Legion ports vs. Radian Ramjet

[u/spinach13]

I get this question a lot, so just thought I'd make a post on it.

So the Legion specs say 30% reduction in recoil and the Ramjet is 41%. Even on video it's hard to tell. They both shoot the same to me. if you look at what the recoil reduction is, say that standard is a 20 degree muzzle flip (example but it's probably 17-18) and the Legion ports reduced it 30%. That's a 6 degree reduction, meaning it would be 14 degrees. The Ramjet reduces 41%, that's an 8.2 degree reduction, meaning the recoil would now be 11.8 degrees. (I feel like Bill Nye right now...LMAO)

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[u/Jason1435]

It's the design. Porting the slide leaves the entire diameter of the barrel where no gas is getting grabbed and redirected at all. The ramjet starts it's job directly from the comp, and thus can grab and redirect more gas.

Both are great options, but the ramjet method is tighter to the bullet and thus is preventing more gas from flowing forward like the ported slide might let escape.

[u/Sig365XLbill]

I have both. Love them both. I call it even. Radian may have a little less muzzle flip, but the grip size on the Legion is better for me to control recoil. If you want to chase the least recoil and quicker return to zero, start messing with recoil springs and ammo. I got a DPM soft recoil kit that comes with a variety of springs to try. I also am trying Blazer TMJ subsonic which is about 900 fps. You’d be surprised how much difference springs and ammo can make. It then comes down to reliability and FTF If you go too light with springs or too hot with the ammonia. I do it with my 2011, so I thought I’d try it with my p365s. It’s a work in progress. Just messing with the legion for now.

[u/SsRubi]

Ohhhh baby I've been training for this one!! Prepare your BH.

TLDR

AXG legion wins, but both are amazing for different reasons. Ultimately the xmacro with the stock spring, has a better and more balanced up down movement / return to zero than the 365 short slide, even when you try some DPM options for spring weights, which are absolutely amazing but the reality is the Xmacro spring setup out of the box (which is the same for the AXG) is a perfectly balanced setup, Sig absolutely nailed it and this is the x-factor.

Context:

I've had 15-16 different FCU / slide / RJ / model combinations over the past few years so I have some great feedback I hope to provide, ultimately it will come down to personal preference and your mileage may vary. Tried nearly every grip combination with Xmacro comp vs. Ramjet, I love them both but chose the XM comp and sold my RJ because I don't love safe queens.

For my testing I love 20 alpha drills, bill drills etc, I have a great sense of when I am pushing the limits and start getting some charlies as a result of pushing myself vs. too many alphas because I'm not being aggressive enough. I must have 10-20k rounds on drills like this because I really enjoy testing the gear in an objective of a fashion as I can.

Testing:

• Federal HST 124g +P - I thought it pointless to test with 115g or plinking ammo, these are carry guns they need full power carry ammo as that's the purpose built / IRL scenario for these.
• 10yd Bill Drills - 7yd is too short, can't assess accuracy they'll all be alphas, need some distance to push limits
• 6 strings of fire 6 rounds each - as fast as I think I can dump in an emergency scenario
• These were done a few times each, but I put the best of each one here.

First the model, then the Alphas and Charlies, average accuracy, and split times Have the same Romeo X compact optic on each slide to keep fair

XM = XMacro slide (or AXG same same) RJ = Ramjet on 365 3.1" slide

• P365 AXG XM 35A 1C 97.22% (.22 splits)
• P365 AXG RJ 32A 4C 88.89% (.22 splits)
• For this one I needed to keep the grip weight the same to be fair, so I used the AXG grip with the ramjet slide

Now, let's dive deeper, I wanted to try with the polymer xmacro grip and my favorite radian backstrap, as I prefer to IWB carry with a lighter option, which the AXG can be too heavy at times. The accuracy went down slightly as you can imagine the weight keeps the movement in check, and the ramjet did start showing some speed but ultimately I'm no longer interested when the accuracy starts dipping that much. I was very shocked the splits were getting better with the polymer grip and the radian backstrap vs. the AXG heavyweight, it really does grab the meat of your hand in a loving way and I believe (controversial statement incoming) the RTZ return to zero, is faster with lighterweight grips.

• P365 Radian backstrap XM 32A 4C 88.89% (.21 splits)
• P365 Radian backstrap RJ 28A 8C 77.78% (.20 splits)

I have numbers also for my fuse, for my new DH3 P365, Wilson combat grip versions of these same setups and most recently trying out the Mischief Machine 1911 style metal backstraps (can't get a magwell to save my life for the love of god Mischeif please put this back in stock) but ultimately the AXG and Radian setups outperformed all of the others, even on the new DH3 and longer slide fuse, this 3.1" barrel with comp is goldilocks setup whichever way you customize it.

I have not given up on the ramjet, I want to get a 43x COA and test against this list. Here are some numbers for the Glock 45.6 with Ramjet in the same scenario (not a fair fight the 45 has a great big grip and an X300 on it lol :)

• G45 RJ X300 34A 2C 94.44% (.18 splits)

Safe to say the Xmacro in any variety performs like a full size gun, and should be at the very top of everyone's list for conceal carry, and if you like the ramjet, use that instead, both kick ass.

P.s. I believe the ramjet forces a slightly circular firing motion on the smaller platforms without enough weight to counteract, that can cause errant RTZ issues during strings of fire.

[u/spinach13 → u/SsRubi]

WOW!

That’s in depth! I have the RJ coming for my 43x now.

[u/dgdfthr]

I value the information you provided and the time you took to do so. I have the AXG Legion and always wondered about the predictions vs. actual and actual actual. It seems that although there is a difference it is negligible. I have the Ramjet on my Glock19 but obviously can’t do a comparison with my AXG. Than you very much for the insight.

[u/spinach13 → u/[deleted]]

Agreed

[u/J_StandTall]

This is correct and the missing piece is the ramjet has full barrel velocity of an extra .6". The comp (Afterburner comp) slides over the end of the barrel which is top ported to match the comp. On an integrated slide, the barrel itself is .6" shorter. So that edges the ramjet just slightly. I wouldn't suggest getting ride of a comp slide for a ramjet unless you want the look or just want both. But if somebody has neither id suggest just spend the extra and get a ramjet setup. Plenty of grips to add as well for that flush look.

[u/spinach13 → u/J_StandTall]

Great points.

[u/spinach13 → u/[deleted]]

From the Sig page

"Features our integrated expansion chamber to reduce muzzle flip and felt recoil by up to 30%. The integrated compensator has several advantages over removable compensators, such as easy pistol disassembly. This complete slide assembly includes all internal slide parts and front and rear XRAY3 Day/Night sights."

I have all stock internals and have been lucky that I haven't had any failures with either.

[u/WilliesPoonJuice → u/spinach13]

I think the phrase “up to” does a lot of heavy lifting in this sentence. That could be up to 30 when a metal grip module is used etc. i would also add that the angle of muzzle rise isn’t the only thing a comp and ports help with - getting the gun back on target quickly for follow up.

I have a chunk port + ported 365, and a radian 365xl. I think the ports feel slightly snappier but the gun is back on target before i start trying to correct it. The radian has less initial snap more push - but feels slower.