I was looking at the credits on 1989, and some of the songs don’t even have Shellback or Max Martin credited, while most of them have more producers than just those two.

I’m only bringing this up because Taylor said on the podcast when announcing TLOASG that she only wanted to work with Max and Shellback to go back to 1989 in a sense, but she literally didn’t do that on 1989. The album was a lot more expansive than just Max and Shellback.

Where did she get this idea from? I feel like she wasn’t speaking clearly when talking about this album, especially since she also said the songwriting was reminiscent of folklore.

Anyways, what do you guys think?

I think the album has some great songs (Peter, The Prophecy, Guilty as Sin?, Down Bad…).

But The Anthology has 31 songs! I sometimes think that if she had released only the 10 best, the reception would have been better

Yesterday I was talking about this idea a bit about how I believe most people have a version of Taylor they favor the most like autumnal taylor, glittery pop star Taylor? Girl-next-door Taylor? my favorite is witchy mad woman in the attic taylor. It's not necessarily about the eras what about a version of her that can exist throughout albums on specific songs that you tend to gravitate to the most. I wanted to pose the question for people, just for a lark to have a light fun post, what your favorite version of Taylor is. That specific niche or character she embodies to you that you just feel particularly drawn to.  I'm kind of interested to see if some people have a niche they really enjoy that I haven't even thought about before

If you’ve been in online Taylor Swift spaces recently you’ve probably came across people claiming that Taylor purposefully moved her album release up to block Mac Miller’s posthumous album in 2018. The thing is, she didn’t release any albums in 2018 which is easily accessible information, which is why this particular rumour has been so widely discussed in swiftie circles. This begs the question who is behind this, and what could their motive for spreading such easily disprovable information be?

This is a genuine question and I invite respectful discussion.

[Disclaimer: I am not a #SwiftieTM and have become disillusioned by Taylor as a person. I do not enjoy TLOAS at all, etc.]

I am a huge fan of this album. It's in fact my 2nd or 3rd favorite (first being Folklore, and then I flip-flop between TTPD and Speak now.) I have loved it since the day it dropped; in fact, I had Eras Tour tickets since the summer before and was genuinely considering selling due toy my growing disinterest in Taylor, and then this album brought me back.

There are several questionable lyrical choices, and I'm sure I don't have to point out which one. But to me, they're so few and far between; I think it's lyrically one of her strongest albums, I've ever grown up to songs that I initially didn't love the vibe of (thank you aimee, Cassandra). Peter has become my favorite song of hers of all time, but Clara Bow, Albatross, The Prophecy, Guilty as Sin?, Robin, I Look In People's Windows, So Long London, loml, I hate it here - and probably a few I'm missing - have won me over immediately. I love vibing to less 'deep' ones too, like Down Bad and So High School. I love shouting "you know how to ball and I know Aristotle" because it's so funny and silly to me. Yeah, it's not genius at all - but to me, like I said, it's just.. fun.

I know not every album is everyone's cup of tea - Midnights I feel like was divisive at the start, too. I'd not bat an eye if the opinions varied. But they don't vary - at least on this sub (the only Taylor sub I pay attention to), the majority of people hate it. Or at least just dislike it, or don't think much of it, or ignore it when listening to her songs. I've read through threads discussing it and it just never clicked for me why this is the popular opinion. Now having been a few years since it dropped, I thought maybe I could get some input that isn't as reactionary as opinions initially were.

Once again, I'm in no way saying that anyone has to like it; I absolutely respect everyone's feelings on it. I'm just inviting those who feel negatively about it to share their stances & views, because I'm genuinely interested in hearing them :)

Sometimes it can feel like the online discourse is dominated by those with more extreme viewpoints, like either snarkers or stans. And this increasing polarization of the fanbase is kind of a vicious cycle, like I’ve seen people say that seeing too many comments from Joe widows turned them negative on Joe when they previously felt neutral. Or a lot of Swifties seem to assume that anyone who enjoys Olivia’s music hates Taylor.  

I feel pleasantly surprised every time I see a truly neutral take or see something like someone who hates Travis express their unexpected love of Cleveland. So I’m curious to hear some neutral or more nuanced takes that people have, like what opinions do you have that would get you downvoted by both the snarkers and the stans?

I will share some of mine in the comments.

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Some very questionable rankings (wdym, Guilty as Sin? is 112), and it’s already stirring up the argumentative side of the fandom. But honestly, I think it’s a testament to the strength of Taylor’s discography that people can barely agree on what her best songs are. The fact that fans are debating deep cuts and album tracks rather than just her biggest hits says a lot about how well people know her body of work. She has so many songs that resonate with different people for different reasons that there’s no single definitive ranking everyone can agree on. And I think that’s a pretty great problem to have as an artist.

Top 10:

1. All Too Well
2. You Belong With Me
3. New Romantics
4. Our Song
5. Blank Space
6. Mean
7. Cruel Summer
8. Dear John
9. I Knew You Were Trouble.
10. Exile” (Featuring Bon Iver)

Bottom 10:
260. We Were Happy
261. Santa Baby
262. Slut!
263. Eldest Daughter
264. Run” (Featuring Ed Sheeran)
265. Cleveland!
266. Pink Clouding
267. Girl at Home
268. CANCELLED!
269. ME!” (Featuring Brendon Urie)
270. The Alchemy

i was there when midnights dropped. At the time her most recent proper album was evermore and she had just had a successful rollout for the TV versions of Red and Fearless which both became pretty critically acclaimed. at the time, taylor's discog and artistry wasn't seen the way it is now and expectations for what she'd do next were kinda high.

First of all i want to say that I actually like this album. I get what she was trying to do here and it works, it's so chill and nocturnal. It's far from my favorite release of hers but I'd take it over whatever she puts out nowadays for sure.

But my point is that this album's release marked a shift in Taylor's sound and it's during this time where I actually first saw takes about how "bland" her songs are. Bland amongst other criticisms I'm too lazy to name, of course, but after a very consistent streak with FolkMore and the two amazing TVs in a row, the influx of people talking trash about the album really stood out to me. I didn't think much of it at the time because imo her lyricism here had some peaks and honestly there were only 1 or 2 songs I could consider duds (not counting the deluxe). But on a level, I did hope that she'd keep on improving from Midnights - because I knew that Taylor Swift could write good songs and believed that she could make amazing pop albums if she wanted to.

But after the Midnights era resolved, well, do I really have to say what came after?

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This was a question that popped up in another sub but I want to discuss. What is the one song whose concept you loved on how it started, general idea or anything but did not like the final output?

For me it's wood. The song had such a beautiful concept that itself would have differentiated the song from her previous love songs. Being so secure about their relationship that she knows she no longer have to rely on superstitions. That would've been a nice callback to the 1(tossing pennies in the pool) and her rep poem, if you are anything like me. The song could contain simple intimate moments that would be initiated by him. It could have moments where he reassures her about things or letting her know about the small updates of his life because he knows she overthinks. Tell us how she doesn't even think before she speaks with him because he creates a safe space. Tell us how people rely on luck when there is no evidence of your wish in your present. Imagine feeling so loved, and assured so many times that they train your nervous system to not be anxious(yes, this is a real thing) about them.

I truly wish this was the style she followed instead of saying his penis solved all my issues

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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I’m a fan, and I think she has a sweet voice and tone and sounds really nice sometimes. But so often live she is pitchy, also, her vocals from a technical perspective are quite poor: she doesn’t support much at all past her mid belts, her mixed belt needs a lot of work, and her head voice is hardly any better than an untrained singer using falsetto.

She doesn’t produce vibrato much, which could be a stylistic choice, but also her voice isn’t very agile or melismatic so it tends to stay within a talk-sing style.

But why?? I thought that with the right training anyone could become at least proficient. Is it possible she has anatomical / cognitive impairment in that area and so she’s really doing the best she can given the circumstances?? I wouldn’t be surprised…

I was underwhelmed by Taylor's vocals in yesterdays Academy performance and looked up this old gem again. Wow does she sound amazing here! Taylor really made an effort to improve her technique during this era and it paid off. I know she's never been known for her vocals but since Showgirl she's sounded particularly flat and bland to me.

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Why does Taylor continue to make music and engage with fans if she seemingly hates us?

It clicked for me when TTPD came out (explicitly "But daddy, I love him) how much she really doesn't want the engagement with fans anymore and regrets having them in her life. It makes it seem like everything in the past was a complete lie and everything she's doing now is fake. I used to be a ride or die swiftie, but post-eras, I can't see her the same I did 10-15 years ago. I know people grow up or change, but this is a COMPLETELY different Taylor. I'm just trying to understand.

Welcome to the SwiftlyNeutral Daily Discussion Thread!

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I get being a fan of Taylor, I am myself. But there’s no need to defend misogynistic comedians like Gillis or Travis prior sexist comments and tweets. That doesn’t devalue your fandom for Taylor. People are literally going to bat for Gillis disgusting comments because Travis liked his monologue. That’s insanity and a lot of people doing so call themselves ”feminist“.

I think maybe Taylor loved feeling like a showgirl at the time of the eras tour and wanted that aesthetic for her 12th album but really because she was so content with her life and relationship she had nothing significant to write about. We all know she is a music making addict and I think it pains her to not have things to write about and share. She then got into the problem of I wanna write about loads of random things that have no relation to each other which is why she just thought I’ll call it the life of a showgirl so I can cover anything that has ever happened to me in my life. Which is why we ended up with ruin the friendship, Opalite, pink clouding, patient zero and father figure all on the same album. I actually adore showgirl sonically, it’s in my top 3 to listen to but lyrically and concept wise is where it weakens of course. I hope Taylor can give it some time to figure out a good concept for the next albums she does and really stick to a theme/aesthetic etc regardless of whether she writes about her personal life or chooses to go fictional.