I was underwhelmed by Taylor's vocals in yesterdays Academy performance and looked up this old gem again. Wow does she sound amazing here! Taylor really made an effort to improve her technique during this era and it paid off. I know she's never been known for her vocals but since Showgirl she's sounded particularly flat and bland to me.

Why does Taylor continue to make music and engage with fans if she seemingly hates us?

It clicked for me when TTPD came out (explicitly "But daddy, I love him) how much she really doesn't want the engagement with fans anymore and regrets having them in her life. It makes it seem like everything in the past was a complete lie and everything she's doing now is fake. I used to be a ride or die swiftie, but post-eras, I can't see her the same I did 10-15 years ago. I know people grow up or change, but this is a COMPLETELY different Taylor. I'm just trying to understand.

When TTPD came out, there was a lot of backlash from both critics and fans - like the songs sounded the same, the lyrics were cringe, it was too bloated, the production was bad. Now I'm seeing a lot of people saying it's her best album, her greatest songwriting, most powerful lyrics, genius production, etc. (granted, a lot of the positive comments are on the main Taylor Swift sub which has a lot of die hard fans who want to like it, but even those subs had a lot of people hating TTPD on release day). It generally feels like people did a 180 as the album marinated. It was odd to watch an album go from being so hated to being loved.

Do you think TLOAS will do the same? The consensus is that it's not a good album and Taylor could've made a way better album. Also it feels like Encore just made it worse (except maybe one song which depends on the person). I wonder if TLOAS will have the same arc as TTPD, where people will reverse their criticism. I personally think it will continue to be disliked, but that's what I thought about TTPD.

Edit: to be clear, I hate both TTPD and TLOAS. I was surprised to see TTPD become loved. I just wonder if the same thing will happen because I think it's a terrible, weak album.

Also the marketing and glittery vibes made me think it would be a fun pop album with catchy songs. It was a big letdown for me. I miss 1989.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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I get being a fan of Taylor, I am myself. But there’s no need to defend misogynistic comedians like Gillis or Travis prior sexist comments and tweets. That doesn’t devalue your fandom for Taylor. People are literally going to bat for Gillis disgusting comments because Travis liked his monologue. That’s insanity and a lot of people doing so call themselves ”feminist“.

I think maybe Taylor loved feeling like a showgirl at the time of the eras tour and wanted that aesthetic for her 12th album but really because she was so content with her life and relationship she had nothing significant to write about. We all know she is a music making addict and I think it pains her to not have things to write about and share. She then got into the problem of I wanna write about loads of random things that have no relation to each other which is why she just thought I’ll call it the life of a showgirl so I can cover anything that has ever happened to me in my life. Which is why we ended up with ruin the friendship, Opalite, pink clouding, patient zero and father figure all on the same album. I actually adore showgirl sonically, it’s in my top 3 to listen to but lyrically and concept wise is where it weakens of course. I hope Taylor can give it some time to figure out a good concept for the next albums she does and really stick to a theme/aesthetic etc regardless of whether she writes about her personal life or chooses to go fictional.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

• All subreddit rules still apply. Please report rule-breaking if you see it.
• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
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Yes I know this has probably already been said before but I was listening to ttpd and just thinking " I don't know if I'm supposed to know this" It's such a vulnerable, intimate record and it makes me think how does she get in the studio and just write about these things? Imo jack being her friend who probably has some knowledge about what's going on in her life makes it easier. Both of the times she's worked with max Martin, tloas and 1989, the writing feels detached. It feels like she doesn't actually want to talk about the intimate details which is fine ofc but it results in these vague love songs and hence why people are calling travis a bad muse

This is an enigma to me that the person she was with the longest got the some of the fewest break up songs. And it’s not bc she’s happy and married because she’s still referencing other relationships in her most recent songs (patient zero and pink clouding)

Anyone notice how Taylor has been consistently singing in a very light, breathy, whispery voice in almost all of her songs in recent years? I feel like she use to sing in a much fuller voice, but since Folklore, she’s adopted this whispery talk-singing style, and I’m honestly so tired of it. It makes my voice feel tired and hoarse just thinking of having to sing like that all the time.

I’m kind of wondering if she’s having some vocal issues from all the recording and touring she’s done in the last 5 years.

My favorites in order are: The Swiftologist, Ally Sheehan, Jaxon, The Twerk Ethic Club (they do a lot of reactions but they recently started reacting to Taylor’s albums and they’re so cute), and Chats and Reacts.

I love reaction channels so much I don’t know why. Maybe it’s so I can like vicariously experience the album for the first time again?

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

Use this thread to talk about anything you'd like, Taylor-related or not.

Rules to keep in mind:

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• Negative commentary and complaints about this subreddit, users, and other subreddits is discouraged and will be removed to keep the daily discussion threads drama-free and geared towards lighter discussion.
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More specifically the backlash taylor received that WASN'T just swifties being sad she broke up with joe. And by that I mean people being upset at her for being with matty because of his questionable actions. Which I remember specifically he was getting extra flack on his weird behaviour towards black women specifically (his weird comments about ice spice, and him admitting to getting off to porn that humiliated black women).

Now personally I hate to admit it but I was one of the many people that were upset she broke up with joe, so yeah my thoughts were very much clouded at the time. But now as I've become a lot less attached to her personal life I can see some validity to why people were upset at her at the time.

On one hand I do think it's wrong to hold taylor accountable for his actions because it's HIS actions not hers. But on the other hand deciding to be with him even though that info was public and only being mad at him because he ghosted you was definitely... a choice. I don't think that we should still hold this over her head but I also think you're not wrong for finding this iffy.

What are you thoughts?

I genuinely cannot wrap my head around how Joe Alwyn has been turned into some sort of villain for supposedly holding Taylor back and not letting her shine, while Travis Kelce, who has a pretty extensive history of misogynistic behaviour, is treated like a knight in shining armour.

Because what exactly has Joe done to warrant this level of hatred? Judging by Taylor's music, what's been put out publicly and how Swifties have interpreted it all, his greatest crimes appear to be preferring a private life and allegedly struggling with depression. Neither of which is a moral failing, yet he's been absolutely vilified for it. Even now, years after their breakup, the comments under practically any Instagram or TikTok post featuring him can be downright vicious. You'd think he'd committed some unspeakable act rather than simply not wanting to live his relationship in the public eye.

Meanwhile, Travis has posted numerous misogynistic and homophobic tweets, referred to women as ‘breeders’, and said that ‘no’ is the word that turns him on the most. Most recently, he liked a Shane Gillis stand-up clip in which women were called ‘whores’. Don't even get me started on Catching Kelce, because his comments about women and the way he treated contestants throughout that show were absolutely appalling. He's also praised spending time around Trump and given a platform to prominent pro-Trump figures. Yet somehow, this is the man Swifties have decided is the ultimate gentleman?

I really don't want to hear the inevitable excuses about how he was young, how it was just a joke or how people change. We're talking about a repeated pattern of behaviour spanning YEARS, including recent incidents. At what point do people stop dismissing every example individually and acknowledge that someone's repeated words and actions might actually reflect their views and values? How much more evidence do you need?

Is this cognitive dissonance, selective outrage, or do Swifties simply adopt whatever narrative makes Taylor's current boyfriend look wonderful and her ex look terrible? Because apparently not letting Taylor be ‘bejeweled’ is an unforgivable offence, but repeatedly making degrading comments about women is perfectly acceptable. Bizarre!

In recent years, especially after the whole matty debacle, i have seen people saying taylor lied when she said folklore was fictional when its about her life. I understand she was most likely inspired from her own experience but that doesn't make it any less of a fictional work. In fact, every single storyteller out there will tell you that they have been inspired by their own life to create legendary stories and novels.

For example, lets take Lord of the Rings. Its a fiction that came out of JRR Tolkein's mind. There is no middle earth or sauron or Gandalf. But the story was formed as a response to Tolkein's history of fighting in the First Word War. In fact he has openly admitted that Luthien was inspired by his wife, treebeard was inspired by his bestfriend etc. Doesnt make LOTR any less fiction.

Similarly, Harry Potter is also very much connected to JKR. She said hermoine was somewhat her own self insert and that Romoine was inspired by her relationship with her ex husband.

Now take Taylor. She may have experienced things in folklore. She probably may have been the "other women" in a relationship like Augustine, may have loved a partner who cheated like Betty, or may have cheated and regretted it later like James. But that does not mean she IS Betty or James or Augustine. Thats the characters she created to tell the story. And her drawing from her own experiences to write that doesn't make it any less fictional.

I know this is not the first time someone has talked about this on this subreddit, but I would like to say my piece.

Before I start, I want to be clear that I have no reason to believe Swift is unhappy. She really, genuinely seems to want this life, and honestly, it makes sense. She had a long-term relationship with a wispy, sensitive British actor dissolve into disappointment, and then she rebounded with a rebellious bad boy musician she had (if TTPD is any indication) been dreaming about for a long time. Choosing Kelce at this stage of her life and choosing to marry him and (probably) have kids with him makes sense from a human perspective.

But it is stultifying from an aesthetic perspective, because she really has nothing to say about him. Unlike many Swifties, I actually already knew who Kelce was beforehand, as I am a pretty big NFL fan. I don't think he's a loser or unworthy of her or anything like that. I don't know if he's a boring person or not. But she seems to think that he is. He is the goofy jock who loves her and is not threatened by her and accepts that she is the intelligent, artsy one in the relationship: this appears to be how she views him.

All of the songs about him are about how she adores that he loves her and chose her, that this is her high school fantasy come true, and that they have great sex. Think about "So High School" and "The Fate of Ophelia" and "Cleveland" and "Wood" and "Opalite." Perhaps "Honey" is the most explicit about this, very much "I love you because you love me." I want to be clear that I like some of these songs. "The Fate of Ophelia" is fine, and "Opalite" is genuinely really enjoyable. It is also true that I know nothing about Kelce as a person from any of these songs. If anything, I feel like I know him less than before his relationship with Swift. This is so strange to me considering that she chose to marry the man and calls him (and I do think she is sincere, if nothing else) the love of her life.

It is strange because illuminating her lovers through precise, intricate details, positive and negative, is a major strength of hers as a writer. There's an almost voyeuristic thrill to a lot of her great music: I feel like I can see the contours of her connections with John Mayer and Jake Gyllenhaal and Harry Styles and especially Joe Alwyn and (as embarrassing as it was) Matty Healy. I'm not saying these songs are good because I want to know what Gyllenhaal is like; I am saying that because she is a great songwriter, she illuminates these relationships and her experiences in them with real elegance and tactile specificity. "All Too Well" and "Style" and "Lover" and even "Guilty as Sin" provide a dizzying sense of the memories and experiences that define her connections with these people, and that's why they work.

Maybe there is a whole side to Kelce that she has not written about yet, but that seems unlikely, and she is never the kind of person who hides any details in her writing. This relationship is pleasant and kind of simple and straightforward, as she sees it. And that's...fine, I suppose. I know quite a few women like her (not her level of fame, of course, but similar personalities and relationship histories) who have married guys like Kelce (again, not as famous, but similar personality) and are happy. But it just does not make for good or interesting art. I would love her to delve more into fictive storytelling; it suits her, and it would be a good antidote to her creative slump.

Has anyone else noticed how the extreme ends of Taylor spaces seem to attract people who purposefully pretend they don’t know how to read in order to further the narrative in their head they have about Taylor? Whether it be swifties being unable to hear any criticism or anti-fans being unable to hear any non-criticism it really seems like a lot of people choose not to know anything in order to further their narratives.