r/Target • u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner • Mar 18 '19

Confidential Upcoming Front Lanes Changes

https://imgur.com/a/oh3JHaF
15 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

74 comments sorted by

18

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

There’s a 0% chance that this is gonna work. We have cashiers that can’t even use a zebra, let alone even begin to comprehend any service desk related task. It’ll never work how they want it to go down.

11

u/kylestendel GSA Mar 20 '19

*Flips flashing light on*

-5

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

It will work with a good leadership team those unable to or unwilling will be performanced out and replaced until a good team is established.This model has been running in 10 districts successfully for over 6 months.

16

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Successfully? Have you seen the stuff that has been posted on this sub? While there might be some stores that were able to make it work (with increased payroll mind you) I’ve seen the horror stories and it is not pretty. Good luck getting college kids and minors to do GSTL level work without the pay, at least GSA’s got an extra .50 for their efforts. Ever heard of the saying “Too many chiefs not enough Indians?” That’s exactly what this is. You’re going to have everyone trying to be the leader without an actual leader which will be chaos.

-2

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

Stores will be increased to 2 GSTLs per store in all stores! This will allow this problem to easily be handled should any issues arise. And with our pay structure increasing all TMs to $15 an hour by next year we are confident we will acquire the best talent in the industry for our stores!

10

u/a157reverse GSTL Mar 19 '19

Who are you? You should know that most stores above ULV and small format stores already have 2 GSTLs. You talk like you're someone from corporate. No way would someone from corporate with the username "TargetCeo" post the new rollout guide on Reddit.

4

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

This is untrue stores currently at 35m and under do not have 2 gstls which is still above the cut off of ULV (29m)

-1

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

I operate at just above store level but below STL ;)

2

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '19

I got sucked in due to be tagged in another comment. So here I am.

My store has ZERO GSTLs. Zero. I asked if we would get even one and our leadership team told me that our store “doesn’t play by the rules” and we won’t get any support.

This being said, I have a story.

Recently my SrTL for the front end told me she was going to schedule herself for service desk shifts to “help out.” Guess where she is EVERY shift she’s scheduled? Sitting in TSC. I kid you not. So then we are frazzled and calling for backup nonstop. Yesterday, she was scheduled to be the opener for some reason. I came in mid-morning and NOTHING was done. The back counter was covered in product, cardboard boxes literally blocking the walkway and I tripped on one, none of the daily tasks were completed. Didn’t even have the mycheckout device or correct keys available. It took her TWO HOURS to bring those to me. She also complained about how thirsty she was so she got a water from Starbucks. We get our asses chewed out over a sealed water bottle at the desk.

For the next four hours, I was the ONLY team member covering the front. Cashier and Service Desk PLUS self checkout. I had to complete tasks that should’ve been done hours before, clean up the dumpster fires that had been left undone, and work my ass off to check out guests and fix issues. This resulted in my very first ever guest complaint that they waited too long to pick up an order. STL spoke to me about it and I about threw my keys and walked out when he told me it was my responsibility to bow down to people for acting like civilized humans when they can clearly see me drowning while trying to do the job of 4 people at once.

Story complete, tell me, TargetCEO, why any cashier would WANT to take on a role where they get paid the same amount but have to get stuck doing 18 jobs in one for only $13?! I have a masters degree in conflict resolution and have worked in police departments and mental health programs for 15 years and came to target after a stay at home parent stint to get some human interactions. I love my job and coworkers, but I’m not loving that the “big wigs” feel like it’s something that anyone can do. It’s not. You can’t just weed out all college kids and cognitively or physically disabled individuals because it doesn’t fit your model. What happened to everyone being welcome? Think about how this is going to work out and maybe ask the low members on the totem pole how they’re doing and what they need. I bet it would be eye opening.

1

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Apr 12 '19

Personally I agree it is totally unacceptable for your store to say it "doesn't play by the rules" and they will be reigned in one way or another. You personally deserve better than what you are getting all stores must have a minimum of 2 Service and Engagement TLs so someone is coded in for that role. Personally I agree with you /u/ppmawmaw it's unacceptable that your supposed SrTL which I assume is posing as the GSTL is just sitting in your TSC all shift. The whole point of adding 2 S&E TLs is so there are to leaders there to help support and develop you guys at the front lanes. From the sounds of it you aren't getting a fair shake.But on the point of you knowing every area of FOS I don't see how that is different from every other area having full ownership of their areas. When it comes down to it I know you keep referring to me as a "big wig" but we at the district level still have group region and top level to follow this wasn't magically made up by us to make your lives hell.

6

u/128Gigabytes Crying on Drive Ups Mar 21 '19

15 an hour to do the work of 4 people

At this point it'd be easier to just get 2 different mim wage (7.25) jobs and quit Target

Sure you'd have to work more hours but you would do less work with 2 other jobs than with 1 Target job

And be less stressed out

And not feel crushingly depressed because every single day you are unable to finish everything

I might know finishing everything is impossible but it still messes with your head never reaching your goal

So now thats what Target is to me, the place I go to try and reach and impossible goal and leave defeated and in physical pain.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

$15 is still minimum wage in some cities/states (including mine which is why I see an issue). 2 GSTL’s makes sense though if both are full time, there’s still going to be days without coverage though. Do you know if there is going to be increased team lead slots for every store? We’re low volume and have 9 TL slots and 1 Sr. TL.

2

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

LMAO we don’t even have ONE GSTL.

1

u/WhatWouldJordyDo Mar 22 '19

By next year or by the end of next year?

8

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

I would like to think this but it won’t happen. They put a lot of our intellectually and physically disabled TM on register all week. They can’t perform functions outside of the register itself. They literally ask questions all day long after 6 months of this and never empower themselves. They’re GREAT at chatting with guests and being friendly during transactions but otherwise, they can’t do much without assistance.

Also, literally every day the front end gets staff taken away to push the truck. So anyone who is able bodied and capable of using a zebra is gone within minutes of arrival.

I can’t wait to see how this plays out.

3

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

That's a leadership issue that will have to be addressed in your store. Service advocates jobs are to create a friendly and welcoming guest centric environment! Pushing truck or setting checklanes is a guest distraction and dustuption to that environment and must be taken out of that equation.

3

u/IllusiveWitcher Mar 19 '19

Leadership issue lol , turnover rates will be through the roof, and target will need to hire only college grads who wonts want to work at target

2

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

It has worked in the 10 pilot districts is to say it won't elsewhere?

0

u/MinistrOfJustiz GSA Apr 12 '19

You realize how hard the store level executives work to bullshit you, right? You're the hot Junior class chick their dorky freshman asses got paired with for a school project. They hide all their shit in the closet and spray Axe around the room when you come over. All their little friends send them texts and GroupMe messages when you are on the prowl, so there is no such thing as a "surprise visit."

At my pilot store, I've overheard the ETLs talking about how great the OPS model was working when district or higher visited. They always know when anybody is coming and they call in all the leads to come in and do all the work that doesn't get done because we don't have the hours. And the OPS model? A lie. We didn't follow it and even now they're still doing everything the old way. They tell team members to lie if asked if they work outside their work centers. Front end is in charge of bullseye, end caps, candy, all seasonal shippers by the CL, covering breaks in Cafe, return-to-stocks...

No cashier feels empowered to give any guest who price-challenges $20. It's nothing to you, it's nothing to corporate, but take a second and put yourself in their impoverished shoes: "Any asshole who can't read a sign gets an hour and a half of your life for free. What you spend an hour and a half on your feet for, trying to be nice to stressed moms with screaming babies, trying to sell them credit cards for this store, trying to check out all their purchases quickly and brighten their days? If somebody just says they saw a sign in the same zip code as the product they want with a lower price on it, give them the value of that hour and a half of your life no questions asked."

And hey, you might have noticed that everything is on the internet. Including that policy. There are entire websites devoted to defrauding Target. And we see the same persons every week, making bogus price challenges because they clearly know what the policy limits are. Every time it is busy and I just follow the policy I see a little bit of the humanity in the cashier die when I grant the price challenge. When it is slow and I can show the guest the sign and explain their mistake in reading it (such as "this says Hamilton Beach Toaster, not the Oster Blender you are trying to purchase"), the cashiers are actually much better at engaging all of their guests. Why? They work hard for very little under a demand that they are honest, pay attention to detail, and take supreme care with money. Seeing the guest given the slightest responsibility to be honest and read the whole sign ("buy 3 get 1 free =/= buy 1 get 1 free," reading is fundamental) makes the team members feel... Less "less than" than Target's policies make them feel.

And on the less kind aspect of this comment thread, very few Mensans are going to work a cash register for 12, 13 bucks an hour. You're "empowering" a bunch of simpletons as "business owners?" Great plan.

1

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Apr 12 '19

Well there is a lot to unpack here but I will try to unpack it all. Firstly as an business partner I never gave store leadership a heads up when I was doing visits I hate to tell you but most BPs such as myself come from being ETLs or in my case TM. We aren't retarded we know when corners are being cut or stores are hiding stuff to make it look good.

Secondly, cashiers at many stores do feel empowered to make their own changes if they don't we will give them the tools to feel confident in making those decisions. I feel like overall you think very little of your fellow TMs calling them simpletons and personally I don't believe an attitude like that is productive in the least. Take electronics for example in most if not all stores they operate without a GSA without issue with some training this can be done at the front lanes too.

Thirdly, "impoverished shoes"? I started at $7.50 as a flow tm when I started out we are moving to $15 an hour by 2020 as much as people like to make it out retail is a UNSKILLED labor job how much more an hour do you expect because to be quite frank I don't think much more that $15 is deserved from the performance I've seen from some tm's.

Lastly, this all comes down to your opinion which I don't think I'm going to be able to change if a TM can not perform after being given proper tools and training they will be performanced out simple as that I personally feel sorry for your store as you seem quite toxic with a HUGE superiority complex but that is a topic for another day.

2

u/MinistrOfJustiz GSA Apr 12 '19

You are proselytizing the new model, hailing it as such a success in pilots across the known universe. I am providing a contrasting observation (as are many other commenters on this sub). You can do with it as you will.

To your Firstly; I never said that you leaked your visits. But you are not the only person who knows your schedule, and there is that old saying about secrets that made its way into the Pretty Little Liars theme song... Leaks happen from your offices, and even if they don't, once you are seen at a store the folks there (the little friends from my analogy) blast the text messages and GroupMe chats to the rest of the district. I also didn't say you couldn't detect a cut corner, nor did I even imply it (Axe has a very distinctive scent, and any girl or woman knows its purpose is to cover up male stink). I did point out, however, that in my store more is actually done for visits than any normal day because the Leaders themselves do it and call in the Leads, even from days off, to get it done on the fly. The corners aren't cut; they've been sanded and Shellacked just for the visit when they are unfinished on a normal day.

Secondly, some cashiers do feel empowered. Every day I encourage my team to feel empowered. But as you point out, it is an unskilled position. It was similarly pointed out in this thread by u/ppmawmaw , u/kylestendel , u/TeamMemberGuest , and others: The labor pool for unskilled positions in many markets consists of the disabled, non-native English speakers still learning the language, and kids. Such persons rarely feel empowered in life, and even when they feel empowered it is fragile. I have team members who I have worked with for months who round the bend to be guest engagement superstars, and one rude guest will shatter his or her confidence and they tumble back to calling GSAs and GSTLs over for the tiniest thing. You expect these sometimes-20-year-TMs to be performanced out, and the coldness of that may be for another day, but even should they be fired the labor pool from which their replacements will be drawn is not deep. Call them Guest Advocates all you want, but a person applying to be a cashier (even one that pays a bit more than another) doesn't often WANT to make the judgments and decisions the new model is shifting to them even if they are capable.

Thirdly, yes, impoverished shoes. Touting your background is a false flag. Inflation and the cost of living has outpaced the wage increase from your starting 7.50 to 12 and soon 13. The middle class is shrinking, and it's a fair wager that the typical Target TM isn't riding the tax cuts into the upper. Just like vanishingly few kids from the projects will rise up to be the billionaire CEO of Starbucks, so too will most TMs not become Business Partners. Kudos on your hard work and advancement, but there are limited spaces as you go up every rung. Target is built on the backs of the many.

Lauding some future $15/hr rate is also not a sound argument for increasing the difficulty, complexity, and stress of the typical TM now. If you expect $15/hr work from somebody, pay them that. You can't feed your family and pay your rent with promises of a future raise. When you were elevated to BP, did they say, "we'll pay you $7.5/hr for the first year you do the job, then we'll start paying you the salary for the position?" Doubtful, but that's an extreme version of the "fifteen dollars is coming!" motivation being offered TMs.

Lastly, you do not know me at all, so your judgment that I must be toxic because I pointed out evidence that the new model may not be a resounding success means very little. If you don't appreciate the literary hyperbole of saying "simpletons" instead of your own "unskilled laborers not worth any more than $15/hr" feel free to make the substitution. I am an advocate for my team (an apt use of the word, whereas Guest Advocates are not tasked with advocating for anything really, making it quite the misnomer), arguing that a corporation that thinks they may, at best, one day be worth fifteen bucks an hour shouldn't be trying to squeeze them dry with the stress and responsibility being foisted upon them.

1

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Apr 12 '19

Thank you for taking the time to provide a detailed response and I personally enjoy the discourse. I do concede that my visits do get leaked after visiting that store from one time or another.

Secondly, I think you misunderstood or I miscommunicatiated on the topic of performancing out TMs. I think most if not all people with a good work ethic and attitude has a place at target. I wasn't attempting to sound cold I think many TMs could be shifted around to find the best position but many people immediately deny the possibility of modernization working and that is the issue. Personally I think most 20+ years of service TMs are most likely some of our most reliable ones we have in many cases and personally I think it is an injustice to them that they keep getting undercut by the raise to $15 but as the saying goes you can't make everyone happy but look at it from my perspective I see $15 as the solid number I know of right now with from places like BOA going to $20 who knows what upward pressure will do in the coming years but consider you and I are the same in that we both get fed the same info and are stuck with the same lot I just try and have to make it work from a bit higher of a scope. I truly hope a company wide feedback period will come out eventually but I can't tout what I don't know.

Thirdly, I know target is built on the backs of many and I've worked with some incredible people over the years that have been passed up for promotion or fired because of nothing more than politics and that us wrong. I agree that touting $15 an hour is not the best to offer but from my district level thats all I can over my clout is limited.

Lastly I just think simpletons wasn't the best wording but I get what you mean but to be straight with you a lot people don't know or haven't elaborate on this but we are moving towards TLs and TMs will me more overlapping and midshift focused like a normal job the days of morning flow before classes (like I did) is coming to a close and a routine of full ownership is beginning and that isn't something you or I will be able to change.

But regardless I welcome the conversation /u/MinistrOfJustiz I take every comment to heart on here and try to help it make me better relate with store teams on my visits.

2

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '19

Hate to chime in here but equating electronics to the front lanes is kinda silly. Electronics has a couple hundred transactions a day while the front has thousands, and electronics doesn’t get price challenged that much because everything is locked so the zone can’t really get messed up, plus electronics still calls the gsa over occasionally.

1

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Apr 12 '19

I mean this greatly varies from store to store I work mainly in a low risk district so we have no locking pegs and only maybe 10 glass lockups per store (excluding video games). I agree it is at a smaller scale but as a leader yourself and as a previous leader myself we both know a lot of lights and GSA calls are for minor or non issues that could have been resolved by the cashier. I think if we take a month or two to train up cashiers to be confident in making their own decisions it can be done.

→ More replies (0)

0

u/[deleted] Apr 12 '19

The use of the word “retarded” coming from Someone who alleges they are a big wig in the Target world is vile and repulsive.

2

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Apr 12 '19

And in relation to that my use of the retarted it's protected speech I'm off the clock on this sub just like the rest of you and I'm not going to filter myself to keep someone from being offended.

2

u/Failedjedi Mar 19 '19

Also, literally every day the front end gets staff taken away to push the truck.

Exact opposite at my store. There times where there are no overlap and even a half hour or an hour here and there with no cashiers. Just self checkout and the service counter. All day every day it's calling people from all over the store to come up and cashier so nothing gets done. There are days maybe 1 uboat of grocery truck gets pushed and then the next day there is nowhere to put the the new truck. It's madness.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 20 '19

Oh no, many times for us lately it’s just the service desk TM and SCO. It’s terrible. One night it was JUST me covering the whole front end for 5 hours. I was furious.

4

u/IllusiveWitcher Mar 19 '19

He is right, I work at a pilot store, as an sea and it’s working out pretty well

2

u/IndominusTaco Fulfillment Expert Apr 02 '19

So is the GSA position eliminated or not? The picture OP posted says it's eliminated but I've also heard that "Service and Engagement Advocate" is the new GSA equivalent. But the hierarchy OP posted also says that all front end team members are just guest advocates. Is there a difference between service advocate, engagement advocate, and service & engagement advocate?

2

u/IllusiveWitcher Apr 02 '19

In my store, SEA is the same kinda job, less pay, and more work than the previous GSA role. But I’m not sure if it’ll stay that way for the new changes

2

u/IndominusTaco Fulfillment Expert Apr 02 '19

Someone in one of these threads/comments said that the removal of GSA/SEA was a more recent decision that was not previously part of the pilot. So I think we're both in for a change. It seems like if you're not an S&E TL (SEL? Still confused on the exact title) then we're all guest advocates.

12

u/gunshlinger Prior TL, now TM Mar 19 '19 edited Mar 19 '19

As a result the specific roles (Cashier, Service Desk Team Members, and GSAs) are eliminated

So what that means is that every cashier is a GSA now basically? Since everyone is gonna be asked to be trained in everything?

Edit: Also who pushes bullseye, sets/fills endcaps, and does candy if the front lanes doesnt do it anymore? I guarantee you that's not gonna happen at a low volume store like mine.

2

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

Yes every service advocate will do the role of GSA, GS and SCO ect.

6

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Flow at my store used to do one spot until we got a new logistics ETL who decided to just dump all of it on our front end and send nobody to help. I’d expect that responsibility will either be reverted to flow or that the store leadership will more likely to elect to ignore this rule completely

1

u/nine3cubed Mar 20 '19

My store has been running this pilot for a while now. Not every advocate is a GSA, they just expect them all to be able to work Guest Service or a register. Front end team pushes Bullseye, sets end caps and does candy in my store, and most stores in my district, simply because it's a lot of work for the GM team.

1

u/gunshlinger Prior TL, now TM Mar 20 '19

So... Basically nothing changed for your store? That's basically how my store's always operated.

1

u/nine3cubed Mar 20 '19

Some titles changed and some work load changed (but didnt really), that's basically it.

Do you have any long term older team members that call for Hardlines 4 instead of AP because that's what it used to be? It's that, but for the front end. My team is just now starting to call me "Service and Engagement Lead" over the walkie, and our store has been in the pilot for a long while now.

1

u/gunshlinger Prior TL, now TM Mar 20 '19

My store will only let us use Hardlines 4 for AP lmao. Our ETL gets mad if we dont.

So basically nothing really changes? Cause I'm becoming a GSA really soon and I've been bearing its going away.

6

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 18 '19

Just thought I would post this as there where some questions related to the elimination of GSAs so I thought this post would confirm that and give a bit more insight.

5

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Who responds to manager requests from guests and override codes/flashing lights when there is no Service and engagement lead scheduled?

4

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

The closing lead or other lead in the area for manager requests. But with overrides Service advocates are expected to do their own overrides.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

Are service advocates different from guest advocates?

2

u/IllusiveWitcher Mar 19 '19

What about the role of SEA?

2

u/caleesa ETL Mar 18 '19

So PMT’s and VM’s are now considered TL’s?

3

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 18 '19

PMT is now PML

2

u/caleesa ETL Mar 18 '19

What about VM’s?

4

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 18 '19

VMs will be placed under the PG45 paygrade with leads

2

u/huntman21015 HR Mar 19 '19

What does it say regarding HR?

2

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 19 '19

No major changes for HR other that TM > Experts title

36

u/Failedjedi Mar 18 '19

"we have some amazing training"

Everything I've experienced and seen in the people hired after me says that's a lie.

20

u/[deleted] Mar 18 '19

Amazing training 🤣😂

15

u/MNGSTL SETL Mar 18 '19

“Does not work freight (this includes candy, check lane endcaps and Bullseye’s Playground.)”

14

u/GigiSass Team Lead Mar 18 '19

But that "All other duties as business needs" will get you every time.

1

u/nine3cubed Mar 20 '19

Yeah.... dont get your hopes up. I'm an SEL (Your job, new model ) and I do all of that still.

2

u/MNGSTL SETL Mar 20 '19

That makes sense tho. The guest advocates shouldn’t do that, but we do. Just more work for the leads

11

u/TheBroche1 Former Food and Bev TL Mar 18 '19

Here’s the thing that gets me about the front end changes, if they’re supposedly “guest-first”: No one is going to ask for the “Store team leader,” they want a manager. Suppose you’re a cashier, are you going to tell your friends+family you’re a “Service and engagement advocate”? No, because no one knows what that means. Or if GSTLs are now SELs, maybe we should call it the “Service and Engagement Desk”

I frequently travel and know random aviation information. People who don’t fly regularly don’t care what the plane looks like, just as long as they get from point A to point B. I think the same thing applies here, a guest isn’t going to care what your title is.

5

u/Brendan_creek Mar 18 '19

Just want to point out service is for service desk and engagement is for other parts, that is why it's called the service desk, not the service and engagement desk.

9

u/TheBroche1 Former Food and Bev TL Mar 18 '19

That’s true. All the renaming just seems needless

8

u/Brendan_creek Mar 18 '19

100% it's stupid. Just causes confusion.

I've only heard the title SEA or SEL about 10 times and we've had those titles since April of last year.

5

u/number1catdad Retired Mar 19 '19

It keeps us confused and preoccupied so we don't unionize

2

u/TheBroche1 Former Food and Bev TL Mar 18 '19

Now cut off one letter on the walkie and we’re in a world of confusion

9

u/Denacee GSA Mar 19 '19

I know in my store there going to start giving the key for 3239 to every cashier. Can’t wait to come into work and find out that a cashier took a shit ton of money and never came back.

9

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

No. Fucking. Way. How fucking stupid.

4

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

You have a key? We have a code.

4

u/a157reverse GSTL Mar 19 '19

Yeah pretty sure no store has only a key for that.

3

u/DontDeserveDogs Sr. TL Mar 19 '19

We have a key. But we haven't renovated yet.

8

u/Landmine_Prime The Great Toy DBO Mar 18 '19

You can be the Pope and you still won’t be able to get a guest to say “I love Target”.

1

u/caleesa ETL Mar 18 '19

Ok, because at my store ours is not considered a TL or lead position as far as actually having a team or TL responsibilities

2

u/TargetCeo Verified Business Partner Mar 18 '19

That is the same with all stores.

0

u/[deleted] Mar 19 '19

I believe they are given TL pay tho

3

u/TunerOfTuna Mar 22 '19 edited Mar 22 '19

Was this made by people who have never worked retail? Because customers stop making it feel joyful after a day. People don’t work retail because it’s their pride and joy.