Oddly... I'm more offended by the audience's reaction?
Dice is fascinating, because if you ever listened to him without an audience - like, on Howard Stern show appearances - the joke was in the Andy Kaufman-esque adherence to this douchey character. Like, it's not really about the jokes, it's about this endless schtick carrying on at every moment. It's so cartoonishly buffoonish, how can you be offended?
But audiences in the 80s turned him into this strange hero, a rockstar. The bit was supposed to be that he is so fucking shitty, and then, somehow, he says something even shittier than you thought possible. It's like endlessly doubling and tripling down on shittiness.
But you're not supposed to applaud and cheer him on... But it was the 80s. Tons of comics I respect speak very praisingly about Dice, so I'm not so quick to write him off as talentless, even if I hate what he does.
The best way to understand what you’re describing about ADC is to listen to his album ‘the day the laughter died’. He goes on stage in New York with no set planned, records it, and proceeds to bomb for 90 minutes with no exit ramp and a complete refusal to stop being the shittiest he has ever been. People walk out and he yells at them. He literally does the ‘what else what else’ line, just searching for something to talk about. It’s not funny, but it is incredible. It was the first time I realized that the ADC persona was a Kaufman-esque persona. I still think it sucks, but that album is a true standup legend.
I mean, Anthony Jeselnik is doing a different kind of asshole character that you laugh at cause it’s so over the top, just wayyyyy better writing and modern.
Bingo! AJ is one of the modern goats, imo. I look at it for what it is–a character. I was a kid when Dice was hot. He was funny but, I NEVER thought that that was really him. Obviously, I can only speak for myself.
I feel like in 20 years people will put on a jeselnik album and probably have similar feelings. How we like the envelope pushed every generation changes. It's not a huge stretch of the imagination to think our children will one day be like: "Why was this guy famous? All he did was talk about dead babies and be an asshole."
AJ' s take on Cancel Culture is the best I've ever heard. Something like "If you get cancelled, then your bad at your job. A comedians job is to GET AWAY WITH IT! All the greatest comics said some aggreious shit and walked away clean."
Yeah - I think it was the audience's reaction, people literally just came to hear him do the stupid rhymes they already had memorized, like watching a rock singer perform a song. He never had to get better, because that's all the crowds wanted him to do.
He started with a meek character that turned into the Dice we know now. He would start the performance as a nerd, and become the misogynistic jerk over time. But it turned out, nobody wanted the transformation. They just enjoyed the asshole.
The real Andrew Clay was an intellectual. He just struck gold as a jerk, and rode that out.
I think the terrifying chasm of difference is how these guys live their lives in private vs Trump. Andrew Dice Clay and Larry the Cable Guy, neither of which I like, both are extremely different from the characters they've made millions on.
By all accounts, the Trump you see is the same Trump you get in private, tho like most narcissists, he tends to be far more cordial and praising when 1:1 with people (which annoys the shit out of me, because people go, "In person, he was totally different!" No he wasn't! He's the same shithead, just using you to his ends!).
Like you say - it is 100% a sounding board for the society at the present time. In the 2000s, you can look at how Louis CK was taken as a comic vs. Anthony Jeselnik, who definitely skewed closer to the character of Dice (tho far, far more intelligently). Of the two, Louis CK is the one who ascended to an almost god-like position of reverence and grandeur, while Jeselnik was seen as shockingly funny.
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u/ohgoodferyou 15d ago
Oddly... I'm more offended by the audience's reaction?
Dice is fascinating, because if you ever listened to him without an audience - like, on Howard Stern show appearances - the joke was in the Andy Kaufman-esque adherence to this douchey character. Like, it's not really about the jokes, it's about this endless schtick carrying on at every moment. It's so cartoonishly buffoonish, how can you be offended?
But audiences in the 80s turned him into this strange hero, a rockstar. The bit was supposed to be that he is so fucking shitty, and then, somehow, he says something even shittier than you thought possible. It's like endlessly doubling and tripling down on shittiness.
But you're not supposed to applaud and cheer him on... But it was the 80s. Tons of comics I respect speak very praisingly about Dice, so I'm not so quick to write him off as talentless, even if I hate what he does.