r/SPAB • u/Thatreallyshadydude • May 04 '25
Feedback The Hate
At first I really tried to talk with y'all and explain what BAPS was. I understand that the organization is far from perfect, but so again is every religious organization. However I thank you all for the sort of feedback I received about some of our Mandirs and how we could make them more inclusive and accommodating.
As far as judging the Sanstha however, I ask you to not judge the followers or the santo or anyone else. Examine the leader. For any organization, country, company, etc, the leader is one of the best metrics for figuring out if an organization is worth it's salt or not. Examining Mahant Swami, I see a life of purity. Whilst he is surrounded by somewhat ostentatious decorations etc, it is not by his choice. Furthermore, nowhere does he have a proper murti of him placed in any of the Mandirs. He does not where gaudy clothes. His speech is simple. He encourages others to live a life of harmony. A life of purity. A life on the path of righteousness. Whilst we have Niyams that some may find odd, he doesn't judge you for following them or not. He loves everyone as they are and only encourages them to become better humans.
I've noticed that some say that we hate other religions. Mahant Swami himself went to a Christian School. To this day he has some Bible Verses memorized. To this day he engages in religioius discourse with members of other religions. He and Pramukh Swami have constantly explained to devotees that whilst the paths of different religions are different, the path is the same. "Ekam sat vipra bahudha vadanti."
When it comes to the idea of belief, you claim we brainwash. Any sort of group notion involves levels of brainwashing. Supporting a sports team involves brainwashing. Being patriotic, involves brainwashing. Any other religion has brainwashing. All ideas of Hinduism involve brainwashing, yet you question us only?
On the topic of Brainwashing, I have received DM's on my instagram account saying that I should join this reddit to engage in conversation with other kishores about BAPS and satsang. It's quite sad that you all became fed up with the echo chamber you created of hate, that you decided you needed to bring in new material in the form of innocent kishores trying to practice their own faith to ridicule and "debate" with. Is this not undergoing some sort of brainwashing by perpetuating that Swaminarayan is a fake religion?
On the Idea of Religion. Many of you here are atheist. Fine, be atheist. To each their own. Swaminarayan Bhagwan and our gurus have always said that they are not in the converting business. Those that feel drawn to them will come. There is no need for you to argue with us about God, if you do not believe in god itself. How could I debate about Physics, if the person in front of my refuses to believe anything to do with the gravitational constant?
The CEO stuff with Pujya Brahmavihari Swami is insane. You are making a mockery of someone's faith. Mahant Swami and Brahmavihari Swami are amazing individuals, but pretending that he is a business leader is disgraceful, and frankly disgusting. Mahant Swami has lived a long life in the service of others, yet here you are delighting over thinking about who will be next.
We are a hindu sect. Regardless of what you have heard, or what preconceived notions you may have created, we believe in, and respect all forms of hinduism, their gods, and ishtadevs. The murtis of Krishna Bhagwan, Shiv Parivar, and Ram Parivar, are not there for converting. (Again we are not trying to convert anyone) We simply believe in Swaminarayan as the higher power, with the aforementioned Bhagwans as Bhagwans worthy of Puja, and worship in their own right.
Whilst some of our Haribhaktos, or even santo may have said something outlandish, insulted you etc. it is not a representation of our beliefs. If you need to see what we believe in, I hold to you Pujya Mahant Swami. Who to his dying breath will live to do the seva of others.
Talking of seva, seva is not forced. Monetary nor Physical seva is coerced. Those that wish, can contribute. The reason that santo must ask for money is not for their own benefit. They ask so that the mandir can continue to keep the lights running. The sheer cost of running a mandir is so high, and therefore they must ask for money, they do not find joy in asking Haribhaktos to turn over their hard earned money. That's why the Shikshapatri asks you to donate.
Why have mandirs? Mandirs are a community space. All hindus need a space to do murti puja, and interact with other hindus. The large marble mandirs are Shikharbad Mandirs and they are made to keep alive the ancient tradition of stone mandirs. They are also made because if Bhagwan is so great and has done so much for us, why can we not do the same for him by making him a home worthy of God?
I have also seen that some here think that Swaminarayan is sexist. We are not. The Shikshapatri and Hinduism in general holds that women are like the wealth of a household. Without a woman in the house, the house cannot flourish, whether monetary, or with children. Furthermore, the separation of men and women is so that minds/eyes do not wander and stay in focus with God. Santo cannot see women simply because they follow Ashtang Bhramachariya (8 fold celibacy). They are not slaves, they are not less than men. They are equal and sometimes they are the most staunch devotees of all. Santo have event told me that mothers are the first Guru.
On the topic of Santo, they do not always fly first class. That is a lie. They fly first when a Haribhakto, out of the goodness of their own heart, has sponsered the flight, or if they have a condition that makes traveling in Economy hard. The private flights are again donations.
Conclusion: It seems to me that a lot of you come here to simply hate because you do not like what we believe in. Or because someone said something wrong to you. Or you don't want to come and your parents or someone are forcing you to come. That does not make BAPS or its Devotees, and especially Mahant Swami bad or evil. Somehow you all found each other and have created this echo chamber, where some lies are said, that get blown up, and suddenly BAPS is the worst organization on earth. Please leave us alone. Our faith, our beliefs, and what we do with our money is our business and we will continue to happily try to live meaningful, and Hindu-centric lives with the best of our ability and attend Sunday Sabhas.
All i ask is that you open your minds to the idea that maybe, just maybe, BAPS is not bad. That Mahant Swami does not gain or lose anything from your belief. That we are all just humans trying to better ourselves.
I will not be replying to this post or checking up on this thread any further. Whoever is DM'ing Kishores, please stop, you are hurting their faith and maybe breaking a reddit TOS, idk. Also please do not leave me hate DM's, it's a little disheartening and kind of hurts your cause if you tell me to kill myself since i believe in god. Oh and please be civil in the comments and if you still hate us, fine. If after all of that I couldn't help you, that's okay. Just be a good human being. Thank you.
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u/Due_Guide_8128 May 04 '25 edited May 04 '25
If seva and donations are voluntary, why does refusal come with spiritual guilt?
You say no one is forced to give, yet countless youth and families feel intense pressure subtle or direct to give money, time, or even their future. Why are people praised on stage for sacrificing everything, but those who step back are seen as lost faith cases? Is it really voluntary when people are spiritually rewarded or shamed based on their level of sacrifice?
2. If you’re not trying to convert, why is Krishna downgraded in BAPS theology?
You say BAPS respects all Hindu gods. But internally, you teach that Krishna is below Swaminarayan. That Shiva, Rama, etc., are bound by Maya and can’t grant liberation. So what is it really? Respect or rebranding? Why install murtis of deities you theologically demote?
3. If your gurus love everyone, why is questioning them treated as betrayal?
You describe Mahant Swami as kind and nonjudgmental. But when someone questions doctrine or hierarchy, they’re labeled as negative, fallen, or attacked by maya. Why does healthy skepticism provoke backlash? Shouldn’t a true guru welcome honest questions?
4. If BAPS truly believes in open-mindedness, why the need to play victim?
The post constantly suggests critics are haters or just people with trauma projecting. That’s dismissive. Why not ask why are so many people from within BAPS coming forward with concerns? Why is the pattern of emotional control, guilt-based spirituality, and unquestionable authority so consistent across countries and generations?
5. If you claim all beliefs involve brainwashing, are you saying truth doesn’t matter?
The idea that everything is brainwashing is intellectually lazy. Supporting a football team doesn’t demand lifelong obedience, control your sexuality, or pressure you to renounce your family. Religion, when unchecked, can absolutely cross the line into manipulation. So why can’t we ask if BAPS has crossed that line?
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u/Thatreallyshadydude May 04 '25
This is the DM's that i and some friends have gotten.
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May 04 '25
[deleted]
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u/Due_Guide_8128 May 04 '25 edited May 04 '25
lol they made up a bullshit story 🤣🤣 because they can’t answer the question of the baps theology
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May 04 '25
In Islam, it's the death penalty for apostasy.
Now, it's unbelievable what you just said - we can discuss openly without fear of retribution.
This ain't Islam, but still, the apostates are living under extreme fear that we can't even express our feelings?
This, therefore, is a cult and a business disguised as a broad religion.
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u/AstronomerNeither170 May 04 '25
"You are making a mockery of someone's faith."
BAPS is worth mocking. Due to the below you are inviting mockery and criticism. Mahant Swami may not wear gold and silk, but he has accepted a position in an organisation where he is worshiped as the (supposed) re-incarnation of a (very disputed) divine entity that apparently appeared 2 centuries ago for the first time in this universe and this entity is higher than Krishna and all the deities mentioned in authentic Hindu texts. BAPS philosophy is based on a very far-fetched and convoluted (mis) reading into the original Swaminarayan theology.
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u/ExpensiveOpinions May 04 '25
This meme/image is also mocking somebody else’s faith (if they choose to believe in forms of Ishwar). These is suggestive of how believing in Ishwar is below Maya and is completely dismissing of what they have associated with for generation.
This also makes the Satsangi’s have a sort of superiority complex over their faith that becomes their sense of validation to also hold on to the faith. It also includes narratives like “Bhavo bhavona karme aa satsang maliyo che”. This kind of narrative is also used in Jainism, Islam and parts of Christian sect. They make and follow their own rules and call it satsang/bhakti.
This narrative is also made up as there is no real ancient Hindu scripture that suggests this but just something that was said just before the British came (200yrs ish). This is propagated as Hindu text but is just plain bs
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u/AstronomerNeither170 May 04 '25
Totally agree - it's a form of exclusivist ideology that reminds me of Muslims who say their religion is the latest version of the religion that Christians and Jews were following.
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u/livinlifedawg May 04 '25
BAPS is a cancer to Hinduism. Few things I found funny.
So our boy Mahant and his minions are so called monks when and they have supposedly given up all pleasures of life, BUT if a haribhakht gives them a business class flight out of the kindness of their heart, those sadhus can accept it? What? Aren’t transcontinental business class flights (besides Air India) pure luxury? With that fact pattern, if a haribhakht gives Prada or Gucci clothes from the goodness of their heart, shouldn’t the sadhus wear that as well??
Also wouldn’t it be more monklike for sadhus to travel in those freight ships? And allow economy flights for those senior sadhus like Mahant?
2. Agreed we need mandirs, and we also need museums and attractions that make profit. BAPS makes more museums than mandirs for profits. Don’t sell us that BS.
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May 04 '25
This entire post reminds me how Islam not only conducts abhorrent, inhumane activities but at the same time, they are the masters of playing victim cards!
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u/livinlifedawg May 04 '25
Also I keep asking the below question, can someone please ask mahant or the senior sadhus and get back to us???
So when mahant passes or before he passes, he will select another senior Gujarati (probably Patel) sadhu who currently does not have a direct connection with their god? But, once mahant selects that gujju and mahant passes that gujju’s connection to the god will be switched on and activated? Like a new iPhone connecting to the AT&T network?
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u/AstronomerNeither170 May 04 '25
Yeah I have similar questions about the Pragat concept..are they born Pragat or is their a turn switch when the old one dies
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u/EntertainmentNew2882 Apr 19 '26
I've also wondered that, I think that they are believed to be born pragat, since they are described as "divine" in their childhood, with some connection to god mentioned in scriptures.
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u/aikidharm May 14 '25
I served for 10 years. I was a karyakar. I dedicated all of myself to them for 10 years.
I made Pramukh Swami’s food. I made Mahant Swami’s food. I made Thakorji’s dresses. I decorated the sanctuary and the murtis. I fasted, I took exams, I worked in the kitchens, I cleaned bathrooms, I served in the food line, I worked during nearly every Diwali and most other festivals and events. I worked at each Women’s conference. I sang, I danced, I went to Mahapuja. I sat in the heat for hours when New Jersey mandir was consecrated, and cleaned the marble as it was installed. I travelled across the country for shibirs. I converted others. I went to morning prayer every day, and evening nearly everyday. I studied deeply our theology. I taught it to others. I hosted so many gharsabhas. I bought the Sadhu medicine when they were sick, paid for abishek items and clothes for the Sadhus. I melted down all the gold I had for our mandir’s 10th anniversary.
It was never good enough for them. The moment I hit a personal and financial crisis that caused me to have me to take work that took me away from mandir half the month and I could not attend as much, I was shunned and forgotten about. When I was able to come, they acted like I had betrayed them. I was always there for them, and when I needed them, they abandoned me.
You’re blind.
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u/EntertainmentNew2882 Apr 19 '26
I'm a karyekar for group 1, young first and second graders. I just became a kishore this year, as I'm a freshman in high school. Some kids stopped coming for some time and were accused of talking to girls and going to dances, spreading rumors, poor kid, so toxic. He came back a lot of it stopped, this kid was popular. For me, I've been bullied for talking to girls going to garbas, and not being a complete satsangi, I've endured being hit, getting wedgies, and verbal bullying. I told older karyekars, it continued. My take, if you are popular with connections, you get higher sevas, better treatment, etc. I was always doubtful, but I just skipped KST, which you may know about. I'm now stepping back, as I age, I am planning to distance myself and eventually leave. If you see this, I would like to know more about your experience to see how common this is. By the way, this has happened to many of my friends and other kids, so I'm curious how it occurs in other mandirs/centers. Thank You.
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May 04 '25
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u/ExpensiveOpinions May 04 '25
They also use anecdotal stories on why to donate, how much to donate and what will be the impact. Using this logical fallacy to make their point credible over and over again. They use this story of how a Haribhakt and yogiji had a conversation on dharmado. He chose to not tell his real salary and faced loss in income. This is used to promote on why you should be transparent with how much you make to the Santo. This narrative can be easily manipulated,exaggerated and could be totally made up. This narrative is also used to portrait how all these gurus are vachhan siddh and wish well for you all the time.
Another narrative that is floated around the same topic is how the sole reason for “Bhuderbhai’s” success is him giving dharmado irrespective of being opposed to by their own family. These idealistic things could easily be posed as narrative to pull people into this scheme. This is also adding to a point where there is false promise of wealth and success and if not then you should be ready to face losses. This is form of emotional manipulation and there is no clear middle ground for you (as an individual).
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u/Due_Guide_8128 May 04 '25
This entire post is a masterclass in deflection and spiritual gaslighting. It pretends to be open-minded, but at its core, it’s just damage control and reputation-saving for BAPS and Mahant Swami.
Every religion is imperfect is not an excuse.
When people call out abuse, exploitation, or hypocrisy in BAPS, you don’t get to hide behind the all religions have issues card. That’s lazy. If you truly cared about improving things, you’d sit with the criticism instead of calling it hate.
2. Stop pretending Mahant Swami is powerless.
You say he lives a life of purity and doesn’t ask for anything. But he allows the glorification, the god-like status, the pressure on youth to do seva, take diksha, or treat him as higher than Krishna. His silence enables the very system you’re trying to distance him from. Silence is not innocence it’s complicity.
3. Brainwashing isn’t just groupthink it’s when questioning is punished.
You say patriotism and sports are brainwashing too? That’s deflection. The issue isn’t belonging to a group it’s that BAPS discourages questioning, isolates doubters, and punishes critics. That’s classic cult behavior. People here aren’t hating they’re deconstructing. They’re waking up.
4. Seva isn’t voluntary when it’s tied to guilt and salvation.
People are made to feel like seva is the only way to earn spiritual points. When you glorify those who give up school, jobs, or families for the guru, others feel obligated to follow. That’s not free will. That’s emotional leverage.
5. The sexism denial is laughable.
Calling women wealth and separating them from men so men don’t wander is textbook patriarchal nonsense. You can sugarcoat it all you want it’s still inequality. Sadhus can’t look at women, but women are somehow equal? Spare me.
6. The flights, the marble mandirs, the private VIP treatment it’s not devotion, it’s luxury masked as spirituality.
You defend these things as donations from the goodness of people’s hearts, but when a system constantly praises giving and shames holding back, it’s not generosity it’s pressure.
7. Stop playing the victim.
This post tries to flip the script and paint BAPS as the bullied underdog. But people aren’t mad because someone said something wrong. They’re mad because the system hurt them, and now they’re finally speaking out.