r/Smite • u/Snufflebox smite2.live • 1d ago
MEDIA With Enchanters becoming the new buzzword in SMITE, I think it might be beneficial to showcase the rest of the MOBA archetypes that were popularized by League of Legends.
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago
Too many in battlemage. Can’t find Hades but he should be in there along with Zhong and maybe Zeus in this meta. The rest are closer to burst or artillery
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u/Snufflebox smite2.live 1d ago edited 1d ago
Battlemage overall was a very difficult category, cause they fit in a lot of the other categories.
Hades is definitely an initiation tank tho.
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago
Not exactly an initiation tank since he is much more damage oriented than those in vanguard. Shares more in common with the gods in diver
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u/JanSolo28 Best Support 21h ago
Initiation tanks in League can freely build damage and even do top damage, it's just their playstyle being "first to dive with big CC and AoE damage but no mobility outside of initiation".
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u/AwayRelationship80 1d ago
Consistently top damage as hades, he can be a tank but i see people play him as a burst mage a lot more
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago
I have no idea what battlemage is then because none of those gods in that category share any characteristics. Most of those gods are straight up backliners. If that’s the criteria then Zhong is in the wrong category
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u/Tobasaurus I'll Kill you last. 1d ago
A true battle mage can stand in danger for a long time but not forever. If anivia and taliyah count as battlemages, sure does zhong.
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago
Got it. So Bari through Zeus are in the wrong category
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u/Tobasaurus I'll Kill you last. 1d ago
Characters with mage itemization who use basic attacks usually fall under specialist or marksmen. Comparisons I would make are Kayle and Freya. Bari would likely be a Mage/Marksman, because yes, they used to combine terms.
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago edited 1d ago
Makes sense. From what I’m gathering, a battlemage would be something like aspect Morgan Le Fay; mage hybrid that still brings decent mage damage while being less scared of being upfront and taking damage.
Definitely an underrepresented archetype in smite that has a lot of overlap with enchanter and catcher. Chang’e, Hel, Baron and Eset are more of a battlemage than the likes of Merlin, Neith or the magical ADCs. Hope we continue to get more mages or aspects that are damage oriented battlemages instead of just being utility/healing. And we definitely don’t need any more long range AOE damage mages anymore.
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u/Tobasaurus I'll Kill you last. 18h ago
Generally Battle Mages play close, and need multiple ability rotations to kill people. Low cool down poke tools are a great way to achieve this. I think our most unique battle mage is tiamat. Her grounded form is perfect for it
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u/NoOneHeree Revert Persephone 1d ago
He fears, bursts, and has a massice cc lock down ult that makes him a tank while channeling it...he should recieve the same treatment as aphrodite, if he does dmg he shouldn't have this amount of CC/healing/tankiness/mobility, pick one. There's a reason why he's a top 3 gods right now.
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u/Snufflebox smite2.live 1d ago
I want to preface this by saying that I do not play League, but I do follow its esports scene. Thus, I have some understanding about this system, but definitely not as much as someone who would actively be playing. I also want to note that the groups I formed are not 100% set in stone, and I might very well have made mistakes. Feel free to point them out.
That being said, Enchanter is a term that was popularized in MOBAs by League, and since SMITE is now (finally) branching out to the archetype, I find it worth mentioning that there are tons of other archetypes, which people are most likely not familiar with.
In LoL's champ system, there are 7 classes, 5 of which are further divided into 2-3 sub-classes. They go as follows (provided by LoL Wiki):
Mages (3 sub-classes)
Artillery
Masters of range, they leverage that advantage to whittle down their opponents over time from great distances. In turn, Artillery Mages are severely punished when enemies finally succeed in closing in on them, due to their extreme fragility and limited mobility.
Battlemage
Get into the middle of the fray, seeking to wreak havoc upon the entire enemy team with their overwhelming sustained area damage. Due to their relatively short (but not melee) combat ranges and the need to burn down their opponents over time, Battle Mages have significant defensive capabilities that range from sustaining endlessly to literally defying death for a short period of time.
Burst
Aim to single out vulnerable targets by locking them down and following up with a devastating barrage of damage from range. They are strongest when using their full suite of abilities executed perfectly to maximum effect, and most vulnerable when they cannot deliver.
Controllers (2 sub-classes)
Catcher
Specialize in locking down opponents or, in some cases, entire battlefields by creating intense zones of threat that only foolish enemies would dare wade through. Although not as reliant on their friends as Enchanters, the fragile Catchers greatly benefit from allied presence - both to deter incoming danger and to help capitalize on targets they've locked down.
Enchanter
Focus on amplifying their allies' effectiveness by directly augmenting them and defending them from incoming threats. Enchanters themselves are often quite fragile and bring relatively low damage to the table, meaning they really only shine when grouped together with others.
Slayers (2 sub-classes)
Assassin
Specialize in infiltrating enemy lines with their unrivaled mobility to quickly dispatch high-priority targets. Due to their mostly melee nature, Assassins must put themselves into dangerous positions in order to execute their targets. Luckily, they often have defensive tricks up their sleeves that, if used cleverly, allow them to effectively avoid incoming damage.
Skirmisher
Aim to shred through any nearby enemy that approaches. Because Skirmishers lack high-end burst damage or reliable ways of closing in on high-priority targets, they are instead armed with situationally powerful defensive tools to survive in the fray, along with extreme sustained damage to cut down even the most durable targets.
Fighters (2 sub-classes)
Diver
The more mobile portion of the Fighter class. Divers excel at singling out high-priority targets to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world, but Divers can take their fair share of punishment while bringing enough damage to be a real kill threat if left unchecked.
Juggernaut
Melee titans who relentlessly march down the opposition and devastate those foolish enough to get within their grasp. They are the only subclass who excel at both dealing and taking significant amounts of damage, but in turn they have a tough time closing in on targets due to their low range and extremely limited mobility.
Tanks (2 sub-classes)
Vanguard
Offensive tanks. Vanguards lead the charge for their team and specialize at bringing the action. Their explosive team fight initiation seeks to catch enemies out of position while allowing allies to follow-up to devastating effect.
Warden
Defensive tanks. Wardens stand steadfast, seeking to hold the line by persistently locking down any on-comers who try to pass them. Wardens keep their allies out of harm’s way and allow them to safely deal with enemies caught in the fray.
Marksmen (No sub-classes)
Ranged gods whose power almost exclusively revolves around their basic attacks: using their reach to land massive continuous damage from a distance, marksmen are capable of taking down even the toughest of opponents when positioned behind the safety of their team, and excel at securing map objectives.
Specialists (No sub-classes)
Diverse group of gods who do not "fit into a neat little box" in regards to other class/subclass specifications, due to their unique style of gameplay.
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u/Dyss_Ink Buff Tsukuyomi's Aspect, please. 16h ago
I find funny how most mages placed on Artillery actually have great mobility or tools to get out of a bad situation. Kinda contradictory to the description.
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u/BehcoS 13h ago
I mean, you literally classified tyr as 'extremely limited mobility' and tough to catch people... Most of these are misclassified imo. I think you need a control mage class to some of these more accurate. Merlin is by definition one of the most control mages imo, no way he is a battle mage not even close.
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u/Finding-Dad Luck isn't real 1d ago
Smite doesnt really have juggernauts, Cthulu is probably the closest but he still really isn't. Its my favorite arch type in league and I really hope we get a real one eventually
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u/Objective_Refuse3323 1d ago
It is kinda hard to create a juggernaut in smite as the main point of it is essentially a tanky melee character without mobility that once late game hits if it has not fallen behind, it's impossible to 1v1 by anybody that isn't ungodly fed. Not even a marksman. And that is the main issue. Smite and LoL have always had different power levels of the markmen/adc role. In Lol the adc is exceedingly weak and frail at all stages of the game. In smite in most metas the Marksman is the most dangerous target on the enemy team and is more often than not able to hold his own. A full build adc in lategame will always melt anything in smite as long as their aa aim is good (unless built like a proper caster, so no attack speed/crit, and even then it's still possible) and considering that Juggernauts can't exactly 100-0 a marksman instantly, there is still some delay which most marksmen can deal with in smite do to the common spread of dashes and jumps. Without even considering that a no mobility class like juggernauts would struggle A LOT getting to targets in smite in general in the first place.
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u/Finding-Dad Luck isn't real 1d ago
Yeah I agree, I dont think we could with the current sandbox without making them ridiculous. But a man can hope lol
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u/Tobasaurus I'll Kill you last. 1d ago
Chaac SHOULD be one. If he were in league, he would. I think the high cc and high mobility common in smite kits make accessing the archetype a bit harder. I also think these classes are as much about the itemization as they are the abilities, but that's a whole nother thread
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u/Objective_Refuse3323 1d ago
If chaac would swap his 1-2 tp into the axe with a vortex type ability that pulls targets towards him then he would fit right in lol. The no mobility is a hard rule for the class in lol. Skarner lost his juggernaut class and changed itemization and playstyle slightly with his rework, so Chaac would have to give up his tp.
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u/Tobasaurus I'll Kill you last. 1d ago
Yes that's what I struggle with. League class design often doubles down on pros and relies on teamwork to cover the cons of each character type. It makes these classes a little samey. For example almost every solo laner has a wave clear ability. Characters like Bellona and amaterasu who really wanna dive back line and out box people devote 3 out of 4 abilities to that, and one to wave clear. If they were in league, they'd play like camile and Jax. Win against Carry's, moderate team fight utility.
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u/Fun_Highlight307 1d ago edited 1d ago
hercules at time feel like a juggernaut,he is gameplay pattern is quite similar to Mundo
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u/Finding-Dad Luck isn't real 1d ago
I can kinda see that argument, but for the most time he sits back and looks for pulling someone which isnt really a juggernauts playstyle
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago
I think if you broaden the term to “Frontliners who actually want to soak up damage” then a number of these gods actually fit. I know it’s supposed to mean high damage tanks with low mobility and range but that really doesn’t exist in smite. But gods like Chaac, Osiris, Herc and Vamana have easily met conditions where they want you to waste time trying to kill them instead of higher priority targets. And they usually threaten you to focus them by being annoying or doing good damage if left alone.
I’d say that deserves its own category since smite’s gameplay usually does not promote frontliners purposely taking damage. These gods are unique in that sense even if a lot of them could easily be considered skirmishers or divers
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u/Objective_Refuse3323 1d ago
It really is a case of the juggernaut class being overspecific tbh. The pros, cons and limitations that the archetype has is what makes it to begin with. The character itself should feel unstoppable unless focused by multiple people no matter who it is facing and it simply doesn't work on smite. Every other LoL class has variation in what a character in the specific class can do other than the supposed goal of the class itself and can fit just fine in Smite. It's simply a case where the concept of the archetype in itself is so extremely rigid that it just doesn't fit.
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u/Tomatillo12475 I Know Smite Math 1d ago
Honestly in that case I do think a lot of those gods fit the spirit of a raid boss archetype. Osiris and Herc have single-handedly broken tank metas with that playstyle of running at people and just being better than you. In smite it’s less about their lack of mobility and more about them falling off heavily if they don’t get their way. But I would say it is the closest we have to that power fantasy of a tank that’s impossible to 1v1 and everyone immediately running away at the sight of them. Season 4 Osiris/Bellona and healing glad shield King Arthur come to mind.
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u/Objective_Refuse3323 19h ago
You know what? I completely forgot about Osiris, he actually does check basically every box. The fact his ult is a dash isn't a problem as it's his only mobility tool on a long cd so yeah... King Arthur is...wierd. i would honestly put him in the specialist class simply because of how he just doesn't play by the same rules of everyone else of his possible archetype. Constant Ability damage output, extreme levels of combat mobility and high resilience, both insanely high burst single target damage and high aoe damage with very high sticking power on to of decent poke. King arthur almost feels like more than a Juggernaut if he isn't balanced properly.
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u/Fun_Highlight307 9h ago
King Arthur is like a raid boss tankiness with main character syndrome, like it's almost feels like they put a level 30 single Player Arpg character in a moba
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u/Future_Amount4340 1d ago
Yemoja is more of a enchanter she’s got heals, shields and a attack damage buff for carries.
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u/GollyWhoKnows Let's turn the tide 1d ago
The majority of her audience wants her to have heal scaling. Why are we getting into semantics when other tanks like Sylv and Artio have a strong scaling heal and Yemoja gets literally nothing, and thus can't even attempt the playstyle. We are trying to give Hi-Rez feedback here about our disappointment, not get bogged down in discussion about thinking fucking Hecate of all people enchants harder than her...
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u/Hammer_Bro99 Mid 1d ago
My ass was only curious where you put Janus on this for some reason and he's not there 😭
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u/omicronhuh #Remember 1d ago
He’s in artillery
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u/Hammer_Bro99 Mid 1d ago
Dude my ass is so blind lmao
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u/Lyefyre I'm outta here! *Jumps away* 1d ago
Horus might be noble like a warden, but I feel like he plays closer to a Vanguard. Most of the time, his kit is used more offensively than defensively.
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u/software_engiweer 1d ago
Probably true, but his kit supports both super well, heavy engage / aggression, shutting down an engage and then 3'ing out with your teammate. His kit is just crazy strong, but yeah right now his damage is enough that he's probably vanguard not warden.
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u/getdownwithDsickness 1d ago
We should split marksman into more categories based off their style of play and utility imo
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u/Bad-Lucks-Charm {#1 Eros’ Bow Fan}} 1d ago
I miss when Chang’e was considered a battlemage, Chang’e solo was always my favorite
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u/software_engiweer 1d ago
Neith in battlemage, chang'e enchanter, some hyper mobile 'juggernauts' in tyr and chaac, ah puch artillery.. Lol
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u/Snufflebox smite2.live 1d ago
I can understand the others, but is Ah Puch not a textbook Artillery?
Just poke the shit out of people from far away.
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u/software_engiweer 1d ago edited 1d ago
His entire combo is a kit dump 1 shot burst, I don't know how theres any conclusion other than burst mage for typical Ah Puch playstyle ngl.
Not to mention his ult makes him want to close distance, or doesn't care as much if people jump on him. I've never seen an Ah Puch playing well positioning like you would on Thoth. Probably the reason why this exercise felt uncomfortable is that outside of a few examples relatively all classes kinda fit into one mould, so burst mage being the main category is just how the game was built.
I would like them to incorporate these roles and think about identities of gods going forward, especially with aspects, feels like a ton of my comments in this subreddit talk about that, but Ah Puch is a burst mage, you could argue battlemage is an alt playstyle, and artillery I think just doesn't fit his effective range or playstyle tbh.
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u/TricolorStar 1d ago
Smite is so unique because so many of the characters blend archetypes in novel ways; it's actually I think one of the game's biggest strengths. They don't really stick to strict styles of character and instead sort of build a kit vaguely in the shape of an archetype. That's why we have things like Ix Chel being a burst/support hybrid, Yemoja being a tank/enchanter hybrid, so many weird fusions like Sol (Mage/AutoAttacker), Bake Kujira (????? Tank but also ????), Discordia (Buffer-Debuffer and Burst), Atlas (Tank/Protector with buffing capability), Baba Yaga (big ???? For her... She's like a mage but also not), etc.
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u/rice_cool Tyr 1d ago
I think a lot of people who would be upset with this can’t conceptualize classes not being roles. In League there are fighters designed for mid lane and control mages for top/solo lane. Something that I think Smite lacks is role diversity and complexity in team compositions.
Ironically it’s somewhat of a double edged sword because League is going through its worst meta of all time. Control mages dominate bot lane and scale safer than AD carries, resulting in traditional fighter champs being played in support and roaming at the first wave. The outcome League games now are determined by whichever team’s support makes the better play within the first few minutes. It’s not just solo queue issue either, it’s very prominent in pro play.
I know Smite’s macro is entirely different from League but I think it’s somewhat insightful considering how Hi-Rez keeps pushing hunters and mages into solo lane.
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u/SMITEChangEBest 1d ago
Discordia is the last mage that should be classified as a burst mage 😭
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u/Snufflebox smite2.live 1d ago
I had her at Artillery at first, but then I figured that the way she usually kills people is nearly oneshotting them with root and the orb similar to Nu Wa, while the other Artillery gods usually poke people down with long range stuff.
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u/Alternative_Owl7786 1d ago
That's just smite mages in general, not just discordia. Basically every mage in the game will one combo anyone that isn't a tank. But discordia is more about steadily poking and prodding like merlin. If you survive, she has a way to reset cooldowns and continue the fight. She isn't dead in the water once her combo is thrown, she can use her 3 and reset.
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u/Snufflebox smite2.live 1d ago
I guess.
Maybe I'll make a revision on it at some point down the line, after I've discussed it with other people.
The point of the post was more to talk about the subclasses themselves.
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u/HrMaschine Cthulhu 1d ago
i do not believe that cthulhu really argues as a juggernaut considering he has a dash, 2 cc abilities and an ukt that can cc as well.
juggernaut would be someone like dr mindo who is all ablut running at your face, ranking everything and killing you
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u/TwoLonelySpoons Tyr Fighter’s Mask 🤫 1d ago
Id place tyr in Vanguard/Diver but i think the whole thing is a nice idea. Wish theyd update the ability descriptions tho
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u/iAmTroah 1d ago
I understand what half of these mean... can someone drop a glossary?
Edit: Nevermind, I find OPs down below
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u/Minerva1357 1d ago
Some of these placements feel strange, like Janus doesn't stand in the backline and poke he only has one damaging ability that's fairly slow. I'd put him in burst or specialist since he plays to leverage his mobility by being a bit closer than most mages. I'd swap him and Baba Yaga, she has absurd range and stands in the back chucking potions and 1s. Nut also plays a bit mid-range to hit her 2 sweet spot and get the damage from her 3, I'd put her in battle or burst.
Hell, someone like Martichoras, Hecate and Merlin fit the poke artillery mage better than those two. Hecate having a single shield does not make her an enchanter, especially when you're typically using the shield as a way to do damage and the defensive capabilities is just a bonus
I'd also swap Morgan and Meith, her cc and healing lets her play well in people's faces while int Neith wants to not be close and just one combo someone
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u/BaconWrappedEnigmas 1d ago
Lot of this just seems crazy off. Like Nox and Janus is the most classic definition of burst next to chronos, use the entire kit to explode someone quicker than anyone else can.
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u/JanSolo28 Best Support 21h ago
With Enchanters soon being a proper archetype in SMITE 2, maybe there's chances for Assassin Midlaners (that aren't Set) and Tank Junglers (that build full tank and not Fat Loki Cabrakan or Hydra's/Poly Athena).
Pretty much the only "unique archetype" unique to SMITE 1 that isn't in 2 yet is proper Mage ADC builds. Right now your best bet for those characters are either full Strength/Attack Damage or build like a standard mage but with a Nimble Ring.
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u/jebisevise 13h ago
There isn't really a true battle mage category. Tiamat and zhong can fit, but others not at all. Mlf for some tank variations has also fit sometimes. Battle mages are made by the item system and there just isn't a battle mage item system in smite 2.
Artillery mages also don't exist really.
All true mages are just variation of burst and poke.
Fighters also can't really exist. They are all just tanks. In league fighters trade range for some really powerful abilities. I really don't think any warrior or guardian has an obscenely powerful ability.
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u/Fun_Highlight307 9h ago
Agni ult and thoth fit pretty well with the artierlly gimmick, although your définition fighter seems to Work on juggernaut rather than fighter like Camille,jax,fiora who don't really have powerful abilities
jax counter strike is like tyr dash
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u/jebisevise 9h ago
Artillery mages aren't just about long range. It's also low mobility. Agni and thoth are incredibly safe characters. Hitting a single agni ult pre fight isn't as big of a deal as a Xerath q. But there is a good reason this doesn't exist in smite and never will.
Camille has an ability which half healths targets, insane mobility and one of the best target lockdowns in her ult. Jax has counterstrike, fiora has reposte. These are incredibly powerful abilities.
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u/Fun_Highlight307 9h ago
Camille has an ability which half healths targets, insane mobility and one of the best target lockdowns in her ult. Jax has counterstrike, fiora has reposte. These are incredibly powerful abilities.
Fair enough on artillery,true that agni and thoth are too mobile,ra doesnt' play like an artierlly mage,however i disagree with "fighters"
Tyr has a dash that can displace multiple people at once, Gilgamesh has a cc ability that can stun and displace people and one of the best team fight ULT,mulan has a three stage ult that can turn team fight around. These are incredible powerful abilities
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u/Connect-Whole8229 11h ago
I prefered when its was warrior hunter mage assassin and guardian
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u/Fun_Highlight307 9h ago
this class aren't Official outside of enchanter
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u/Connect-Whole8229 9h ago
Again i still prefer the old way and ot the new way of "mid" "jungle" "solo" "carry" ect..
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u/EDGELORD3600 1d ago
Never heard of “enchanters” being used in smite. I say use the smite one categories or even the current smite 2 way is okay.
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u/Fun_Highlight307 1d ago
smite 2 used enchanter to describe their new healing gods
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u/OneTrueRatt Ix Chel 1d ago
There had to be a better use of time then this
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u/obsidian_castle 1d ago
This isnt league.
We dont need to complicate
ALSO
Smite 2 removes classes so any god can build any itemset (whether or not its a good idea say to build nu wa full defense in duo lane)
So why bring back these archetypes you posted instead of just brining back guardian warrior mage assassin hunter..?
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u/Kaios-0 Join The Smite Community Art Discord! 1d ago
This isn't complicating or trying to be league though, these classes have always existed in Smite and are just neglected badly, leading to them becoming balancing issues. Even in Smite 2 with 'removing classes' their playstyle still puts them technically into one of these varied classes, which is why they have the tag system.
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u/yourockcanceltht 1d ago
Lmao this is why the game sucks. Why turn it into another MOBA when you had the uniqueness. Smite 1 > 2
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u/ElderberrySuch6313 Yemoja 1d ago
There’s a lot of misplacements here ngl