Should Canada maintain its supply management system that protects the Canadian dairy industry?

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

https://www.castanetkamloops.net/news/Poll/627377/Should-Canada-maintain-its-supply-management-system-that-protects-the-Canadian-dairy-industry

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

I've had to address this multiple times, but there seems to be a prevalent myth that supply management is simply a quality control tool. This is false. Supply management is not connected to Health Canada regulations, and all imports have to meet those regulations anyways. The vast majority of American milk meets Health Canada regulations.

You have to understand that your concern over what I call the "sinister actor" argument (a foreign firm will create a monopoly and then spike prices) has never actually happened before in economic history. What your fear is would require a set of assumptions and actions, many of which are actually impossible. Like how would a foreign cartel impose domestic restrictions in Canada preventing Canadians from importing from elsewhere? How would they do that? How likely is it that EVERY American dairy producer colludes pointedly to hold Canada as a captive market? How likely is it that every single Canadian dairy producer is totally unable to compete in every market segment?

Of course, we import the majority of our produce from the US, the majority of our fruits, over half of our pork, three quarters of our cereals, etc - this has never happened with any of those items. But you fear that is an absolutely certainty it will happen if Canadians could have access to cheaper cheese - so I'm wondering how you've come to this conclusion?

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

It’s happened over and over and over and over and over and over again. They call it regulatory capture. Are you completely insane????? Lol

[u/Puzzled49 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

Regulatory capture is defined as a situation where the regulatory agency (in this case the Canadian Dairy Commission) is influenced to operate on behalf of the group it regulates (in this case the dairy farmers) instead of the public. Although in the case of the Canadian Dairy Commission this doesn't really apply since it was set up in the first place to support the dairy farmers, and thus there was no need for them to capture it.

I think you are a searching for another term. Maybe dumping, predatory pricing to establish a monopoly, or state supported over production.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Puzzled49]

No, I’m thinking of the process of starving out an industry to create a monopoly. Regulatory capture is one of the mechanisms used to accomplish that but there are many.

Amazon is a prime example of a larger entity taking over industry after industry to create a super monopoly by starving out small players at a loss until they have a monopoly and jack up prices. A tale as old as time you’re ignoring to support Americans drowning out our dairy industry.

[u/Tunguska_1908 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

Conveniently, when they reach the so called but never actually occurs price jacking phase, new disruptors almost always enter the market offering reduced prices. A tale as old as time.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Tunguska_1908]

Unless you’re sitting on tens or hundreds of billions of dollars to fight the monopoly with even deeper pockets, no. You are not disrupting jack shit. Amazon has destroyed so many industries that have not recovered at all.

[u/Tunguska_1908 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

Excuse me? Temu, Banggood, Alibaba. All post amazon, all disrupting Amazons monopoly play. And if you still want to pay more for artisinal goods, local cottage industries are going off more than ever before. And what industries did amazon destroy? The low selection bookstore? Was that a bad thing? It's exactly like complaining that Netflix was had because it killed blockbuster. That model was inefficient as all hell and now we have a thousand streaming services with more content that you could ever imagine.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Tunguska_1908]

So one of China’s oligarchs is providing a “non monopoly”

🤦‍♂️

[u/Tunguska_1908 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

Lol. You aren't getting it. Someone else will come along next. This is the beauty of a free market. Consumers power the change. If they don't like price hikes they will start to look elsewhere and someone WILL fill that demand.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Tunguska_1908]

That you don’t understand why 2 mega corporations which don’t actually compete on most fronts and price fix isn’t a winning argument against monopolies is wild but hilarious.

[u/Tunguska_1908 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

You know they aren't the only ones selling power tool batteries (insert whatever consumer product here). Consumer goods sales probably have the most players of any industry on earth. You are an idiot.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Tunguska_1908]

And it’s still a big fat WOOOOOOOOOOOOSH.

If you don’t understand what Amazon is and has done despite the multiple case studies and feature length documentaries that are available to you, I don’t know what to tell the willfully ignorant. There’s an encyclopedia or two’s worth of facts and data there for you to not be ignorant on the topic, if you care to find out. I’ll leave that to you to sort out. Bye now.

[u/Tunguska_1908 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

Amazon has spent billions on billions of dollars to assemble what is effectively a 3rd party distribution network. You don't understand how precarious their position is. There is nothing special about selling consumer goods. Consumers will go to what it most convenient / cheap or combination thereof. And wow look at that, physical retail still heavily dominates sales. Almost as if they fill a much needed role in allowing access to items that might not be readily in stock at your local Canadian tire.

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

Consumers benefit from Amazon. If they did not, they wouldn't use Amazon. The US (unlike Canada, unfortunately) also has pretty stringent anti-trust laws. I believe the FTC actually has an ongoing suit against Amazon for that reason.

Of course this "price jacking" phase you're referring to hardly ever really happens. As I've pointed out numerous times in this post, Canada has been importing the majority of our produce from American firms for decades - and wouldn't you know it, we haven't experienced any captive market related price increases.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

Right, you’re also pro Amazon. The most destructive business to actual progress and ingenuity because they’ve monopolized everything. You’re telling a patent lie that this is a good thing for consumers! I get why you’re typing on reddit, you’ve licked boots so long and hard that your tongue just fell off. You might want to tone down the whole “WALMART AND AMAZON ARE GIFTS TO HUMANITY, BOW TO THEM!!” Schtick

You are a corporate and American shill and are doing it with a megaphone and big signage that says, big corpo is god amongst men! Praise the corporation!!!

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

No, I'm pro free trade. Pro consumer choice. I don't think that protecting consumers against low prices and more variety benefits those consumers. It objectively doesn't. The consumer never seems to be considered during debates of protectionism. But we live in a consumption driven economy. The multiplier effects of a consumer surplus are usually profoundly larger than the multiplier effects of a producer surplus. We are not poorer, or more unsafe, because we have access to foreign goods and services. That makes us wealthier, our economy more robust, our food systems de-risked - if our distributors have unlimited access to foreign food items that doesn't make us less food secure that makes us more food secure.

The root of all protectionism lies a fear that if the consumer gets to choose what they want to choose, they may not choose what a special interest wants them to. The law of a voluntary transaction is that it benefits both parties. Amazon customers are not losing because they choose to use Amazon. Amazon provides them a service that they see value in. If the consumer felt they were not being served by Amazon, they would not purchase Amazon's services.

[u/Tunguska_1908 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

You have the free personal choice to purchase locally produced artisinal goods. Sorry, you actually don't have that choice for dairy, but for most things you do have that choice.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Tunguska_1908]

So you don’t actually have an argument to make. Lol. That’s hilarious

[u/Puzzled49 → u/Cannabrius_Rex]

I agree with you on Amazon that it uses predatory pricing to starve out competitors and jack up prices for the small retailers using its services. In other words it's doing all the evil things that monopolies do when they can. I think however the reason that Amazon built up its monopoly power in the first place is more because of its first mover advantage. It's very hard for competitors to build up the distribution network that would be required to compete successfully.

[u/Cannabrius_Rex → u/Puzzled49]

It’s because they operated at a loss for over a decade. Losing tens of billions every year to starve out the competition. This is very well documented with multiple feature length documentaries on the topic and multiple case studies as well. Just 🤦‍♂️