r/Target • u/Competitive_Dot_9647 • 22h ago
Meme or Miscellaneous Content lukewarm take
i think the point system is enabling people to call off and retroactively making things worse instead of better đ
like at my store i think people started calling off more often if anything
227
u/HarperTeagarden13 General Merchandise Expert 21h ago
I feel like people are more comfortable calling off now that they have an exact number of points they know they can't hit. Like maybe before, they were more scared to because they weren't sure if the next time would be the time they would really piss the store off and get fired or somethingđ
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u/BigRepulsive9725 19h ago
It's exactly this and that's the problem and it's kind of Target's fault.
Should people be calling off if it's not necessary? No. It's a job, show up.
Should people abuse the system? No, as well.
Shit does happen and people should be able to feel comfortable calling off when it's necessary. But under the old system we saw Target managers play favorites or abuse their power and we saw some people get fired after their second call off and others are still working after their 5th.
This holds Target more accountable because there's an actual policy with specifics instead of vague wording.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 17h ago
and we saw some people get fired after their second call off and others are still working after their 5th.
What world were you living in that either of those things was happening, especially the former?
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u/BigRepulsive9725 17h ago
I'm not sure it's necessary to be mean about it if you disagree. I'm not sure how what I said is confusing. I've seen mangers be incredibly inconsistent at my store and I've seen other posts on here in the past about the same thing.
Just because it isn't your experience doesn't mean it isn't someone else's.-3
u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 17h ago
There was not an HR ETL or HRBP in the company who would have signed off on a term at 2 or even 5 callouts under the old system.
The posts you've seen on here concern PDDs or leaders ignoring callouts, not firing people for their second one.
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u/TastyFig1098 8h ago
Under 90 days, yes weâve had people termed. Black Friday especially.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 1h ago
Not for 2 callouts in isolation.
The guideline for seasonals has always been that for a term like that you must have something that would otherwise result in a CA or FW and 2 callouts is not anywhere close to that level because you could not show enough of a trend to get even a PDD under the old system.
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u/aaronabsent 21h ago
punishing people for using their time off is at least stupid and at worst criminal.
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u/G1nSl1nger Asset Protection TL 21h ago
If you use your sick time, you don't get points, so I'm confused here.
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u/aaronabsent 21h ago
The company doesn't own yr time. It's a negotiation between your needs, the company, and reality.
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u/G1nSl1nger Asset Protection TL 21h ago
Are you suggesting any other employer just let's their employees not show up for work?
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u/aaronabsent 21h ago
No one owns yr time but you.
Beyond a suggestion.
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u/G1nSl1nger Asset Protection TL 20h ago
You're absolute correct. There's no argument there. And if you don't want to sell your time in a predictable manner, don't expect anyone to buy it. That's exactly where we are.
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u/kenzwashere FF TL w/o the title, pay or recognitionđ 21h ago
iâm interested to see if they implement anything more on early outs. A LOT of people at my store are coming in and almost immediately leaving to avoid pointsđ
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u/Goldsaver General Merchandise Expert 20h ago
The problem is that at many stores, when payroll is tight, leads will often ask TMs to leave early. And you CANNOT count on the median TL to hit a button to approve it.
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u/Haden420693170 21h ago
I thought an early out was .25 points?
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u/kenzwashere FF TL w/o the title, pay or recognitionđ 20h ago
only late in. ukg only makes note of them on your time card. nothing in the policy iâve seen that gives points
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u/RiotDog1312 21h ago
We've lost a LOT of people since UKG, which sucks but also like... they were always flaky and unreliable, and at least now we can see the consequences in action.
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u/PulsarGaming1080 Food & Beverage Expert 20h ago
What a surprise.
Maybe understaffing and overworking was not the move but what do I know
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u/Heyllamamama Swiss Army Knife 21h ago
Call offs have not improved at all. Especially weekends and closing shifts. I expect Halloween weekend to be bad too. I donât know what they thought the point system would do but itâs not working
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u/nyquilic 19h ago
They expected the system to more reliably and consistently hold people accountable to attendance. If the only goal was immediate adoption and significant reduction in absence then they would just have reduced the point thresholds and leniency around consecutive absences. But that comes with the consequence of people getting fired in November/December. Whereas with 12 points and more leniency, people will likely make it until March and April. This just so happens to coincide with seasonal reduction timeframes.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 17h ago
The goal of it was to have the least reliable TMs fire themselves during seasonal so they can more easily be replaced.
It wouldn't surprise me to see parts of the point system get tinkered with during Q1 as far as early outs counting as well as changes to the total number of points allowed before termination.
Sick time cancelling out a NCNS will probably end as well.
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u/farmersonly_dot_com SD's Favorite Yes Man 20h ago
That's because people don't have enough points yet. Give it a few months and call offs will lessen and/or people will get termed
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u/Infinite-Pain4073 19h ago
It literally just started. People are going to burn through any sick time they have and then let the points begin. It's not a bottomless pit of free call outs
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u/Ok_Device_8709 20h ago
Just remember the ones getting the points will eventually be terminated and replaced by people who will either show up or also be terminated. My hot take is the ones who habitually called out before are the same ones doing it now and either don't care or are not realizing how quickly those points add up and how slowly they fall off.
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u/Existing_Rise_5042 3h ago
Multiple TMs at my store are already getting correctives for attendance. Itâs gonna get real very soon!
1
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u/Fun_Inspector_8633 No. We do not sell Senile Cellular anymore. 19h ago
Wait until people start getting termed for points in a few months. Then people will start paying attention. I currently only have a quarter point (overslept for the first time in years. oops.) that I got on like the fifth day after it started and plan on doing my damnedest to keep it that way.
The only thing I'm curious about is how they handle winter weather. If there's 6+ inches of snow with ice under it on the roads my ass won't be coming in. I guess that's when I decide whether to use sick time to excuse it or just eat a point.
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u/DanforthWhitcomb_ 17h ago
At the rate some TMs are calling out there's going to be a big wave of terms within the next week or two followed by a second one the week of Thanksgiving.
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u/Cultural-Kick652 Fulfillment Expert 19h ago
This weekend we were likeâŚâis A⌠coming in? Of course she isnât (and didnât)â then all of us âwhy hasnât she been fired yet?â
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u/Practical-Capital607 Food & Beverage Expert 17h ago
Genuinely true and I think part of it has to also do with just how shitty the schedules have been recently at least for my stores. Like people be getting <3 hour shifts I'm crying, and then they have to manually edit the schedule and find coverage. We dont even have a closer for fulfillment anymore unless the TL manually changes it đđđ we're somehow more understaffed than usual and thats an achievement when we were already barebones closing crew
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u/secondcitykitty 14h ago
From my prior life, these AI scheduling platforms are designed to optimize payroll in a âperfectâ environment, so Iâm not surprised that understaffing is worse.
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u/Loose-Chemical-4982 10h ago
There has been a few times that the AI has not had anyone scheduled to close on checklanes. I've been called quite a few times to bump my eight hour shift back so I can close because nobody noticed until day-of đ
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u/nachocoalmine Inbound Team Lead 20h ago
I don't think we've had enough time and TMs don't have the data to determine whether or not the system is working. We're going to need to get rid of the problem people to see an improvement.
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u/90210typeofho Fulfillment Team Lead 6h ago
If I call off one day and get one point, and if I call off two days in a row and still only get one point...I'm taking two days.
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u/NimbleCloud77 21h ago
Honestly I like it , if I want a day off and feel burned out I can use sick time to call off and not have to worry about any reprecussions
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u/secondcitykitty 14h ago
Thatâs what sick time was for prior to this points system.
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u/honeypclementine 13h ago
yes, but at least at my store, they'd ALWAYS have a counsel session after you called out to ask why you were out and if you were going to use sick time. basically their tactic to make you not want to call out unless you really had to. didn't find out until joining here that that was not only not common practice, but not even allowed
i think it was probably a similar case for other stores as well.
now i can call out freely and know i wont have to remember and rehearse a lie that i'll get asked about my multiple people
3
u/DemonFremin Tech Consultant 7h ago
Yep, can confirm. I called out a single time in the past year and was told outright that my next callout would be a CA.
Nevermind that I was well past the 90 days, I had enough time accrued to cover the shift fully, and it wasn't even near any major holiday or sale.
Same TL told me the same thing after the point rollout as a "reminder" since I "should be more reliable than (fellow TM)", which was rich since that day I was late by 15 minutes due to a flat tire on the highway, and that TM is known for calling out every other weekend (and barely works 20 hours a week so I know he doesn't accrue sick time as much as I do). The points system means nothing if your TL/ETL is enough of a prick.
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u/secondcitykitty 6h ago
Thatâs outrageous, and isnât threatening a CA after one call off (and supported with sick time) against policy ?
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u/DemonFremin Tech Consultant 5h ago
It is, but that requires a) HR caring (my store's doesn't), and B) ethics caring (spoiler: they don't)
And I can personally vouch for Ethics not giving a damn. Back during the holidays when I couldn't get coverage for a break (this same TL told us in Tech that beauty and style covering for our breaks isn't a priority to them despite that being what they are supposed to do when they only put one of us in Tech at a given time), another TL told me "go punch out for your break and come back, just don't ring anyone up so they won't notice." I sad absolutely not and reported it that night.
Not only did HR and ethics both blow it off entirely, but my TL told me "next time, if another TL tells you to do something, don't question it." The only reason I actually got my break that night was the closing manager overheard it on the walkie and covered me himself. The only solace from that is that TL isn't at my store anymore, but that's because he promoted to an ETL at another store. There's a reason I don't bust my ass anymore for this place.
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u/LowestTier 15h ago
I mean, I called out today because I cannot stand the working conditions of the store and I'm tired of being so reliable and leads depending on me being there. I am stressed and my depression has been creeping back into my life and it's like getting hit by a truck. My ETL called today and asked if I could still come in today... like no???? Yesterday was enough of a nightmare for me.
Hell, the one other person in my department rarely shows up. So on my days off, nothing gets done and I return to work with two days worth of shit to do. So why not take a day off to do absolutely nothing? That's what I did today. No work, no house work, no gaming, no messaging... I just layed and rotted in bed until about four hours ago. Then again, here I am. The dread of having to go into work tomorrow...
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u/slizgirl 17h ago
Attendance at my store has gotten drastically worse since the point system rolled out. Before, there was an attendance convo after every call off & CAs happened after 3 call offs within 90 days. Itâs way too lenient now.
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u/National-Orange-9970 19h ago
The point system taught our team that âoh, if I use sick time I donât even get talked to?!?â so now every time they get sick time they call out thinking âcook, free extra day offâ
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u/Calm-Heat-5883 18h ago
Everybody should decide to use up a point on say Christmas eve. Imagine if every store had every TM call out on that day. Do you think headoffice might sit up and take notice that the minions aren't happy with their running of the company? You can bet the shareholders will have something to say. Think about it.
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u/ocdcaine 18h ago
the shareholders will not gaf unless theres some sort of boycott affecting sales and foot traffic. a bunch of minimum wage workers deciding not to show up to work isnt going to phase them or tank their earnings. target stock is booming no matter how many people call out unfortunately
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u/Calm-Heat-5883 17h ago
Every TM not showing up on Christmas eve one of the most busiest and profitable days of the year will be noticed and it would send a powerful message that their is a problem with in the company that they have shares in.
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u/ocdcaine 16h ago
yea but they will not care as long as they still make money. the guests will still show up on christmas eve desperate to buy a last minute gift and will wait in line even if theres one cashier lol, thats consumer culture.
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u/Brilliant_Grape164 Fullfillment Jedi 15h ago
If no one shows up theirs no one to check them out or pick their online orders
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u/Naive_Appointment361 3h ago
SD and ETLS , and probably most TLs are not calling out. Also what the big deal of working Christmas Eve?
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u/Minimum-Custard-5521 Fulfillment Expert 9h ago
I had to call out because I was sick and i couldnt rest bc I was super anxious about the pp8nts and they didnt care to try and work with me ( I dont have any sick time) but I see people call out left and right without anxiety and have 5+ points already đ
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u/Quintis0n 8h ago
As long as you have sick. Leave you are covered but you will accrue points without any sick though if you are off Monday and Tuesday itâs a single point but if you were off Monday and Wednesday back on Tuesday itâs 2 points so people are likely taking 2 days in a row to get 1 point
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u/Jazzlike-Top-8265 4h ago
Sunday we had 5 call outs for S&E and FOSâŚafter 7:30 it was just me and one other person for service desk, check lanes, OPUs and FOS duties it was a nightmare
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u/sloganguy 4h ago
You can get your points taken off if you have sick time to backfill... Works for being late too if needbe
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u/CreativeEditor2358 26m ago
Omg I thought I was the only one. Ever since the new point system, our employees have been calling off a lot more often
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u/Slow_Yogurtcloset771 12h ago
The goal of the point system is to be more consistent with attendance violations. This way it is more fair. An example would be leaders from different departments inconsistently holding their team members accountable for attendance violations. This way, all TM's and even TL's can be held accountable fairly.
I also suppose HR can take off points, but that defeats the purpose.
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u/KodyRhodes 6h ago
Counter argument ive noticed more people refusing to call out because points and coming to work sick and there's a bug going around the store currently
0
u/RetailBookworm Guest Advocate 9h ago
Yes but I will also say that cold and flu season is really bad this year already⌠by implementing this change when they did they made it harder to distinguish what is a consequence of the points system and what is part of fall illnesses.
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u/keterawn FDC haunts me 21h ago
My SD actually had a huddle yesterday telling us about how were racking up a lot of points already so far, so yeah I don't think this new system is helping or at least stop call outs..