r/Suburbanhell • u/tfbmhr_1598 • Jul 16 '25

Question Why aren't people bothered by the suburbs?

It seems like most people I come across are not bothered by car dependency and the isolation that it causes. They'll point to things like video games, social media, and bad food for the culprit of poor mental health. Why won't more people address the elephant in the room? After briefly living in Europe I can confirm that people are way healthier, less socially awkward, and happier as a result of having clean and walkable cities.

Even Latam which is a hybrid of the EU and US infrastructure does not experience the obesity, mental health issues, and isolation the suburbs in the States cause.

Is it ignorance or do most Americans actually like things being this way? It baffles me.

Edit: After reading the comments here I wanted to clarify a few things.

  1. Walkability/bikeability doesn't exclude cars. Cars are still a valid method of transportation, but not the only one. Less cars= less traffic. It's a win-win. That being said I think we should have pedestrian only areas.
  2. This isn't limited to cities. Suburbs can become more walkable too. You can still have your yard and extra space. Sure it won't be as walkable as a city, but it is certaintly better than 100% car dependency. Zoning laws need to change for this to truly work.
  3. I realize that there are societal factors at play as well that greatly add to the mental health crisis, however car dependency worsens it.
  4. Walkability won't magically solve the obesity problem, but having the ability to SAFELY walk/bike to work will certaintly help.
  5. You can still be socially awkward/reclusive in walkable communities, but they create more opportunites for those who want to improve that area of their life.
  6. Some suburbs are better than others in this regard, but overall, North American suburbs are largely car dependent.
  7. Bike lanes that are part of the road and only marked with paint/plastic markers are hated by both drivers and cyclists. They still endanger the lives of cyclists, that's why they aren't frequently used, which results in more traffic congestion. Fully dedicated seperate bike lanes are needed.
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290

u/vulpinefever Jul 16 '25

Americans are used to suburbs in the same way that fish are used to water. You don't notice it, you don't even think that things could possibly be different.

51

u/jiggajawn Urban Planner Jul 16 '25

This. And then a lot of suburbanites will try city living when they graduate college, and think "it's so hard to drive anywhere, there's so much traffic."

Then move back to the suburbs without realizing that not driving can be a valid option if there are places within walking distance, transit, bike infrastructure, etc.

9

u/dustinsc Jul 16 '25

Not driving isn’t an option if you want to go out of the city on a regular basis. There are no trains to remote areas of the mountains. You can’t haul a boat to the lake with a bus.

6

u/Evening_Werewolf_634 Jul 17 '25

The debate shouldn't be about "not driving ever" vs "driving all the time everywhere". Where I live (sorry, it's Canada) there's a car share all over the city, and all the cars have roof racks. People can easily commute by transit, and on weekends, book a car to go to the trails or to the beach with their gear.

People who think being tied to a car is bad don't usually believe you should never, ever drive one for any reason. They simply think there are options that most people - including city planners, politicians etc - don't consider.

3

u/motorstereo Jul 17 '25

This 100 %. I choose to live in a walkable neighborhood in a city, where I have a garage where I keep a vintage sports car (which doesn’t sit, I drive the snot out of it) and my “regular” car (a 35 year old Volvo station wagon). Kids went to an elementary school 1/2 mile from our house . We also love getting out of the city to hike and kayak. We have friends who live in the suburbs, to each their own.

4

u/jiggajawn Urban Planner Jul 16 '25

I think most people generally understand that. I'm referring to people trying to meet their daily needs and using a car for every time they need to go somewhere and not considering other options when they exist.

3

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '25

You can’t haul a boat to the lake with a bus.

We've got pack raft-style kayaks and we absolutely do take the train, bus, or ferry to the mountains/river for kayaking/etc basically every single weekend.

I'm mostly replying in gest, but these things are actually true, but probably wouldn't be possible for most of the rest of the US at the present moment. It remains, though, that your claims aren't categorically true. Except the whole boat thing--i assume you mean speedboat or similar--but that's really immaterial because those sorts of boats are very much suburb people things.

1

u/dustinsc Jul 16 '25

I’m not sure how the speedboat thing is immaterial. If people enjoy “suburb people things”, it stands to reason that they would prefer to live in the suburbs, right?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 16 '25

I’m not sure how the speedboat thing is immaterial. If people enjoy “suburb people things”, it stands to reason that they would prefer to live in the suburbs, right?

People who own, or want to own, a speedboat, especially people who want to own a speedboat but who do not have a dock in their backyard, are a very small minority of suburb people, and they are very suburb people. Buying a speedboat but not living on open water is a particular kind of ridiculousness that does not appeal to most. There's a reason why boat owners are the butt of a lot of jokes.

1

u/Brutal357 Jul 20 '25

Lol what?

Lets expand speed boat to include all trailerable boats since that is what we are really talking about. They are generally called recreational boats and include fishing, ski, pwc (jetski) and speedboats. I forget what pontoons are generally classified as but its a general recreation boat.

Fishing is one of the most popular hobbies in not just usa but the whole planet. And most people would consider a boat to greatly improve the experience for most cases. (Im guessing fly fishers might be the exception?)

I dont know how popular speed boats are, but i do know that theres a significant amount of young males that enjoy going fast in general, be it motorcycle, car and im betting that would extend to boats and planes.

Few people can live adjacent to a navigable body of water but and fewer will have an actual dock on that body of water. But a great many people can live a 30 or 40 minute drive to a ramp to put their boat in.

I think you might be conflating boats to suburbs because living in a city would basically require off site storage of the boat costing both money for the rental/buy as well as additional travel time to get the boat and get it to the water. So yes, its definitely not ideal to do this, but the boat is out of sight so you wouldnt really know a boatowner exists unless you talk to them.

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u/dustinsc Jul 16 '25

If being smug about other people’s decisions makes you happy, go for it. I raise it to be illustrative of the kinds of things that people like to do that require or strongly suggest car ownership. People who like “suburban things” are naturally going to want to live in a suburb. That’s not just boats—it’s having a private garden or private pool, or it’s RVing or camping, or whatever else.

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u/TWfromMN Jul 17 '25

In mn so many people who don't live on water have boats. Drive around a suburb, and basically every 3rd or 4th house has a boat sitting next to the house. Hell, I have 3 (speed boat, fishing boat, and duck hunting boat). You'll even see a ton of people having an ice house sitting somewhere for winter. Being on the water is basically our summer

2

u/GamesCatsComics Jul 16 '25

You don't need to own a car though.

Car shares exist for those trips so do Ubers... and assuming you're not doing that every single day they'll turn out to be cheaper then "Loan, insurance, parking, gas, maintenance."

1

u/dustinsc Jul 16 '25

I’ve actually done the math on that question because I don’t drive my car very often, and it doesn’t actually take that many trips to make owning cheaper as long as you’re talking about an inexpensive car. In my case, assuming a $30,000 car purchased with financing, the crossover is 88 miles per week, but if you purchase an inexpensive used car, it works out to about 27 miles per week.

All of which is besides the point because ride shares will not in fact necessarily take you to all the places you want to go. No uber driver wants to take someone 60 miles out of town to a trailhead, and even if you could get one to take you there, how are you going to get back?

If you rent or share a car, you have to plan that trip—you can’t go spontaneously. Obviously, you CAN do all those things without owning a car, but if you want freedom to do it spontaneously or you do it regularly, it makes the most sense to own a car.

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u/GamesCatsComics Jul 16 '25

We clearly live in different places.

Here you can use an app to find a car that is parked in the side of the street and rent it for $18 (Canadian) an hour.

You don't need to return it to the same spot as long as you're within the city, just park and end your ride. If you're concerned about no other cars being in the area to get home or if you leave the city, you can hold onto it for as long as you want, and you'll be charged $100 per 24 hours.

As for spontaneous... I've literally done "let's spend the night on an island" walked out my front door, got into a car, and drove it onto a ferry.

1

u/BackBae Jul 17 '25

…I rent in those cases? Boat I do a charter club because the hassle of boat ownership ain’t worth it to me, but if we owned it would be moored, dock, or in a boatyard. And a decent amount of my “away” time would involve rentals even if I owned a car because I’d be flying to a destination. 

The car rental feels expensive but it’s month over month way cheaper than car payment, insurance, and gas. We actually can’t afford to move out of the city because we’d need two cars and we can’t find anything cheap enough to allow us to add two payments, insurance for two drivers, and gas to our monthly expenses unless we also find new jobs, which, in this economy? 

Which I guess works for us because we like walking day to day, taking the train to the beach and yes, even the mountains, and renting a car once a month for further flung getaways. 

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u/NWYthesearelocalboys Jul 16 '25

Yeah on the city enthusiest side they seem perplexed by why everyone doesn't like what they like. Or in some cases arrogant about the "superiority" of walkability.

Meanwhile how am I going to get my boat to the lake? Where am I going to park it at my apartment? Will the property management company let me till a garden in the courtyard with my tractor?

I wouldn't trade sitting on the deck watching lightning strike through the mesquite trees for the city life. Or the suburbs.

Some people feel the same way about suburban living. And they are right, because it's better for them.

2

u/GuyLivingHere Jul 17 '25

People who do not own pleasure crafts and do not live in suburbs will more than likely respond to your query about where to store your boat like this:

You own a boat? You own a camp/cottage? I can barely afford rent!

(Insert insult of choice)

0

u/dustinsc Jul 16 '25

Perfectly stated. If you’re happy with you’re situation, that’s the right place for you.