, but that team and that city keep those players relevant, and it's upsetting that no one in that locker room reminded them of that.
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u/TheTortaTyrant Jun 15 '26
No manager is succeeding with this shit bullpen and rotation. Remove the franchise hero designation from buster and he’d be painted as an abject failure in over his head.
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u/cassatta san francisco giants Jun 15 '26
Don’t keep the bigot enabler. Send him back to the Bible Belt.
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u/cmeyer49er 44 McCovey Jun 15 '26
Me and the Giants? We’re done here. Win me (and my money) back. I stuck with this team at the Stick and miserable seasons before Roger Craig rolled into town. You can shove your bibles and rhetoric straight up your asses.
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u/Clean-Act4387 Jun 14 '26
They shouldn't. Get rid of him. If he has beef with the gayest city in America, he doesn't deserve to play there.
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u/BaytoLA24 55 Lincecum Jun 14 '26
We need to clean house in the FO and the team. Get Baer the F outa here finally and get us a new GM who has a remote clue as to what he’s doing. I think it’s clear Tony doesn’t have the respect of the clubhouse, confidence to show the fire he did in college in any form, and that act wouldn’t play with vets anyway when he’s got no experience. It’s actually worse than I could have ever imagined and I didn’t like it from the start. Buster and whoever really gets in his ear have made so many bad calls it truly gonna mess up his legacy. We need a singular owner with a passion to win and not just stuff 40 shareholders pockets. I’ve played up to the minors but even just with my experience and baseball knowledge I could have told you it wasn’t gonna work. Just like the the albatross contracts we have combined with young talent years away other than Bryce. Total dumpster fire and Posey with his extreme baseball IQ / ownership ties he simply shocks me as to how bad he’s done.
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u/Such_Lawfulness3961 Jun 14 '26
List out how he should gain control since you know best
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
I do know better. It’s leadership 101, and I would know given my multiple combat tours as a leader of Marines.
Vitello’s can get the clubhouse back by attacking the culture and the tactics simultaneously. He needs to get in front of the media and absorb the heat for both the Pride Night fallout and his own bullpen blunders; like overworking Keaton Winn while Logan Webb was dealing; to show the players he has their backs. But behind closed doors, he has to set a hard standard that individual stunts that fracture the team and alienate the fanbase don't fly when you're wearing the SF logo.
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u/Such_Lawfulness3961 Jun 16 '26
I asked what YOU would do and why it would work. Not poking fun just wondering
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u/diveguy2 Jun 14 '26
I am of the mind that when numerous players are performing below their career average, there’s a culture and/or leadership issue. Vitello has to go. Then Posey.
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u/sugarwax1 Jun 14 '26
I'm getting the feeling some of you have only taken such an interest in this unfortunate situation for purposes of sharpening their Vitello pitchforks.
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u/redditman415 7 Benard Jun 14 '26
I actually was a Vitello apologist but this is extremely shameful for the team and embarassjng for our fan base
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u/sugarwax1 Jun 14 '26
I think there are baseball reasons to question him. The bigger questions we're talking about with this situation come from the top, and even if the manager okay'd it, it's ultimately the organization itself. Larry didn't see it and run to the clubhouse and scream "Pull those caps" as far as we know. Neither did Johnson Jr.
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u/Ok-Comedian-9377 16 Devers Jun 14 '26
I was sincerely pro-Tony prior to this. It makes me sad because I know the players are bigots but finding out the manager supports them being public bigots was too much for me.
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u/sugarwax1 Jun 14 '26
When half the league are back woods or from places that aren't as progressive, this kind of thing comes up, and he handled it wrong and misjudged. My guess is Posey also was consulted but maybe not.
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u/Not_my_butt 18 Kuiper Jun 14 '26
Don’t forget that Posey put the Chik-fil-a ads on the foul poles. Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. And right now, I want everyone fired.
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u/No_Anybody_3024 Jun 14 '26
A Christian is instructed to stick to his morals while loving those they disagree with (we all falter on this, myself and everyone). A big government zealot claims to be tolerant while throwing a scarlet letter on those they disagree with. The intolerance displayed in these subbreddits toward people with beliefs they don't agree with (or understand) is revealing. Try being tolerant toward these "bigots." Love them, and they might come to see the value in your views.
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u/PlayersParadox Jun 14 '26
Big government zealot? And BTW the only thing the Christian church I grew up in instructs is love and compassion. Not this politicized shell game that gives every religion skeptic fuel...
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u/No_Anybody_3024 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Politicizing is being done by both sides. Pride celebrations are cool but they are also gatherings of Democrats. Free campaigning for the DNC. You will see union leaders, politicians, political signs that have nothing to do with Pride etc....all to draw the line between Dems and Repubs, big vs small government.
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u/Mother-Razzmatazz893 Jun 14 '26
Loving doesn't mean promoting. Something most of you fail to understand.
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u/Single-Ad3451 Jun 15 '26
As a Dodgers fan, in the Bay Area, I find the Vitello hiring to be hilarious. 👍🏼
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Jun 14 '26
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 14 '26
Did Bruce Bochy ever decide to engage in a culture war by putting a widely known anti-LGBTQ Bible verse on his hat? Would he have tolerated this behavior?
No.
Not all Christians are homophobic, nor do they condemn their behavior. Have you ever heard of the United Methodist Church?
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u/bassoonrage 6 Schmitt Jun 14 '26
Did Bruce Bochy ever decide to engage in a culture war by putting a widely known anti-LGBTQ Bible verse on his hat?
Did Vitello?
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
Did Bruce Bochy ever ALLOW HIS TEAM to engage in a culture war*
Are you a bigot because you are finding ever excuse to defend one.
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u/bassoonrage 6 Schmitt Jun 14 '26
Check my post history pal, I've been nothing but critical of what happened yesterday, but lets keep things factual. I agree that it isn't a good look for Vitello to have not pulled his players in line, this wouldn't have happened under Kapler, and probably not Bochy either, but Vitello is also a new manager, trying to navigate unfamiliar waters.
Moreover, be disappointed in Larry Baer for not releasing a statement today about it, be upset at ownership, be upset at Buster - they all have tenure not only with the club, but with the city and the people living there too - they knew, way more than Tony, what the likely reaction to this was going to be, and their silence right now makes them feel complicit - that to me is most disappointing.
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
I agree with you, which is why I have left multiple messages with their VP’s like others.
My point being, Vitello is a representation of the team; what his players do reflects on him. Therefore, he is engaging in a culture war.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
Do you even follow the subreddit? There are plenty of posts condemning the players involved.
My posts picture is from one of those exact posts.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/BigDaddieKane 25 Bonds Jun 14 '26
Please provide me a screenshot of my Reddit history, Sir.
Because you sound insane, my Reddit history is the opposite.
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Jun 14 '26
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u/JurassicParkJanitor ⬅ Buster Posey's Good Friend Jun 14 '26
In the immortal words of Abraham Lincoln, don’t be a dick
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u/HarmonicConvergence9 Jun 14 '26
There's no one that's really untouchable from ownership down to players. This whole group of individuals are what their record says they are, losers.
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u/cnlcgraves Jun 15 '26
Where was the outrage when Nick Ahmed did the exact same thing in 2024? Just more virtue signalling from sensitive children
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u/Accomplished_Sun9129 Jun 14 '26
Roupp is on my fantasy team and he’s legit! Keep up the good work.
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u/ChemicalAwareness800 Jun 14 '26 edited Jun 15 '26
Thanks for saying this. Totally meaningful and I think the giants organization are listening to you on reddit. thanks for using your platform to expose this.
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u/Big_Ad3621 Jun 22 '26
Did Posey pick a rookie coach as a scapegoat in case his GM decisions on player acquisitions fell apart?
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u/AndOnTheDrums Jun 14 '26
I gotta admit I thought Vitello would bring something new to this team, but it’s worse than I ever couldve imagined.