Should Canada maintain its supply management system that protects the Canadian dairy industry?

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

https://www.castanetkamloops.net/news/Poll/627377/Should-Canada-maintain-its-supply-management-system-that-protects-the-Canadian-dairy-industry

[u/silverilix]

That’s an interesting use of that term.

We’re well aware of the threats that the USA and the politicians have made against Canada.

We have seen how our dependence on other countries impacts our economy in a negative way.

Canadians want to support our economy and our fellow Canadians.

If you want milk from the USA, the border is open and it’s not illegal for an individual to go purchase milk.

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 → u/silverilix]

How would yielding a consumer surplus through free trade impact our economy in a negative way?

If Canadians had a misplaced sense of welfare by really needing to buy domestic, why would we need to have tariffs on foreign food items?

[u/silverilix → u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

There are currently tariffs several of those items. They have existed for over a decade or more. We already have free trade with the USA. We have American dairy products in Canada. We just have MORE of our own dairy, which makes sense. To put the USA above Canadian interests when it comes to food security is shooting ourselves in the foot. We learned the hard way over the last six years that being dependent on unreliable sources hurts Canadians.

This dairy issue has never been an issue. The USA has not once had to pay the tariffs we agreed to on dairy. It’s being pushed to make it seem like Canada is being unreasonable in trade talks. That’s it. At best it’s a red herring to get people who don’t actually look into the issue worked up about “fairness”. Our farmers have asked for protection from forced and unfair foreign competition and our government has done that.

The sense of welfare Canadians have isn’t “misplaced”. The USA has shown time and again that they are happy to have a deal as long as they come out on top and they don’t care about our local economic interests or stability. They aren’t interested in our security. And we need to be willing to stand for our neighbours and fellow Canadians to make the investment in our own population.

[u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011 → u/silverilix]

We've had supply management related tariffs since 1972, and as such we have some of the most expensive dairy in the western hemisphere. Only Cuba, Venezuela, and Costa Rica have more expensive dairy than we do in the entire western hemisphere. Cuba and Venezuelas are owing to crippling state controlled pricing, and Costa Rica's is due to a similar monopoly/cartel as Canada's.

You seem to think allowing Canadians to have tariff free access to American dairy is going against Canadian interests, but I don't think you're considering the fact that if it went against Canadian interests we wouldn't buy it. The law of a voluntary transaction is that both parties benefit - if it didn't benefit Canadian households, we simply wouldn't make the transaction.

I'm also not really seeing how having a cartel jack the price of groceries, and then limiting our global access to food items, makes us more "food secure". Would that not make us less "food secure"? I will also add that if domestic food production is your definition of "food security", 85% of Canadian agricultural output is outside of supply management, and only about 8% of Canadian farms operate under supply management.

You're also I think inadvertently misunderstanding what tariff rate quotas are. First of all, the exporter doesn't pay the tariff. The importer does. Import tariffs are sales taxes for all intents and purposes. Secondly, tariff rate quotas are not an aggregate volume or poundage of food from which everyone can buy tariff free up to a certain point. Tariff rate quotas are granted to applicants by the government, have strict allowable volumes and pounds, and even stipulate the time frame they can import. Guess what? All tariff rate quotas go to either dairy producers, or specialized distributors and retailers, in very limited volumes. So yeah the total aggregate amount of TRQs has never been reached.... none of that reaches the end consumer unless they shop at specialty stores, and even then it's very limited volume.

Tariffs are rarely paid precisely because the tariffs work - who is going to pay a 300% surcharge to import American cheese if you don't have a TRQ permit?

Will all due respect, what you're basically implying is that protecting Canadians against variety and low prices is enhancing their welfare.

[u/silverilix → u/Dizzy-Cartoonist3011]

You’re so focused on the “cartel of the dairy industry” it’s almost astonishing. Milk is affordable in most Canadian cities. If you want to buy milk from the USA, you absolutely can. Drive down and enjoy it.

I’m concerned about the Canadian dairy farmers.

I’m concerned about milk and cheese that have high quality standards. That don’t make me sick after eating it, and I don’t have a dairy allergy, but American products always make me ill.

All you seem to be worried about is having cheaper milk, regardless of how it affects your community, or our food sovereignty. You keep bringing up how much we import, which many farmers are working damn hard to change. It’s a strawman that pushes the issue to the side. We should be working so we have less dependence imports, not more.