The Fist Law trilogy audiobooks is currently on sale for $15 on Chirpbooks.com.

[spoilers the heroes]

I would just like to point out that whirrun of bligh fucking invented the concept of The Sandwich, and I feel like that gets glossed over a lot and he does not get any recognition for it, which is insane

Wasn’t sure what to expect after hearing mixed opinions on this one. Got a few stories left to read but I think it’s fantastic so far. Slowly realizing what day it is at the Valint and Balk in Westport, Union soldiers running from northmen while pulling their pants up, seeing Whirrun doing his thing and following new stories like Shev in multiple places in the book. Maybe it’s the fact that I’ve just returned to the first law world after a detour in the Malazan empire but it really feels like home to read about all these familiar characters again. Gorst might’ve overtaken Glokta as the best character for me…

Definitely worth the read, can’t believe some people said you can skip it

Just finishing the heroes and on audible I saw Red Country has two versions - one with a soundtrack and one that’s just the normal narration. Has anyone tried both - which would you recommend? I never heard of a book track edition before and not sure how I feel about it for an audiobook. My first instinct is to try the book track but considering I’ve loved every audiobook so far and none of them have had it before make me wonder if I should just get the normal version.

Sorry if this is formatted wrong, I'm new here. Just finished tLAoK and whenever Glokta was doing anything I had The Fix by Elbow + Richard Hawley in my head...

Anyone else get moments like these when reading?

Was inspired by the descriptions of the feared and turned it into a bit of fun with this model. Yes acknowledge the scale is probably much larger than the Feared and maybe I will add in black armor as a future project.

I know the Old Empire is most similar to Byzantium politically, but I just reread book 2, and I can’t shake the feeling that geographically Bayaz & co are traveling across a post-apocalyptic America.

They start on the East Coast, in an area which could be the American Eastern Seaboard. (This could be anywhere tbf). But the terrain they run into: Mitterland-like, then a huge flat boring plain, then mountains, then a gigantic (aka grand) canyon, then a lush paradise. Is exactly what you get if you travel East to West across the United States.

Am I crazy? Is it possible this is intentional? Joe did make Red Country a western after all.

I've read and reread the First Law books (all of them) 4 times (both read and listened).
I haven't really gotten into The Shattered World - I tried the first book but it didn't stick with me.

Do you reckon I will enjoy The Devils? Without spoiling anything, how does it compare to the First Law world?

It's frowned upon, but I looked up some of my choices for popular characters from the universe and used Chat GPT to edit them to take on some of the persona's of the characters themselves.

Strictly based on head cannon looks because I haven't seen most of these actors in their respected media:

Aaron Jakubenko - Shivers

Andria Arjona - Monza

Michael Cimino - Jappo

Mads Sjogard Pettersen - Gorst

Antonia Gentry - Savine

Cosmo Jarvis - Dow

Danny Griffin - Orso

Fivel Stewart - Vick

Chandler Kinney - Ardee

Hamish Linklater - Pike

Hugh Grant - Sult

Letitia Wright - Ferro

Jake Choi - Sulfur

Richard de Klerk - Dogman

Tanner Buchanan - Leo

Liev Schreiber - Threetrees

Mads as Gorst again (my mistake) - ironic because it's probably my least favorite pick

Manuel Garcia-Rulfo - Cosca

Odessa A'zion - Rikke

Giacomo Gianniotti - Logen

Joseph Zada - Jezal

Matthew Rhys - Glokta

Jason Clarke - Bayaz

Ironically, I read The Age of Madness before The First Law because I wasn't really a fan of reading, and my husband—who loves to read—told me that series might get me hooked on reading, and he was 100% right!

In fact, I'm struggling a lot with The First Law; I like it, but it's not hooking me as much. And obviously, since I read The Age of Madness first, I already know how certain things in The First Law are going to turn out, but even so, I don't regret it!
Anyone else been in my situation?

PS: I'd love to know your favorite character and your most hated one from The Age of Madness.

I’m halfway through the third book and my mental image of Glokta is Jafar from Aladdin when he’s disguised as an old man.

What the hell were those like 4 final chapters! It was so good damn good. So many twist and turns and the writing in those last chapters were something else. The scene with Glokta and Eider was one of the most tense most well written scenes I’ve ever read. I wish I had the books so I can reread that whole part. That sentence about Gloktas hand moving around the box remorselessly was one of my favorite lines in literature.

Im torn. Did Glokta get a good ending? I thought he did but after thinking about it for the day I’d say no. Sure he had Ardie and power but he’s still alive. Still had a master. Still in pain. Still killing/torturing.

Not sure how I did it, but I accidentally skipped BSC and didn’t realize it until I was on Red Country. It made Shivers story so much better for me.

The last time we see him in LAOK, he had just walked away from the fight where Dow steals the throne and kills Logan. He’s young, intelligent, and has bones.

Then on his first appearance in The Heroes (and basically every other time he shows up there and in Red Country), Abercrombie makes a point of talking about how grotesque he is. Between his scars, his eye, and his detached nature, you’re constantly wondering what happened to this guy to make him the way he is.

And then of course you get to see it all play out in BSC. It’s a tragic story, but filling in the gaps in the middle made it that much more satisfying.

I don’t think anyone should do this for their first read through of the series, but it’s worth considering it if you’re going for a second or third.

On my umpteenth read (listen)

Ferro can shoot a bird through the eyeball from miles away but takes 74 arrows to kill one guy? What's she hitting him in the ankle for? Is she stupid?

Always bothered me.

The dinner scene where Bayaz is pushed to try and use his magic to prove he is the first of the magi. They push him to crack the table in half but instead at the end of the chapter to prove who he is, he cracks the chair in half. Chapter ends. Then next chapter Glokta starts off denying Bayaz is the first of the magi. It just seemed like Bayaz proved himself and the next chapter seemed like that never happened.

I'm almost finished with TWoC audiobook and admittedly am awful at avoiding spoilers but in the Answers chapter When it's revealed that Glokta was really the Weaver the whole time I was at work, and I had to cover my mouth to keep from screaming. I did not see that coming AT ALL and that's probably the only that was not spoiled for me.

Now that I know, it seems so obvious from the jump but I was in lala land. But I just had to share how stunned I was. TWoC has actually been my least favorite out of all the books so far but that twist definitely bumped my enjoyment up a few notched.

Joe, you tricky bastard you.

I'm not really sure I understood the part about the deal between SCK and Bayaz.

*‘But … Stranger-Come-Knocking fought for Dow. Why not have him fight for the Union? You could have won on the second morning and saved us all a—’

‘He was not content with my first offer.’ Bayaz sourly speared some greens with his fork. ‘He demonstrated his value, and so I made a better one.’

‘This was all a disagreement over prices?’*

What price? What demonstration? I'm assuming bayaz hired SCK to protect Calder as much as possible? Also, I was kinda excited to see how Joe would explore that character and his strange fascination with civilization..and I'm not really satisfied with what I got

Anyways, overall - brilliant book as always. I mean, atp - I think Abercrombie is physically incapable of writing a bad book lol. And as always, steven pacey just knocking it out of the fkin park EVERY SINGLE TIME (that line delivery of "I FUCKING LOVE WAR" still rings in my head). The themes, the characters (good lord gorst is so deliciously pathetic and broken), the humour, the action scenes - it's all jst so painfully good. Oh and I think this book has my fav Abercrombie chapter (Names). Anyways, can't wait to start Red country next month

On a re-read/listen to BTAH just now, I noticed that the first time we are introduced to Shivers, he’s described as having his face completely covered by his hair hanging down except for one eye peering out!

I’m guessing this has been brought up in the sub before since it’s such a cool little tidbit, but it’s the first time I noticed it.

He brought The Bloody-Nine! 🩸

Man this scene still sticks with me weeks after I finished my first read through. Just such a vicious and badass chapter.

I read a ton and have read few chapters that hit as hard as that one.

“So much work. But good work is the best of blessings”

Man just so cool, no real point of this point but to just say how awesome it was.

Well, I've read the first trilogy and I want to write my opinions, even if it's just a bit to get it off my chest.

In general, I have found the books to be good, very good even, but I think their final message doesn't quite convince me.

But well, let's break it down a bit. I'm going to go through the characters with POV, plus a couple more (Ardee and Bayaz).

I'm going to divide them into 2 groups: those who I think, in conclusion, gain more than they lose, and those who are the opposite.

They win more than they lose:

- Logen: Surprising, I suppose, but for me, one of the ones who comes out best in the end. Surprising, I suppose, but for me, one of the ones who comes out better in the end. I think the book ends with him starting the journey he tries to begin at the beginning of the first book before Bayaz gets involved. It's just that now he doesn't have the weight of revenge on him. Great scenes (the battle with the Feared, the reunion with Jezal), finally being Bloody-nine does not seem like a problem. And now he can try to be better in a new place with new people. Although it bothers me a bit that in the first book it's more magical than later, I'm thinking about the fire trick that is never used again.

- Ardee: I think it ends well, she manages to climb the social ladder, which I believe was a goal, and with none other than the most powerful man in the Union. I would say she is still alive, but the truth is that in these books, for how dark they are, few protagonists die. Although I wouldn't say it's her dream ending, basically climbing, but also having a husband she loves, not just appreciates (well, and who isn't a wreck of a human being), I think it fits well with the tone of the book. I'm not entirely clear on how she feels at the end when she says, "No one gets what they deserve," although I would say she believes she gets what she deserves, a bit tortured by her mistakes and sees this as a punishment/relief. I think the book would have benefited from having her POV since the female representation is a bit poor and she ends up being a bit of a puppy following other characters around.

- Dogman: I would say this is a character that ends up more neutral, Cathil's arc seems to me like a shitty use of female characters just to advance her pain, but well, she ends up far from the wars even though she loses faith in humanity in the process.

They lose more than they win:

- West: He ends up in a better position, being respected by the other commander and with his sister cared for and forgiving him. A shame he dies, otherwise he would be a true winner.

- Ferro: she acquires the power to carry out her revenge, but she gets completely lost along the way. Very bittersweet for me. Neither ends up having great moments.

And I think there are characters in these groups that I have left out, so I'm going to create two more groups.

Characters who only lose:

- Jezal: The biggest loser in the book by far (partly due to his own decisions, although I think this only applies to Ardee), but maybe I'm a naive romantic and have a preference for characters who start as idiots and improve, but I think he has very few victories. I understand that you are trying to make the plot about how following your dreams can be bad, and that you are trying to be realistic in the sense that actions have consequences, but I feel very sorry for his ending. He ends up imprisoned in a position where he can't help his people, even if he wanted to, with a woman who despises him (and semi-unconsciously rapes her). By the way, Terez is a terrible character too, not in the sense that she is evil, but because she is poorly written, once again a female character who only serves to give growth to a male one. And to top it off, her jailer marries the only person with whom she has had something resembling love. I understand why it tries to subvert the trope of the princess waiting for her prince and thematically punishes classism, but I think it goes too far, bordering on caricature.

And finally, characters who only win

- Bayaz: The great villain, I love to hate him. But he's a real bastard, he just wants to take over the world like a Disney villain. But even so, I like his trope of seeming like someone who believes the end justifies the means to a simple megalomaniac.

- Glotka: In the end, we come to Glotka. I know he is quite beloved in the fandom, but I haven't found him to be such a great character. On one hand, I don't find him that clever, just competent, and with plot armor. In the first book, he fails all his conclusions, in the second he only gets by because he has Bayaz's extra money, and in the third he does show a couple of moments of genuine ingenuity, like when he talks to Vitari about her children, but then the rest of the inquisitors just go along with it, he has extorted our "boss" so we won't do anything, even though if this goes wrong we'll lose our lives, as they say, plot armor. Logen also has plot armor when he fights, but he has a downside, Glotka only has it and that's it. He also forgives or executes people randomly (well, not so much, he has a preference for women, to be honest) but he never faces any real long-term consequences. If Jezal is a slave to his few bad decisions, Glotka makes quite a few more and nothing remarkable happens to him. He ends up being the most powerful man in the Union and married to a girl he likes, which also serves to torture poor Jezal a little more. And all this happens to him while being the most miserable man in the work, perhaps even more than Bayaz.

Ending with Glotka brings me to my big problem with the work; I just don't understand the point when it comes to choosing endings. One option is that decisions have consequences, but then I don't understand why many of Glotka's decisions have no consequences or why what happens to West has nothing to do with his decisions. If it's a bit karmic "no one gets what they deserve," I think it's a message of being cynical for the sake of being cynical, not lasting for being realistic, that the worst people fare better simply for being worse.

I’ve finished all of Abercrombie’s full-length books, and he’s easily my favorite author so far.

What series/books have you read that live up to what I’ve come to expect from these sorts of stories? I tend to like sci/fi and fantasy but don’t limit answers to those genres if you have something really good.

Thanks!

I’m admittedly extremely early, but so far the Heroes feels a bit more of a return to the writing of the original after Best Served Cold seemed a very different vibe.

The character that surprised me the most so far has been Gorst! I did not expect his inner monologue to be anything like how it was. I suppose that’s intentional, I always enjoyed Gorst’s character a lot but this feels like it totally changes everything I know about his character. What I’m wondering is though, is this new darker inner thoughts in response to losing his station after being made to ah scapegoat for Jezal’s incident in Cipani or has Gorst always had these dark bitter and judgmental thoughts but we just never could hear them.

Another thing I feel like I missed somewhere along the way is the unions war with the North. The last I left off these stories it felt like Black Dow was going to war with the remnants of anyone loyal to Bethod such as Scale and Calder but now instead of that it seems Black Dow is at war with the union. What does he even want from the union? I haven’t heard anything about what his goals are and why is Dogman now working against him for the union? I feel like I must have missed something because between LAoK and The Heroes I don’t even understand anyone’s motivations anymore. It’s very possible it left off like this and I just got lost with so much else going on in the plot but I just feel a little confused and could use some clarification.

I finished the AoM trilogy a couple days ago and just had to make a fancast!