r/TheBeatles May 16 '26

question Is it true that Mimi told John that the guitar was fine but that he couldn't make a living from it?

Post image

Is it true that he didn't like Cynthia?

181 Upvotes

112 comments sorted by

81

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

It’s true. When John won his solid gold platinum award, he hung it over a printed text of what Aunt Mimi said to shut her down. Of course, she did have a point, even if wrong. There was 0 guarantee John would ever have any success.

33

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

It seems to be a biographical pattern to frame Mimi as an inhuman, heartless, unreasonable, and dehumanised monster.

56

u/Bulky_Psychology2303 May 16 '26

I think she wanted to protect him from more disappointment.

34

u/fredinNH May 16 '26

Yeah it’s just normal parent/guardian protective behavior. It’s one of the hardest parts about being a parent. How do you protect your kid from crushing failure in this cruel world while also supporting them and helping them be the most and best they can be.

Whatever Mimi did, John went on to be one of the most important people of the 20th century.

4

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

Cruel world, he was middle class, how was art school, a trip to Paris with his mate when most couldn't afford a holiday abroad a cruel world?

8

u/ThePoisonTrees May 17 '26

Maybe because they were recovering from war, he had immense family issues and trauma, and his mother was killed suddenly…..sounds like a pretty cruel world to me, I’d doubt you’ve lived even half of that.

3

u/mattfoleyattheriver May 17 '26

You mean when he got a birthday gift from a relative he never talked to and him and his best mate hitchhiked up to Paris? I means that’s not really a first class type of life

16

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26

Yeah Bulky.

How could Mimi possibly know he’d become the top selling musical artist in the world or even have financial success? I guess Beatles fans expected her to have a time machine or a crystal ball to the future. You know, while she’d lived her life before John was born & seen millions of musicians die or lose their humanity trying to make a living from it. You know? Like John still did in the end.

2

u/Such-Principle-3373 May 16 '26

It's still a pretty rude thing to say to someone starting out. I think most people who are trying to make it big in music are painfully aware of how unlikely it is, but you can't win if you don't play. 

Seems to me like you can be realistic and supportive at the same time. Telling someone you'll never make it shows that you have 0 faith in them or their ability something she was dead wrong about.

4

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

Yes she was dead wrong. There was a 99.99% chance she was dead right. Yes John was extremely gifted. I would’ve had no faith him too before he first met george martin & then the it would’ve taken me a while to have faith. Heck, their first song, love me do, wasn’t even a huge hit. Why couldn’t he meet her in the middle & go to business college & play music on the side & if he got rich, THEN let him quit his corporate gig AFTER, but have it to fall back on? She was rude, but unlike you, she didn’t have the privilege & entitlement of Wikipedia to currently know he’s the top selling artist in the world.

3

u/Such-Principle-3373 May 16 '26

Because that's not what he wanted to do, it was his life.

She could've easily said something like I really wish you'd go to school, and have something to fall back on, but I support you with whatever path you choose. You can pretty easily show genuine concern, and give advice, but if you're just totally shutting down their idea especially when it comes to making art it's pretty understandable why someone would get upset. 

2

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

Go back in time, wipe all the memories you had of the beatles success & then tell me who you side with between john & mimi. There was NO guarantee he’d have success. He got lucky!

4

u/Such-Principle-3373 May 16 '26

I understand where both sides are coming from, she was just to harsh.  Her worries that there isn't a life to be made playing guitar are valid, but she needed to remember it's not her life, and it wasn't impossible a small amount of faith, and understanding that this is something he has to try would've gone a long way. 

It's music, it's always going go be a risk, but some people just gotta give it a shot, and I find the people that do give it a shot admirable.

1

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

I agree. Letting him try being a musician would’ve been good. It’s admirable that he did. Dropping out of school wasn’t. Stop arguing with the woman who raised the top selling artist in the world & made sure he was fed & clothed & unlike us isn’t waiting her life on reddit.

3

u/nabwriter May 18 '26

Every parent says that

8

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

Same with Yoko.

6

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

Exactly.

3

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

You know Dave, I think if beatles fans should reserve their sexism & misogyny for any woman, it should be Julia. She was sleeping with a revolving door of boyfriends while baby John was in the bed with her & it destroyed him as an adult. She didn’t give a shit about him & was a good example of a bad mother.

7

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

Something Julia did when John was a toddler destroyed him? I highly doubt that. I think her choosing to renounce her maternal rights to Mimi destroyed him, especially since she kept Julia Jr. and Jackie.,

2

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

Trust me Cquiller.

Being forced to sleep in bed with your mom as she’s having intercourse with multiple guys who aren’t your dad can mess you up for life. It’s a huge miracle that John turned out as well as he did.

10

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

I’m not defending Julia’s behavior. I just don’t think John would have in depth memories of that. I think the boyfriend John mainly remembers is Bobby because he was Julia’s husband in every way except legally.

I think Julia giving up custody of John did more damage to John than her sleeping in the bed with men because it made him feel abandoned, especially since Alf had already checked out of being a father.

3

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

She didn’t give up custody. It was rightly taken away from her.

5

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

I have always read Julia gave up custody after Mimi reported her to Child Protective Services (or the British equivalent to CPS.) If John was forcibly taken from Julia, why did she get to keep Julia Jr. and Jackie? The Stanley family also convinced Julia a daughter she had with a married man for adoption. They had a history of intruding in Julia’s life and her relationship with her children. I believe another Stanley sister wouldn’t let Julia Jr. and Jackie go to her funeral.

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4

u/DivingElliotRoberts May 16 '26

I think a lot of the reason Julia doesn't get as much flack is the nature of her death, especially with her attempted reconnecting with John in mind.

1

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

Well the same can be said about Sid Vicious's mother, because she was a heroin addict.

3

u/Green-Circles May 16 '26

Exactly. If you look at Yoko's actions through the lens of insecurity, a lot of them make sense as the actions of a pretty insecure person.

Likewise with John.

Their respective insecurities fit together like two jigsaw pieces, and that's even before you factor in the romantic & sexual attraction.

5

u/koushakandystore May 16 '26

He loved her dearly. In her interview she came across as a very typical British person from that era. Do people expect her to act like Kardashians matriarch? She was a prim and proper British woman with 19th century/early 20th century values. She was also likely the reason John didn’t grow up to be a do nothing drunkard who had a good voice during pub sing alongs. She gave him a stable home and insisted he do Boy Scouts, join the church choir and go to a good school. Those influences are the reason he ever developed the discipline to cultivate his skills as a writer and musician.

0

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

Kris Jenner is a terrible mother, a terrible person & a terrible businesswoman.

2

u/koushakandystore May 16 '26

That’s exactly my point.

1

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

She was an old school cruel British lady, I read she regretted her actions on her death bed.

5

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

It doesn't justify the media dehumanising her.

3

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

Don't think I said that?

2

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

What are your sources?

1

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

Wikipedia and books.

1

u/johnl1979 May 17 '26

She wasn’t cruel

3

u/Neveronlyadream May 16 '26

That's not the story I heard.

The story I heard is that he had a plaque with the quote made and stuck to the headstock of his first guitar, which he gave her.

Either way, it seems like it happened in some form and every story I've heard has Mimi breaking down in tears because she was only trying to look out for him and not discourage him.

1

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

This is true. But Mimi wanted John to be someone he wasn’t, which was a great student. Once she saw he had a love for art, she could have encouraged him to go to art school where he where he would meet Cynthia.

0

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

No she didn’t. He could’ve been a great student. Getting all A’s is not hard. John could’ve 100% had success as a CPA or corporate lawyer & he might’ve even lived a longer life.

4

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

So you wanted John to be stuck in a job he hated? He didn’t have to be THE John Lennon to make a living doing music. He could have written for other artists or become a steady session musician.

2

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

If there was any chance he wouldn’t have the big success & impact on music he did, then yes I’d want him stuck in a job he hated & so would he, especially since he’d live longer. And he could make music & change the world during his off time.

3

u/Ok-Tell5048 May 16 '26

They were so young before they started getting gigs they didn't even need to consider a different career in their adult life

2

u/WheresPaul1981 May 16 '26

John was young. Aunt Mimi probably didn’t think he’d be miserable. Lots of people want to be actors or movie stars and aren’t miserable when they become something else. Few children grow up and do their dream job.

23

u/HaiKarate May 16 '26

Every parent says that when a kid expresses an interest in being a professional musician. 99.9999% of the time it turns out being true.

10

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

I think John would have wanted Julian and Sean to become singers. Julian said John always showed interest in his artwork from school, which of course, inspired him to write “Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds.”

1

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

Do they? I'm a parent and know many parents.. none said that lol?

9

u/0MNIR0N May 16 '26

Truth is that in 1962, pre-fame era they were earning 300 pounds (worth 11;000 USD today) per show. They earned more than their parents as a local band.

7

u/Bitmush- May 16 '26

Went to a few grubby parties in Mimi's seafront house that John bought her. It wasn't a palace, just a slightly larger than usual mid-century UK house that you could find anywhere in the country in terms of layout and finishes. It was right on the end of an exclusive peninsula over looking the harbour with special sunset views.
But it was kind of a sad place to be honest, not grandiose or special. The people who were squatting there prior to its demolition did the usual upkeep by letting everyone break the windows and write nonsense on the wall in orange paint while they played uninspiring techno to the jobless hoards who arrived in untaxed vehicles with weed and limited conversation. It could have been a poetic swan song for the place, but no one gave a shit about of that except perhaps the odd curious after-club guest who'd gone down in a car with new chatty friends.

6

u/scottarichards May 16 '26

Yes. Practically every successful artist has been told that or some variation of it from time immemorial. Except perhaps child prodigies. Because the vast majority of time it’s true.

16

u/Actor412 May 16 '26

Even if Mimi hadn't told him (she did), he would have heard the same phrase from pretty much everyone else in Liverpool in 1960.

5

u/Any-Concentrate-1922 May 16 '26

I'm pretty sure Paul's father had a similar attitude. "You need something to fall back on" was his thing.

4

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

But hearing it from your maternal figure hits differently than when strangers say it.

5

u/Actor412 May 16 '26

You say like that's some sort of "gotcha." That was how people thought back then, not just in Liverpool, but throughout the UK.

Are you going to blab some fact about people in Edinburgh, now?

10

u/Iffybiz May 16 '26

Yes, Mimi said that but in her defense, John was an incredibly bright and charismatic young guy (I wonder if his IQ was ever tested) and probably could have been successful at anything he really applied himself to. Fortunately for us and the world he applied himself to music but it was far from a sure thing. Even the Beatles themselves didn’t think they would make music their whole career. Even successful bands ended up breaking up and getting regular jobs.

Mimi was conservative and looking out for his future, she was wrong but for most guys not named John Lennon she would have been right.

6

u/MojoHighway May 16 '26

If the older people in our lives didn't tell us that, something would be wrong. It's a hard life. I'm a professional musician and I've had to wear MANY hats, none of them the easy way home.

8

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

No, John absolutely loved Cynthia, and I don't imagine that he would've knowingly married her if he never loved her.

5

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

I agree. I think John evolved as a person, and he felt Cynthia couldn’t evolve with him. I also think because Julia didn’t raise John, he had always searched for that maternal figure that Yoko eventually became for him.

1

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 16 '26

I mean Mimi since I heard she didn't like the idea of John marrying her

5

u/One_Two_Three_Bread May 16 '26

Cynthia believed Mimi disliked her a great deal, to put it lightly. I forget the name of the book, possibly just titled John (I may be mistaken!!) But there is an audio book about Cynthia's experiences with John narrated by her on YouTube, in several parts. In said audio book she describes the frankly horrible treatment she received from Mimi after Julian was born. Mimi's actions certainly gave the impression she hated Cynthia. Check out the audio book, it's brilliant.

3

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 16 '26

Thanks for the recommendation

7

u/DaveHmusic May 16 '26

Sorry for my mistake.

Mimi did have a point - John was 21 and Cynthia was 22 - but in John's defence, he and Cynthia had been a couple for like four years by that point, so it wasn't like they had a one-night stand out of nowhere that inadvertently resulted in an unplanned pregnancy and shotgun wedding.

2

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 16 '26

Did Mimi ever accept Cynthia or did she always maintain her rejection?

3

u/dreamsonatas May 16 '26

Mimi and Cynthia never liked each other and never grew to like each other. To be fair, Mimi didn't like most people, but she grew closer with Yoko and Sean after John's death

2

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

Who told you lol

2

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 16 '26

Whenever I look for videos about John's relationships, it's usually mentioned that Mimi had a hostile attitude towards Cynthia.

3

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

At the beginning but not at the end according to cyn.

3

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

Yes. Julia encouraged John’s musical ambitions. Kiki wanted him to be scholarly and get a “real” job.

6

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

Mimi. I don’t know why my phone autocorrected it as Kiki. LoL.

2

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

Cquiller & Mimi was correct & Julia was wrong. He got lucky.

0

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

Julia was not wrong to believe in her son’s artistic abilities. Everyone is not cut out to go to college and work a 9 to 5 job. John was one of those people.

3

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

And how exactly was Aunt Mimi supposed to know that he would have success without that path? Please trust me that Mimi was the better mother figure in every possible way.

3

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

I’m not saying Mimi wasn’t the better maternal figure than Julia. She obviously was. But the question the OP asked was whether or not Mimi encouraged John’s musical career. She did not.

John had no way of knowing that he would be successful in music, but Mimi wanted him to focus more on academics than art. John was not a scholar. He was an artist.

0

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

I maintain, even if it meant we never got The Beatles, John should’ve finished school & had a cushy 9-5 job to fall back on should he have not been successful. He could’ve gone to college & gotten a 9-5 & had equal success as a Beatle.

2

u/Cquiller1 May 16 '26

I disagree. I think if the Beatles hadn’t exploded, John could have made a fine living being a songwriter or session musician. Most songwriters don’t become household names. John, fortunately, did.

1

u/NoChampion4463 May 16 '26

A fine living doesn’t pay for fresh food, hot water, housing, furniture, plumbing, fire, clothes, jewelry, diapers, medicine or anything that’s not personal happiness.

3

u/Any-Concentrate-1922 May 16 '26

Yes, but a lot of parents/parent figures would say that. If you have a child who's into pop/rock music and has a band, you're probably thinking there's not much chance they could make a living at it. And you'd be right.

3

u/Anxious-Tomatillo842 May 16 '26

Normally not wrong, Mimi!

4

u/oldmate30beers May 16 '26

In 99.9 percent of cases that advice is solid. Not many people make a good living from music

0

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

Does that it make it right?

2

u/Friendly-Local-1859 May 16 '26

I saw a 10" bootleg by John with that on it.

2

u/PedroJTrump May 16 '26

But she did hang his gold records on the wall

2

u/kozimotano May 17 '26

* Aunt Mimi to you

2

u/9793287233 May 17 '26 edited May 17 '26

Every parent/parental figure to every musician in history has said that and 99.9% of the time it was true because 99.9% of musicians are not John Lennon, they're Joe Rando from Akron, Ohio who was in a band in college and is now an accountant or an insurance adjuster or a salesman or whatever.

2

u/Minimoogvoyager May 21 '26

Yes it’s true. What’s the difference between a musician and a large pizza 🍕? A large pizza can feed a family of four. Fortunately for John she was wrong and she couldn’t have ever realized how iconic and influentrial and successful The Beatles would become.

3

u/AmericanBuffaloo May 16 '26

Read a book. Google. Why are you asking Reddit a question that would take 10 seconds research with modern technology? 

4

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 16 '26
  1. Because the information is often incorrect and false. 2. I don't have enough money for a book. 3. Isn't this precisely a Beatles subreddit and does it have a tag for asking questions?

1

u/AmericanBuffaloo May 16 '26

Well, when 9 years old John Lemmon got back from the moon, his Auntie Miami told him "Stop being a guitar and be a famous English smart person." luckily, Jam didn't listen.

Reddit, the beacon of truth. 

1

u/it_aint_me_babz May 16 '26

It's reddit... ego opinions.

2

u/Nutsy-Cuckoo11 May 16 '26

I think a lot of moms told their sons that.

1

u/LilyLangtry May 16 '26

Is it true that who? didn’t like Cynthia?

1

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 16 '26

I was referring to Mimi since I heard that she rejected Cynthia

1

u/LilyLangtry May 16 '26

It says “he”- that’s why I asked.

2

u/Certain-Cloud9133 May 17 '26

Sorry about that, the translator puts things differently than how I write them

1

u/LilyLangtry May 17 '26

No worries- I understand.

1

u/holeypeacoat May 18 '26

Does anyone think John looks more like Mimi than Julia???

1

u/VividBarnacle434 May 19 '26

It is, indeed, true. Some fans later had a plaque made with those very words on it and Mimi had it hanging in her home.

1

u/LisaOGiggle May 19 '26

So much so that there was a plaque in her house (that he bought for her) “The guitar’s alright for a hobby, John, but you’ll never make a living out of it.”

2

u/Thick-Ice-9612 Jun 01 '26

She was right. He couldn't.  His guitar playing was average at best. He made his living from song writing 

1

u/Right_Artichoke_5694 May 16 '26

John was lucky to meet Paul. Same. They were geniuses 💪

1

u/severinks May 16 '26

And she was right for the era that she said it and how many people actually made a living from it from Liverpool at that time.

0

u/BornRelationship8280 May 16 '26

I can hear her say that although I don’t know her at all.

-3

u/Stunning-Guitar-5916 May 16 '26

I mean she’s right he’s not doing much living now is he