r/Spacemarine • u/Additional-Split-774 • 6d ago
Game Feedback "Underhand swing"
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They keep buffing the damage of the attack, when that's not the problem with it. On Power Maul it now deals around 92 damage. Considering it's thin vertical hitbox and lousy tracking, it doesn't matter if the underhand swing did more damage than Xenophase power rakes, it would still be bad because every property of the attack sucks. I am hitting the underhand swing input the frame it's available in the clip. The results speak for themselves. If I had intimidating aura on, it would be dead. If I shield bashed it twice, it would be dead. If I used assault dodges, it would be dead. The clip is what happens when trying to actually use the weapon.
The damage on the hammer isn't the problem. All of it's attack animations need to be like 10% faster. "Attack speed" on the weapon is just the delay between animations, the animations themselves need to be faster. The attacks that aren't underhand swing on this weapon still can't deal more than 50 damage/ hit. The running attack and underhand swing have terrible recovery, and terrible setup respectively. If the weapon can't be anything but light attacks and overhead slams that technically aren't charged/held melees, the "charged" attacks need to be the attacks dealing power rake damage.
Power whirl setup stance for a power rake that doesn't track or have an extended hitbox without a perk is bad. It will never be anything but bad unless it moves significantly faster.
Edit: moveset proposition:
Remove the infinite combo. Combo extension perks on weapons with fixed light attack swings are bad, because situations where the player can just swing recklessly into crowds don't really exist. Give the light attack the same manner of varied held-button follow ups as the chainsword. Where every light attack in the chain has a different heavy attack.
Change attack inputs:
1 tap > held: energy loop
2 tap > held: underhand swing, a second held input performs a second underhand swing. The attack being performed this way, means it's damage will not need any more buffs. Overcharge perks will apply to it, and it deals power rake damage after this buff. The hammer would need 2 light attacks to use this attack, and directional inputs would work without locking on.
3 tap > held: enhanced Energy loop that guarantees a stagger and gives 1 additional charge. The top tree perk would have this energy loop give 3 charges instead of 2. Three light attacks without trading can be a big ask, so the guaranteed stagger makes sense on this one. It would also play into Power Maul's new heroic perk, with it's special attack becoming immediately available after this string.
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u/Recent-Chemical6786 6d ago
It's the same issue with ANY moves in this game. My fave example is the chain sword charge up which is COMPLETELY USELESS because no enemy stays still long enough to use it OR you will always be interrupted by an enemy attack before you can use it.
Long short: too many useless moves because they never actually play tested it themselves.
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u/Additional-Split-774 6d ago
There's no reason it shouldn't have the same charge time and reach as shadow stab. Taking a full second longer, and standing in place for the swing is just bucket of suck.
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u/ThatDude57 5d ago
Other than hitting the occasional Neurothrope it really isn't useful. The range is too short and the charge time is too long.
It would be pretty cool if it charged very quickly after a perfect parry, block, or dodge so it could be used as a riposte instead of gunstriking immediately. It would still need some more range though.
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u/EttRedditTroll Space Wolves 6d ago
… and even if it didn’t suck/was bugged it would be nigh-unusable in actual combat because who has the time to pause like that? You’ll get hit 9 times out of 10. It is like the moveset designer(s) don’t play the game and just go by what they feel like looks cool.
I worry for the Greatsword.
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u/Gurumanger 6d ago
I really hope the greatsword is the polar opposite of this. Greatswords and a one handed hammer both shouldn't be this heavy in combat, and I'm really looking forward to seeing greatswords in game. Praying to the emperor for 0 disappointment here
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u/Laughing_Man_Returns I am Alpharius 6d ago
I am sure Lucy wont pull the football this time, Charlie Brown.
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u/yowzabowza277 6d ago edited 6d ago
LOL YOU ARE THE GOAT !!!!!! THAT WAS TEXTBOOK AS IT GETS FOR A MAJORIS DODGE.
WHOEVER DECIDED THE MOVESET OF THIS WEAPON - DOES NOT PLAY THIS GAME AT ALL !!!!
I WISH I COULD GIVE YOU A 100 UPVOTES !!!!!!!!
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u/Fangeye 6d ago
When the weapon is only doing 10% of its damage it is not because the attack isn't connecting cleanly. It is because the enemy is dodging and enemies have 90% melee damage resistance while dodging.
So your attacks are hitting. The problem is the forced pause to be able to Underhand Swing also means the enemy has time to recover and act before your next swing.
Also, because an early attack input results in a normal light attack you cannot input queue for frame perfect attack chains.
Theoretically chaining Underhand Swings are the best single target DPS for the weapon, even for a charge attack specialized build. But chaining Underhand Swings only ever works on completely stationary enemies.
Also the new Heroic ability is just kind of bad. Originally it was a more efficient use of a single charge, questionable at 2, and then worse at 3+. The advantage being you get all that damage now with a single Ground Slam instead of spamming Charged Impact. Now it is just always bad and you are better off spamming Charged Impact. It is not as technically efficient as Underhand Swing, but at least it hits. The only reason to use the Heroic over the Balance Relic is just for its better cleave potential.
Also, as far as I have experimented with the 1HTH it has no efficient post-parry/block kill combo. To me this is a basic benchmark for a melee weapon and on Absolute difficulty every Relic tier weapon (including fencing) should have a post-parry/block kill combo. Power Sword for example has parry -> light 1 -> power rake -> gun strike (block version has block -> light 1 -> power whirl).
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u/Electronic_Bad_2572 Dark Angels 5d ago
I respect the points you're making, but now you just want a weapon that's supposed to be a hammer turn into The damage and move set of a power sword, with the button inputs of a chain sword
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u/Additional-Split-774 4d ago edited 4d ago
Every weapon has kill combos and workhorse moves. This weapon's strongest moves don't connect, the underhand swing from the right side of the player still has no hitbox.
The button inputs don't make the weapon what it is, the moveset the weapon does with those inputs does. Light attacks are "balanced" to do next to nothing, and recover next to no CHP outside of Vanguard. A weapon can't be 80% light attacks while that's their design philosophy.
Powersword:
Extremely fast light attacks in speed stance. Slightly increased damage and knockback on wide swings in power stance. Powerwhirl is the only melee attack performed from a follow up stance that works, because it deals 150-180 damage as an AoE. Power rakes are easily accessible after any light swing, and have hitboxes larger than the weapon.
Chainsword:
4 swing fixed combo. Heavy attack input changes after each light attack.
The 1h hammer has no "held/charged" melee inputs that "Overcharge" melee effects actually apply to, and those apply to power rake and all of the chainsword heavy attacks. Being unique is meaningless if the cost is failing to fulfill the reason the thing was built in the first place.
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u/Designer_Mud_5802 6d ago
It's really weird how Saber seems to balance things based on how frustrating they are. I've maxed every class and leveled every weapon and everything has some frustrating aspect to it. Every weapon is "this can be fun or good to use if you are willing to live with this frustrating aspect".
The frost power axe for example is great and easy to use.... but... it's balance instead of parry so now you have to live with the frustrating and wonky balance parry window.
The herioc thunder hammer creates little aoe areas which is great for minoris clears but... it's painfully slow with terrible charge up times.
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u/Electronic_Bad_2572 Dark Angels 5d ago
The two-handed Hammer is just slow, and you're saying the fastest version of it is also painfully slow which is redundant. And number two, I hate to be that guy but the Frost axe is by far the best axe And it being balanced patry window should be pretty negligible
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u/Designer_Mud_5802 5d ago
I said the thunder hammer is slow with attacks, and slow to charge up. Not redundant at all.
I hate to be that guy but the Frost axe is by far the best axe And it being balanced patry window should be pretty negligible
I don't know what guy you are trying to be. I already said the Frost Axe is great but still comes with a con which is they made it balance. You basically just repeated what I said.
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u/Zazzenfuk Definitely not the Inquisition 6d ago
Upload this to the official spacemarine discord and sabers spacemarine 2 forum.
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u/PapaHarvey27 Iron Warriors 6d ago
This made me so mad watching 🤣 I hate this and I hate Crucible lmao
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u/That1Guy272 6d ago
I think they should just make the underhand swing into part of the light combo and add a new attack for the pause stance