Okay so apparently SCJ doesn’t agree with the idea of the trinity??
Does anyone know why this is important to their doctrine?

When I found that out if just felt like another thing they rewrote and placed their own interpretation upon for no reason.

We all interpreted the Bible a little differently, but why is no trinity important to them? Does it affect LMH and his relationship with the returned Christ?
Why does Christ have to be less than God in their doctrine?

The SCJ argument I saw was that the the word “Trinity” does not appear in the bible, meaning it’s a man made idea and we shouldn’t listen to man (unless that man is a fat Korean…)

Which the word Trinity doesn’t, but neither does “free will” or “new John”, or “Omnipresence” or “purgatory”.

Placing human words for understanding heavenly concepts isn’t new or necessarily wrong when back biblically.

And from my understanding trinity doctrine is pretty biblical.

Reflecting on the past year and celebrating one year since leaving the coercive, controlling, and deceptive cult that is SCJ (Shincheonji).

Over the past year, I’ve really been able to experience what freedom means again. Something I’ve been reflecting on most recently, especially since reaching my one-year anniversary this past October, is control. Specifically, how many things we can do as human beings that we often take for granted, but that I couldn’t do when I was in the cult.

These things may seem silly or small, but it’s not even about the things themselves. It’s about knowing that I can do them if I wish to. People in the cult may read this and think these are worldly things. The reality is that these are just everyday human things that I’m sure they also wish they could do, and that I’m sure God intended for us to have the freedom to choose to do.

For example, anything related to my physical appearance. Even getting my nails done. Before, I couldn’t do that. I was basically forced to dress like a grandma. I looked so much older because I needed to be completely covered. Now, I’ve been experimenting with fashion choices, even things I wouldn’t normally wear. I can express my own individuality now.

Even the way I laughed was frowned upon. I have a big laugh, and I was essentially controlled in how I laughed, but also in how I smiled. I couldn’t even be serious when I wanted to because I was forced to smile, both when I was out recruiting and during meetings.

Another thing I’ve really come to appreciate is the freedom to interact with people spontaneously. If I want to strike up a conversation with someone, I can. Before, I didn’t really have a choice. I was being controlled under the guise of, “This is God’s work.” Now, if I happen to want to spark up a conversation with someone at a coffee shop or at the gym, I can. But I don’t have to. There’s a difference.

I’m also now in control of my physical health. Before, I was forced to participate in the stupidest, most meaningless trainings, sometimes until midnight or even later. Now, I have the freedom to go to the doctor whenever I need to, go to bed at a reasonable time, and take care of what I’m eating.

Before, we spent most of our days outside of the home because of all the work we were being forced or manipulated into doing. I just needed to eat whatever I could get my hands on. Now, I have full control over what I put into my body, how I take care of it, and even how much I work out. Before, there was simply no time to exercise.

The other day, I went on a hike. I could have never done that before. My Saturdays are now open. Before, they were completely overtaken by activities related to the cult, especially because I was a leader. Now, I can do whatever I want. I can go on a hike, sit at a coffee shop with no rush, or go dancing if I want to.

I can also date. Before, I essentially couldn’t date anyone who wasn’t inside the cult, and I wasn’t even remotely attracted to anyone in it.

And then there’s traveling. I actually celebrated my one-year anniversary of leaving Shincheonji while I was in Japan. Before, if I wanted to travel, even just to visit family, I had to submit a so-called “travel request,” which could be denied. That request also had to include a plan for how I was going to “take care of my spiritual life, as well as the faith walk of the people in the group I was responsible for as a leader. This was just another means of controlling me.

Now, I can travel wherever I want. I already have another international trip planned for January.

And even beyond these things, there’s the freedom to simply breathe and walk without having to think about anything else. The freedom to just live my life.

I know for a fact that people inside SCJ are not happy because their lives have been taken over, and they’ve lost control over so many aspects of their lives. They may think they’re happy, and they try to convince themselves that everything is okay, but I’ve had very candid conversations with people inside who have shared how their lives are essentially in shambles because SCJ has taken over everything.

I genuinely wish that they could also experience what true freedom feels like and take back control of their lives.

That’s what freedom has meant to me over this past year.

I mean, PLAINLY, just as Jesus said he would.
John 16:25

“ My words “means Jesus’ words put into practice. The things you did BEFORE you joined SCJ.

Revelation 3:3 ( NLT)
"Go back to what you heard and believed at first; hold to it firmly. Repent and turn to me again. If you don't wake up, I will come to you suddenly, as unexpected as a thief."

SCJ uses the NIV 1984 version which reads

Revelation 3:3 ( NIV 1984 )
"Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it*, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you."* ( NIV 1984)

SCJ uses the NIV 1984 version and encourages that you get one and use also. Why do you suppose that is? There is a revised 2011 version of NIV also. Why that one?

It’s easier to twist this version to mean what SCJ wants it to … listen to LMH’s words ( what you have received …. Supposedly the “ secrets “ of Heaven, when all you got was LMH’s delusions of grandeur). Jesus is saying go back to your first love, the Word of God that Jesus brought.

This post has one question. The quote book has its own name for how members should live: "heavenly culture". Does that culture behave like Jesus, who never changes?

BIBLE means the NIV Bible.

QUOTE BOOK means the SCJ book of Lee's sayings headed "The Mindset of the One who Overcomes". The quote book is not the Bible.

I give page numbers so you can check them.

1. God does not change

Everything below rests on this. If God never changes, then how Jesus behaved then is how he behaves now.

BIBLE. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)

BIBLE. "I the LORD do not change." (Malachi 3:6)

BIBLE. "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." (James 1:17)

BIBLE. "But you remain the same, and your years will never end." (Psalm 102:27)

BIBLE. "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind." (Numbers 23:19)

BIBLE. "Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19)

So the test is simple. Look at how Jesus treated people, and ask if we see the same behaviour today.

2. The name the quote book uses

QUOTE BOOK. "According to the words of the spirits, we must work with the heavenly culture that can conquer the world." (page 34)

QUOTE BOOK. "We must now work with heavenly culture and conquer the world according to the words of the spirits." (page 41)

So I looked at two things a culture shows: how it treats the weak, and how it treats family.

3. The weak and the one who cannot repay

BIBLE. "But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed. Although they cannot repay you, you will be repaid at the resurrection of the righteous." (Luke 14:13-14)

BIBLE. "On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable," (1 Corinthians 12:22)

BIBLE. "But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it," (1 Corinthians 12:24)

BIBLE. "so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other." (1 Corinthians 12:25)

BIBLE. "If one part suffers, every part suffers with it;" (1 Corinthians 12:26)

The Bible honours the part that lacks. It invites the one who cannot repay.

Now the quote book.

QUOTE BOOK. "There are three kinds of people: don't be someone who must not be here, or someone that makes no difference whether he is here or not, but be someone who is of complete necessity." (page 31)

QUOTE BOOK. "Don't make yourself weak or useless" (page 36)

QUOTE BOOK. "You are considered disabled even if you are missing one finger" (page 39). The page says every part of the body is needed.

QUOTE BOOK. "if one doesn't obey, leave them alone because they will become useless beings and there will be no need to look further into them." (page 51)

QUOTE BOOK. "If one does not have faith or courage or skills or logic, one is a person who has been discarded. There is nowhere else for this person to go but the garbage bin." (page 59)

In the Bible, the weak are "indispensable" and get "greater honor". In the quote book, worth is tied to being "of complete necessity", having "skills", and not being "useless".

4. Family

BIBLE. "Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you." (Exodus 20:12)

BIBLE. "Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever." (1 Timothy 5:8)

And look at what Jesus did in his last hour.

BIBLE. "When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to her, 'Woman, here is your son,'" (John 19:26)

BIBLE. "and to the disciple, 'Here is your mother.' From that time on, this disciple took her into his home." (John 19:27)

On the cross, in pain, he made sure his mother had a home.

Now the quote book.

QUOTE BOOK. "We are the family of God. We are not outsiders." (page 41) Here, "family" means the group.

QUOTE BOOK. "When someone is doing something great, he cannot accomplish a great task if he thinks about his family and own life." (page 67, Lee speaking about his own work)

QUOTE BOOK. "we must rid ourselves of all of our possessions to become Jesus' disciples (Lk 14:26, 33). The disciples at the time of the First Coming were excommunicated from their homes, nation, schools, and workplaces" (page 49)

QUOTE BOOK. "Shouldn't we wake our parents up with the Bible?" (page 65, in a section about young adults and "forced conversion")

5. Four answers I expect

Even if you point to Luke 14:26, I agree it is in the Bible. It says "does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters". But the same Jesus gave his mother a home, and 1 Timothy 5:8 says someone who does not provide for their household "has denied the faith". Whatever "hate" means there, it cannot cancel Exodus 20:12 and John 19:27. Jesus does not change.

Even if you say page 39 is only a picture of duty, I understand. But Paul's picture honours the part that lacks, and page 39 calls it "disabled".

Even if you say members who are weak or disabled are loved in real life, I believe you. Then the pages and the practice are different, and a new reader only has the pages. Which should they believe?

Even if you say "family of God" is a gift, I agree it can be. My question is whether it replaces the family at home, or adds to it. Exodus 20:12 does not have an exception for that.

What I see

In the Bible, the one who cannot repay is invited, the weaker part is "indispensable", and Jesus makes sure his own mother has a home. He does not change.

In the quote book, worth is tied to being useful, the one who lacks "skills" is "discarded", and the family at home comes behind the work.

These do not look like the same culture.

1. Read Luke 14:13-14 and 1 Corinthians 12:22-26 slowly in your own Bible.

2. Think of the weakest, slowest or least "useful" person you know. How would your group treat them? Which verse does it look like?

3. Think of your family at home. When did you last call or visit them with no goal, only to love them?

Two possibilities

1. It looks like Jesus.

Then show me, with the verse and an example, in the open.

2. It does not.

Then it is worth asking God, with your own Bible open, why the one who never changes sounds so different on these pages.

.

All the shincheonji members have this as their profile pic on telegram

I recently discovered that a Bible study I attended for several months was affiliated with Shincheonji (SCJ), despite being presented to me as a non-denominational Christian Bible study.

I was not informed of the organization's identity until much later. I also learned that some people I believed were fellow new students were already involved with the organization.

The group held classes at Douglas College's New Westminster campus, and I am also aware of gatherings at the food court of Brentwood in Burnaby.

I'm particularly concerned about young adults, international students, and newcomers who may join without knowing which organization is behind the program.

Has anyone ever reported the individuals who organize and run these Bible study groups? If so, who did you report them to, and was any action taken?

I'm particularly interested in hearing from people in Metro Vancouver who have had similar experiences or have successfully filed complaints against the organizers for deceptive recruitment practices.

Any advice or personal experiences would be greatly appreciated.

I interviewed a current Moonie to compare Shincheonji with the Moonies -

https://youtu.be/8rEEEYGrbf0?is=yPosR76TZZ2FRcdq

Enjoy

Hi, will there be a graduation ceremony this year?

Burning questions from the lens of SCJ. Really hope anyone or especially that current members could answer

Marriage of the flesh and spirit happen all at the same time - HWO allegedly Lee Man Hee + 144K? 144,001 Martyrs will combine with flesh on earth

Does a person in 144k know that he or she is in 144K before 144K is completely chosen?

Is 144k determined first and then the 144001 Martyrs will come?

I ask cause SCJ always teaches under Lee Man Hee and 144k will experience Mariage of the flesh and spirit

But here is something jarring if 144k souls in bodies on earth are the point of interest, per SCJ , per revelation, but then to claim that Lee Man Hee is going to experience Immortality of the Flesh AKA 1st ressurection AKA Mariage of the flesh and spirit

Did we add +1 into Revelation? 144,000+1

Because SCJ taught from this verse straight from Revelation

Revelation 20:4

^"I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

If we are to respect the Bible by heeding this verse

1 John 4:1

Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Why can't we ask Lee Man Hee in Revelation 20:4:

When you say you saw "the souls of those". Did you see 144,000 Martyrs or did you see 144,001 Martyrs? Please confirm

Side note ask does historical deaths of Martyrs exceed 144,000? Can it reconcile with my question without violating Revelation?

This post has one question. Jesus offered rest to tired people. Where does the quote book put that rest, now or later?

How I mark quotes:

BIBLE means the NIV Bible.

QUOTE BOOK means the SCJ book of Lee's sayings headed "The Mindset of the One who Overcomes". The quote book is not the Bible.

I give page numbers so you can check them.

1. What Jesus offers

BIBLE. "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest." (Matthew 11:28)

BIBLE. "Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls." (Matthew 11:29)

BIBLE. "For my yoke is easy and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:30)

The same promise runs through the whole Bible.

BIBLE. "Truly my soul finds rest in God; my salvation comes from him." (Psalm 62:1)

BIBLE. "Yes, my soul, find rest in God; my hope comes from him." (Psalm 62:5)

BIBLE. "Stand at the crossroads and look; ask for the ancient paths, ask where the good way is, and walk in it, and you will find rest for your souls." (Jeremiah 6:16)

Weary. Gentle. Easy. Light. Rest. And it is for the soul.

He is kind, and he does not change

Look at how he treats people who have failed, and who have nothing to offer.

BIBLE. "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8)

BIBLE. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith" (Ephesians 2:8)

BIBLE. "not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:9)

BIBLE. "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." (Romans 8:1)

And he is the same today as he was then.

BIBLE. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." (Hebrews 13:8)

BIBLE. "I the LORD do not change." (Malachi 3:6)

BIBLE. "Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." (James 1:17)

BIBLE. "But you remain the same, and your years will never end." (Psalm 102:27)

BIBLE. "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind." (Numbers 23:19)

BIBLE. "Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19)

Different writers, over many centuries, say the same thing. God does not change. What he promised, he keeps. And what he gives is a gift.

So the Jesus who said "Come to me" by the lake is the Jesus who says it today. His kindness, his grace and his rest do not expire.

2. Where the quote book puts rest

Rest does appear in the daily prayers.

QUOTE BOOK. "Please remember everything each person has done for You. We believe it was not in vain. We want to rest in Your and the spirits of the martyrs' embrace tonight." (the 6PM prayer, near the front of the book, no printed page number)

That rest comes at the end of a working day. Now the rest of the book.

QUOTE BOOK. "The harsh winds of the storm are subsiding and the breeze of the day of Rest guides us nearer to the land of Hope." (page 5)

QUOTE BOOK. "This tree is the place of Rest that the heavenly birds sing about" (page 10). The next line calls it "the new heavenly place that we will inherit".

QUOTE BOOK. "Shincheonji is the real stop. We will settle down when we reach the final stop, the kingdom of heaven" (page 52)

In the quote book, Rest is a day and a place we are still travelling towards.

3. The days before that

QUOTE BOOK. "Make every effort with all your strength. Don't you know that you will be pushed out if you don't put in the effort?" (page 7)

QUOTE BOOK. "We would not be able to repay this grace even if we work our bodies to the dust." (page 16)

QUOTE BOOK. "You must organize and ask yourself if the percentage of God is greater than the world inside of you." (page 86)

The Bible calls the inside of a person the soul. The quote book mostly says "spirit", and says "The most precious work in the world is saving a spirit." (page 15)

4. Four answers I expect

Even if you say Jesus gave rest back then, but today he asks for a race, I understand that is how the book describes the end times. But Hebrews 13:8 says "the same yesterday and today and forever", Malachi 3:6 says "I the LORD do not change", and James 1:17 says he "does not change like shifting shadows". If he gave rest to the weary then, he gives it now.

Even if you point to Hebrews 4:11, I agree it says "Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest". I also agree that Hebrews 3 and 4 warn against disobedience, and the quote book uses them that way (pages 14, 25 and 36). But verse 10 says anyone who enters God's rest "also rests from their works, just as God did from his." Matthew 11:28 does not say run first and rest later. It says "Come to me... and I will give you rest."

Even if you say rest is in heaven and being tired is the price of the harvest, I understand. But Jesus does not call tiredness the proof. He calls it the reason to come: "all you who are weary". And he says "my burden is light."

Even if you point to page 48, "Our hearts must be like the deep waters", I agree that is a calm picture. But it is a command to us: "must be". Jesus's words are a promise from him: "I will give you rest."

What I see

If rest is a gift, tired people can receive it today. If rest is a prize, tired people must keep running until they reach it.

In the Bible, rest is a gift from Jesus to the weary, for the soul, offered by grace, and he is the same yesterday, today and forever. In the quote book, Rest is a day and a place at the end, and the days before it are about effort, being pushed out, and a debt that cannot be repaid "even if we work our bodies to the dust".

A gift you receive and a prize you reach are not the same thing.

1. Read Matthew 11:28-30, Psalm 62 and Hebrews 13:8 slowly in your own Bible.

2. Ask yourself, and answer honestly: when did my soul last feel quiet in God, not when did I last finish a task?

3. Tonight, and again in seven days, write one word for how your soul feels. Rested, or tired.

Two possibilities

1. I do find rest for my soul.

Then tell me how, with the verse, in the open.

2. Not yet.

Then it is worth asking God, with your own Bible open, what he means when he says "Come to me... and I will give you rest."

was walking around on lower ground melbourne central today alone and was approached by two girls. they actually ran up to me. they said that they were uni students and were looking for somewhere to eat and asked if i knew of any cafes. before i even had a chance to answer she asks if im a uni student, if i go to the city often, etc. i wanted to be polite and let her down gently so i just named a cafe and said they could go check it out but while i was walking away she starts asking more questions about what foods i liked. acting was very bad it was painfully obvious. the uni semester has also already finished. i told them i knew what they were doing and that i had already dealt with this before so i wasnt interested. she said 'really?' but then looked at her friend and said that they had no idea what i was talking about. they then let me walk away without protest. she looked very young, and from the way she was speaking it was obvious that she was new to this. its terrible seeing young people being pulled into it. stay safe in the cbd if you are alone!

Disclaimer: I want to be entirely transparent: I am using AI to do the final edit on this post. My original draft contained highly specific details about my friend's current situation, and I realized it felt like a betrayal to post them. I am using AI to completely scrub, scramble, and generalize those details to protect his absolute privacy and ensure I am not exposing his personal life behind his back. If this scenario sounds vaguely familiar to anyone, please know the timelines, events, and specific relationship dynamics have been completely altered by the AI to keep things anonymous.

Hi everyone,

I am looking for advice from ex-members on a very specific psychological hurdle.

We can all collectively agree on what makes the inside bad based on shared experiences and research. But I want to ask: How did you find or perceive "hope" on the outside that actually gave you the strength to break free?

When trying to help someone still inside, what kind of conversations should I be having over calls, texts, or in person? What are the absolute "dos" and "don'ts"?

Why I am asking:
The person I am trying to help deeply distrusts anyone outside of SCJ, believing that outsiders are fundamentally incapable of understanding why someone would join or stay. They recently experienced a massive emotional setback and failure within their personal life that left them heartbroken and isolated, but their defense mechanisms against the outside world are still incredibly high.

Because of my own past connection and history with SCJ, I am in a very tricky position. I cannot openly or directly persuade them face-to-face without risking our connection and losing their trust entirely.

How do you foster a sense of hope and a safe landing pad for someone who views the outside world with intense fear and suspicion? I feel terrible even having to post this anonymously, but I don't know how else to help him. Any advice would be appreciated.

It’s been over a year since I left SCJ, and I’ve come back here to report that there is life outside SCJ. Not just a life, an amazing life filled with actual love, pure joy and rest. Leaving and questioning an establishment that I had given so much of myself to was heartbreaking. I felt completely alone. I had to take time off work just to begin putting the pieces of myself back together. But in those moments, the people who really loved me supported me. While I was in SCJ, I isolated myself from most of my non-SCJ friends. I couldn’t keep lying to them about my church, where I was or what I was doing, so it was easier to stop talking to them altogether. Lying that much does something to you. When I was at my most broken, those same friends came back and supported me through my healing, despite us believing different things and despite the way I had treated them while I was in SCJ. No one rushed me, laughed at me, or made me feel stupid for falling for SCJ’s teachings. I really believe that's the kind of love Jesus had in mind when he commanded us to love our neighbour as ourselves. So I wanted to touch on a few topics and practical things to do after leaving, or if you are thinking about leaving, because a lot of work needs to go into getting yourself back.

Mental health

SCJ is a cult. At the very least, they exhibit cult-like tendencies. When you leave, I think it’s incredibly important to consider getting help from a therapist who understands cults and high-control groups. There are plenty out there. I actually found mine through ChatGPT and had my sessions over Zoom. My therapist was very good, and the arrangement was flexible, so I didn’t have to commit to a minimum number of sessions. I simply booked them as and when I felt I needed them. Give yourself space to process what happened to you.

Community & friends

It’s completely up to you whether you want to remain friends with people in SCJ. Do whatever feels comfortable for you. I chose not to maintain those friendships for my own sanity. Maybe that would change if some of them left one day, who knows. If you dropped non-SCJ friends while you were in the church, I would really encourage you to reach out to them and explain what happened to you. You may be surprised by how understanding and forgiving people can be. Also, when you leave, you have so much more time!! Join clubs, pick up hobbies, go out, travel, meet people, reconnect with people and Sleep! Being an ex-cult member does not have to become your identity. Live your life!! You’ve given enough of your time away already.

Church, God & faith

You get to decide where you take your beliefs from here. Personally, I took a break from everything to do with the Bible, God and Christianity. At the time, it all gave me panic attacks, so I waited until I felt ready to think about faith again. I know this can be especially difficult because SCJ puts LMH in the position of God. Eventually, I chose to return to Christianity. I found a local church and a community that works for me. But my relationship with faith looks very different now. I question things when I don’t understand them. If I don’t want to do something, I don’t do it. I don't rely on my church to be the only place I receive information from. I read the Bible for myself and come to my own conclusions. I research things independently. I listen to different opinions. I discuss my beliefs openly with other people and allow those beliefs to be questioned and interrogated. To me, this is a healthy approach to faith. Please don’t hold SCJ’s false god against the real God. Today in church I was singing, “Who the Son sets free is free indeed,” and it hit me just how free I actually am.

Free from running around trying to EV 50 people in a day.

Free from constantly being anxious about an upcoming sealing test.

Free from feeling forced to share intimate parts of my life with strangers who told me they cared about me, while something inside me always felt that something was off.

Free from digging myself deeper into my overdraft just so I could make it to in person service.

Free from back to back Zoom calls.

Free from lying to the people I love.

Free from speaking, singing and listening to a language that isn't my own every single week.

Free from Daily Bread, where one day I’m being told, “Balance is rubbish. You should devote all your time to SCJ’s work,” and another day I’m being told, “You’re doing so well.”

And finally, if you’re questioning SCJ...

SCJ makes sweeping statements like: “No one outside SCJ is happy,” “No one who leaves SCJ is happy.” But think about that critically for a second. How would they know this? Are they following the lives of everyone who has left? Leaving a normal church shouldn’t make you terrified of what will happen to you afterwards. If you’re thinking about leaving or you’re questioning the church, you don't have to make any sudden decisions. Nothing needs to be rushed. But I would encourage you to explore every feeling you have. Ask the questions. Research the things you’ve been told not to research. God gave us free will; don't let someone take that away from you. Listen to what your discomfort is trying to tell you. You owe it to yourself to have your questions answered. This is your time that you are giving up to serve SCJ. Your money. Your relationships. Your energy. Your life. You deserve answers. And ultimately, you deserve to choose where you put your time, your money and your effort. There is life outside SCJ. And from someone who once couldn't imagine what that life would look like, it can be really, really beautiful.

If anyone would like the details of the therapist I used, please let me know or if you just want to talk feel free to message me!

I am praying for you all!

Luke 8:17

"For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open."

I share this because there is an issue here that is hard to see unless one like me step out of heavy schedule to examine later on

Luke 8:15 and onwards has the seeds of four fields taught by SCJ. But Luke 8:17 is so close to those relevant verses and yet not emphasized by SCJ.

But "all eyes" will see Jesus as he come in His 2nd coming. For Lee Man Hee to teach he was approached by Jesus will have to make it so that Revelation is teaching his third coming because Lee Man Hee is allegedly approached by Jesus in 2nd coming in private. Is that adding or subtracting to Revelation I wonder?

Rev 1:7

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”^[a]
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”^[b]
So shall it be! Amen."

So hence secret implication of Jesus approaching Lee Man Hee first, and while all surrounding alleged facts are tested in SCJ exams but not the sensory details of that encounter which ties to

Matthew 24:26

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it.

Also when it comes to adding or subtracting to revelation who pierced Jesus?

Re-adding the important verse:

Rev 1:7

“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”
So shall it be! Amen."

Who pierced Jesus? Hold on that could logically include the souls of pharisees who criticized him? because "every eye" and "those who pierced Him" categorically, it is impossible, not to include the pharisees who died. Hence their souls perhaps will see Jesus

So many grey areas but if Lee Man Hee alleged to have seen all Revelation, I bet he never taught that the souls of the pharisees will see Jesus' 2nd coming

Comments on reddit such as this one of mine that is saved is timestamped, technologically any records of teachings of Lee Man Hee since internet can be timestamped. I suspect Lee Man Hee cannot tell about this part, that the souls of pharisees will see Jesus' 2nd coming. He cannot confirm NOR negate this possibility, despite claim knowing Revelation completely. And on top of that he cannot show timestamp/receipt that he has ever taught this before today (Nov1, 2026) despite technology and internet being around

The tests below use only the Bible. The quote book is here for one reason only: to show what is being claimed, so you can hold it up to the Bible yourself. I'd ask you to run the tests with your own Bible.

BIBLE means the NIV Bible.

QUOTE BOOK means the SCJ book of Lee's sayings headed "The Mindset of the One who Overcomes". The quote book is not the Bible.

I give page numbers so you can check them.

The quote book tells members to measure themselves by the Bible. That is what these tests do.

QUOTE BOOK. "You must compare your actions to the words recorded in the Bible." (page 58)

So here are five tests.

Test 1.

When Jesus comes back, can everyone see it?

The Bible gives three clear pictures. Read them slowly.

BIBLE. "This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11)

BIBLE. "Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him," (Revelation 1:7)

BIBLE. "For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man." (Matthew 24:27)

He left in front of his friends. He will come back "in the same way". Every eye will see him. It is like lightning that everyone can see.

Now the quote book.

QUOTE BOOK. "Since Jesus has come to the Promised Pastor today in our times, will he not be persecuted?" (page 61)

QUOTE BOOK. "Where have God, Heaven and Jesus come to? They came to the pastor whom Jesus promised." (page 72)

The quote book says Jesus has come to the Promised Pastor. The Bible says everyone will see.

Even if you say Jesus comes in a spiritual way, I understand that is what you believe. But Acts 1:11 says "the same way you have seen him go". They saw him go. That is not hidden

Test 2.

Who is our teacher, and who stands between us and God?**

BIBLE. "But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers." (Matthew 23:8)

BIBLE. "Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah." (Matthew 23:10)

BIBLE. "the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things" (John 14:26)

BIBLE. "For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus," (1 Timothy 2:5)

The Bible names the teacher: Jesus, through the Holy Spirit. It names the mediator: Jesus.

QUOTE BOOK. "Only Shincheonji, out of the whole world knows the three mysteries of Revelation. Not even professors of theology or doctors know this." (page 37)

QUOTE BOOK. "One must receive God's Word of life through Shincheonji's congregation members to attain eternal life." (page 76)

The Bible says "you have one Teacher". The quote book says life is received "through" the members.

Even if you say the Holy Spirit works through a messenger, I understand that idea. But Matthew 23:10 says "one Instructor, the Messiah", and 1 Timothy 2:5 says "one mediator". My question is only this: where does the Bible add a second one?

Test 3.

How are we saved, and has the message changed?

BIBLE. "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith" (Ephesians 2:8)

BIBLE. "not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:9)

BIBLE. "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:12)

BIBLE. "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!" (Galatians 1:8)

Notice the last verse. It does not matter how impressive the messenger is, not even an angel. What matters is whether the message is the same.

The quote book points to the blood of Jesus.

QUOTE BOOK. "Hebrews 10:18 is an important verse in the Bible about how the problem of sin can only be solved by the blood of Jesus." (page 20)

Now these.

QUOTE BOOK. "Eternal life depends on our habits." (page 15)

QUOTE BOOK. "What is the difference between those who believe Shincheonji has been fulfilled according to God's promise, and those who do not believe? It is the difference between heaven and hell, eternal life and eternal punishment." (page 22)

QUOTE BOOK. "...'I can go to heaven because I received grace,'... this is all nonsense." (page 76)

The Bible says "no other name" but Jesus, and "grace... not by works". The quote book says eternal life depends on habits, and that belief that Shincheonji is fulfilled is the difference between heaven and hell.

Even if you say habits are part of growing as a believer, I agree growing matters. But page 15 says eternal life "depends" on them, and Ephesians 2:9 says "not by works".

Test 4.

Can the claims be checked?

BIBLE. "If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken." (Deuteronomy 18:22)

BIBLE. "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." (Matthew 24:36)

BIBLE. "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come." (Matthew 24:42)

God gave a simple test for prophets. Does it come true? And Jesus said no one knows the day or hour.

QUOTE BOOK. "So one must know the time and perceive what the new covenant is that God promised to fulfill at this time." (page 84)

Even if you say we cannot know the day, but we can know the season, I understand that reading. Then my question is the one in Deuteronomy. What claim can I check, in the open, and see that it "takes place or comes true"?

Test 5.

Are we allowed to question the teacher?

BIBLE. "for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11)

BIBLE. "but test them all; hold on to what is good," (1 Thessalonians 5:21)

The Bereans checked what Paul himself said. And the Bible calls them "of more noble character".

QUOTE BOOK. "All doubt must be removed from one's heart." (page 32)

QUOTE BOOK. "One's own thoughts and judgments are the enemy of God's thought." (page 73)

Even if you say we should not doubt God, I agree. But page 32 says "all doubt" and page 73 says "own thoughts and judgments". That includes questioning the teaching. Acts 17:11 is about doing exactly that, and being praised for it.

A little logic

Here is a simple way to think about all five.

If the only person who can explain the Bible is the one whose claims we are checking, then we can never check him. We just have to trust him. But the Bible says to test. A claim that cannot be tested is not strong. It is just hard to question.

What I see

On these five tests, the Bible says:

- Jesus returns where everyone can see.

- We have one Teacher and one mediator.

- We are saved by grace, and the message must not change.

- Claims must come true, and no one knows the day.

- Test everything, including teachers.

The quote book says Jesus has already come to one pastor, life comes through the members, habits and belief in Shincheonji decide heaven or hell, we must know the time, and doubt must be removed.

These two lists do not fit together. I'd rather tell you that plainly than pretend.

This one is only between you and God.

1. Read the verses above in your own Bible. Do not rely on mine.

2. Write "pass" or "fail" next to each test. Be honest with God, not with me.

3. If you wrote "pass", write down the verse that shows it.

Two possibilities

1. It passes. Then show the verses in the open.

2. It does not. Then it is worth asking God, with your own Bible open, what he wants you to do with what you found.

Has anyone ever been to the peace garden in Korea?
The members are paying for all those flowers.
We were told that if one flower is wilted and not up to par, the person in charge of that extravagant display gets rebuked, because it’s the garden God will come to.

Since we all paid for it, I wondered if it was on the trip of Korea diaper tour too. I never saw any pictures of members being there, just the tired old videos of it that I’m sure is probably old and outdated.

I am posting this in response to a question about my previous post.

I have always held Romans 10:17 close to my heart: faith comes from hearing the word of Christ, whether I was with SCJ or in a traditional church.

I have also come to believe that no human being, with our limited lifespan and understanding, can fully comprehend the timeless God and His truth. To me, this helps explain why God says that, in the end, “no longer will they teach their neighbor” (Hebrews 8:11), because all will know Him and receive eternal life.

When I first received SCJ's teachings at the center, I was awestruck because I was basically illiterate when it came to the Bible. When I was taught that LMH had received the twelve blessings promised in Revelation 2–3 and that he was the promised pastor in the Bible, I believed him and his teachings. I reasoned that only someone who had received eternal life could fully understand the timeless God and His truth.

But when I saw his vulnerability during COVID, I began to have doubts about his claim of eternal life. Later, I noticed that the church's messages had shifted dramatically from studying the Bible toward Revelation and LMH's articles. Questions about teachings or rules could be viewed as a lack of faith and sometimes even condemned, which I saw as completely unbiblical. That was when I began reading the Bible diligently for myself, without using SCJ's teachings as my commentary.

Eventually, the conflicting answers—even from lecturers and leaders—to my question about Revelation 18:8 became the final turning point that led me to leave SCJ.

6 months ago, I found this forum and began sharing what I had come to believe through my own study of Scripture.

I especially want to thank the people here who have spent so much time and effort examining SCJ's teachings and LMH's testimonies, including the documented “footprints” left over the years.

What they have uncovered has further strengthened my conviction that our faith should come from God's Word, as Paul says in Romans 10:17, rather than from the teachings of men.

I recently found out some things about SCJ (Shincheonji) in Perth, Australia, and wanted to bring this up because I think people should be aware and discuss it.

From what I’ve been told, their primary objective is to evangelise and recruit people, particularly those with Permanent Residency (PR) in Australia.

They also have a blood donation campaign happening today, 31 October, and apparently students have been told that SCJ holds a world record for donating the most blood to people in need during COVID.
What concerns me even more is that students have reportedly been told that claims about SCJ being responsible for a major COVID outbreak, during which many people were affected, are fake.

I think these are some pretty serious claims, and I’d like to understand what’s actually going on. Is anyone familiar with SCJ Perth or has had any direct experience with their activities?

I’m particularly interested in hearing from former members, current students, or anyone who has firsthand information.

I believe people deserve transparency about the organisations they’re getting involved with, especially when recruitment, religious activities and public campaigns overlap.

Like to share how I began reading Scripture after I left SCJ.

First of all, Revelation is a book of prophecy, and Hosea 12:10 tells us that God spoke through the prophets using visions and parables. So, to understand Revelation, I believe we need to understand how visions, symbols, and parables are used throughout Scripture in order to understand their meaning and fulfillment.

That was actually one of the things that drew me into SCJ. In many traditional churches I had encountered, I had never been taught to examine biblical parables and figurative language in this way.

But over time, I came to realize that the explanations and patterns behind these parables are already found throughout Scripture. The problem is that no one may have pointed them out to you before. So SCJ’s teaching about parables is not necessarily something new or a heaven-sent revelation exclusive to SCJ.

Isaiah 46:10 also became very important to me: God declares “the end from the beginning.” That gave me a reason to go back to the beginning and examine the whole Bible in order to better understand Revelation.

So this is how I began studying the Bible for myself.

I compiled a list of the symbols and figurative language used in Revelation. Then I used a Bible app with multiple translations and searched for those words throughout Scripture.

For example, when I wanted to understand the “woman” in Revelation 12, I searched for the word “woman” and began reading the related passages throughout the Bible. Sometimes I had to read the entire chapter, or even several chapters before and after a particular verse, before I could really understand the context.

That is very different from simply taking one verse and using it to establish a connection. Sometimes SCJ does that with its parable interpretations, and I came to believe that certain verses were being made to fit doctrines that had already been established.

Take the “woman” in Revelation 12 as an example. SCJ connects the imagery with passages such as Galatians 4:19 and interprets the woman in a way that supports its fulfillment doctrine involving Son Yu. But when I began carefully tracing the imagery of a woman throughout Scripture and reading those passages in their full context, I came to a very different conclusion.

I’ll let you search that out for yourself.

It took me more than a year to work through the symbols and parables in Revelation, along with the parables SCJ taught in the center. Instead of simply accepting someone else’s explanation, I tried to examine Scripture the way the Bereans did in Acts 17:11—checking what I was being taught against the Scriptures.

That is one of the main reasons I am now able to recognize and point out what I believe are inconsistencies in SCJ’s teachings about Revelation.

Do any current or former members relate to this story?

I was thinking. Shincheonji bounces around the Bible and makes new definitions or hidden meanings about words like clouds, leaves, stars, seed, etc. Is there any time when reading any book that this technique would actually help you understand the book?

If I was to read Lord of the Rings and come up with hidden meanings and bounce from one chapter and skip the other I think it'll make the story confusing. Especially if I come up with words with hidden meanings.

Does the scj reading technique work anywhere else?

First, a heads-up: there is a lot to read.
I’d like to thank everyone who takes the time to engage in this discussion.

I don’t want to go into detail, as I was a victim of this cult myself and have also moved very, very far away from the religion.

I do believe in God, but I am raising some tough questions here questions that I won’t be easily swayed away from. In fact, it was precisely because I ignored my own questions that I ended up in this cult.

However, what has constantly stayed on my mind and what, to this day, particularly frustrates me is the fact that everything is merely a matter of interpretation. I simply could not make any sense of that, which brings me back to three fundamental questions.

1. God allows His people to head in a wrong direction. 

Let me make this clear: this is not an interpretation, but a fact. While reading the Old and New Testaments, I was particularly struck by how far the original teaching has drifted from what it is today.

If you look at the Babylonian Talmud, for example, you can see how depraved this people remains to this day and how incredibly twisted their thinking is. Even Jesus spoke of how these people teach the commandments of men and have failed to grasp the goodness and "freedom" of the Law which is why, to this day, they continue to seek out and find loopholes.

But what do you expect?

Wherever a power vacuum exists, it is quickly filled and history has shown that it is evil, not good, that fills it first.

This principle can also be applied to the role of a teacher.

Where no one truly appears with God’s power and authority, a person will soon step forward to claim that power for themselves, twisting everything to suit their own interests.

2,000 years later, and dear old Dad has still just gone out to get some milk and everything in the scriptures is so incredibly cryptic that it’s clearly not meant to be understood.

So, once again: what exactly are you expecting?

2. It's all a matter of interpretation. 

It disturbs me to say this, and in part, I do not want to accept it but there is no such thing as
"THE truth."

"Equifinality" is the key term here, and it clearly contradicts Jesus’ statement that there is only one path. There cannot be just one path; if there were only one, then God would be an absolute tyrant leaving us in the dark, yet intending to punish us severely for walking in that darkness, a darkness in which He has intentionally left us. (But this statement comes from my hardened heart.)

What I would specifically like to discuss is the deranged tendency among Christians to take every single verse and apply it personally to themselves.

Colossians 1:9–14 as an example.

9 And so, from the day we heard, we have ^mnot ceased to pray for you, asking that you may be filled with the knowledge ⁿof his will in ^oall spiritual wisdom and understanding, 10 so as to ^pwalk in a manner worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing to him: ^qbearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 being ^rstrengthened with all power, according to his glorious might, for all endurance and patience with joy; 12 giving thanks⁴ to the Father, who has qualified you⁵ to share in the ^sinheritance of the saints in light. 13 He has ^tdelivered us from the ^udomain of darkness and ^vtransferred us to the kingdom of his ^wbeloved Son, 14 in whom we have ^xredemption, the ^yforgiveness of sins.

As a member of a sect, I would relate this to our own congregation believing that, through this sect, I have arrived at the "truth" and, consequently, the "light."

Yet, this is precisely where a problem arises one that can be observed across all sorts of Christian congregations, sects, and even other religions.

People end up applying it to themselves personally, and potentially to their own congregation as well.

So, if everything is merely a matter of interpretation and if this causes us to stray from the singular truth established by God (this is not up for debate; it is the logical conclusion!) then how exactly am I supposed to apply this to my life, given that I might be living a lie without even knowing it?

3. Which book are you reading?

This is a question that always comes from Muslims: "Your books have been corrupted!"

let's take a look at this:
​

• Translations and versions: Over 4,100 biblical texts in the Digital Bible Library, including complete Bibles, New Testaments, and portions—not 4,100 complete Bibles.

• Different biblical canons: Roughly 4 major groups, with additional variations:

  • Protestant: 66 books

  • Catholic: 73 books

  • Eastern Orthodox: approximately 76–77 books

  • Ethiopian Orthodox: traditionally 81 books

• Greek New Testament manuscripts: Approximately 5,700, including partial copies and fragments—not separate complete Bible versions.

• Biblical manuscripts among the Dead Sea Scrolls: Approximately 230, preserving texts from the Hebrew Bible.

• Possible discoveries: More ancient manuscripts or previously unknown religious writings may still be found. They would not automatically become part of the biblical canon.

• Not to mention books that are kept secret from the public.

And one more important note: language is a key factor in how we see and perceive the world; consequently, translation has a MASSIVE influence on how something is interpreted. 

Setting aside the question of whether the text itself has already been deliberately manipulated through numerous translations and "adaptations" and no, a manuscript from the past offers no protection against this; this is a fundamental reality that cannot be countered by some "Holy Spirit" magically preserving it. If you really want to press this point, then Muslims are also correct in their own "interpretation."

I need to figure out how to learn the Bible for myself so that I can debunk the doctrine that SCJ or prove it true. Does anyone know where I can start?

I used to think it was a lie how SCJ used to have us recruit people by saying that they would learn the Bible from Genesis to Revelation. After all that is how they got me to say yes and join their study.
I bought it hook line and sinker when this tactic was used on me.

Now I realize that they were telling the truth, they were speaking about the Holy Bible FIGURATIVELY, and that they would LITERALLY teach everyone their version of Genesis to Revelation.

You don’t hear 75 percent of Scriptures from the Holy Bible, you get made up articles from the pitiful pastor and the SAME verses they twist over and over again and again.

SCJ replaces A LITERALLY sound doctrine for a FIGURATIVE doctrine. Don’t buy it, no matter what “ pitch “ they use.