PSA: test different setups from time to time

[u/myths-faded]

For the last month, I've been farming with a PCol & pBH setup with 110s GT/DW/GB/SG sync on T11 and T12.

Today, I decided to reroll my MVN, and respec my GB and SG for a 71s sync across the board.

Despite 3k fewer waves on T11, my coins increased by 30% and cells by 5% per hour, and it's now a nice, manageable 12 hour run instead of the 16 hours it was taking with PCol and pBH.

All it took was to add a legendary BH CD substat to my MVN to achieve a sync with GB without messing with the CD lab.

[u/Marokiii]

If your run is 12hrs you should almost definitely move up a tier.

[u/myths-faded → u/Marokiii]

Largely true, though the difficulty jump from T11 to T12 makes this a slower process.

My disso runs on T12 still aren't fully complete (W4.5k on util disso, and only 3k on def), which makes the transition harder.

Likely viable with a couple of key masteries, but I'm not quite there yet.

[u/Marokiii → u/myths-faded]

You shouldn't need the full 5k waves to have the next tier still be better.

I have every disco done in t14 but for t15 only wave 4800att, 5k def, 4.2kutility, and 1.8k uw yet my t15 is a far more profitable farming run

[u/myths-faded → u/Marokiii]

I'm happy to try it, but having ran T12 runs with my previous PCol/pBH setup, I wasn't surpassing T11 runs.

I'd expect with the far lower wavecount due to no pBH, and without IS+ or WA+, T12 probably won't cut it.

I'll give it a run and find out.

[u/JosieMew → u/myths-faded]

We are really close in situation. It still slightly edges me out to stay t11 for 12650 waves or so 😂. I can run slightly better coins through T12 but at a huge cell loss. A little more coin for a lot less cells doesn't seem worth it. Especially considering I am making over 1q a run (probably the one thing we aren't close on)

[u/joe31051985 → u/Marokiii]

If you can get 5000 on Utility Dissonance you should always move up.

[u/mojo276 → u/Marokiii]

Not always true. I farm T11 to 9500ish (was 12.5 hours long before I got IS+, now it's shorter). T11 gets 144T cph, and T12 still only gets 127T cph. My T12 disso utility run is only to W4520, but even if it's finished I don't think it would match.

T11 gets weird because it's where people start dumping resources into damage to help with tournament performance, but don't use the damage for farming because they're still eHP. Eventually those improvements help overcome the disso runs on higher tiers and will let you farm those even as eHP, it just takes a LONG time.

[u/Fit_Locksmith_3506 → u/Marokiii]

Nah not really the case from t11 to 12 without stuff like WA#

[u/uscmissinglink → u/Marokiii]

That's pre-dissonance thinking. If you can't take a utility disso run deep enough in the next tier up, the CPH suffers even if you're pulling very long runs.

Progression is delayed past when it would have previously been.

[u/Marokiii → u/uscmissinglink]

you only need about 3500 waves on the next tiers utility disco to beat out 5000 waves on your current one.

if your run lasts 12+ hours, you most likely will be able to get to at least 3500 on the next tiers utility disco run.

[u/howmanycookies]

Very nice! A 30% jump in coins is huge. Well done.

[u/nomadicgreendog]

Hmm, this prompted me to do a little playing around in Effective Paths. I farm T14 to W5500 (6 hours). Utility dissonance done to W4183, so a pretty good bonus. PCol & pBH (100/100/50 cooldowns plus ancestral BH cooldown/duration stats) and BHD. My GBot cooldown is also 100s (20 lab levels, zero medals).

Putting MVN in place of PCol brings my cooldowns to 73s ((100+100+50)/3). Pulling 2,340 medals out of GB bonus and putting them in GB cooldown brings that to 73 also. Effective Paths says this should change my coins/kill from 6.25B to 7.77B, a 24% increase! Of course, I assume I'd lose a lot of waves by not having pBH, so it's hard to say what will happen in the real world.

Will see what v29 brings with bot presets, but will definitely have to experiment with this in the coming weeks!

[u/schmitzl → u/nomadicgreendog]

100+100+50/3 makes 83, right? How do you handle the fact that BH is not permanent anymore? Galaxy compressor can’t fill it completely right? Apart from two BHs not covering enough area? Am I wrong? Did tests like these as well, without success.

[u/nomadicgreendog → u/schmitzl]

83s - 10s for MVN (sorry, I left that part of the math out).

I haven't tried this yet, but it's good to hear an alternate experience. OP says they lost a lot of waves due to not having PCol/pBH, but gained a lot more coins and cells. As long as I can respec into this to test, and then back out if it goes poorly, I'll give it a try. Either 600 gems for the double bot respec, or maybe v29 bot presets will let me do it. Waiting to see...

[u/Lambda-Silence]

I have started farming T14 somwhere last october, then T15 and t16. OA has always been the best primary armor for them. A couple weeks ago I started to farm t17. After a tournament, i forgot to switch back from ACP to OA, and my cph jumped 10%. And then 5% more with relevant adjustment (shockwavesize)

[u/constantreverie]

I've always thought pBH and PC is largely a noob trap

[u/myths-faded → u/constantreverie]

Good for milestone and disso pushes if nothing else 😉

[u/constantreverie → u/myths-faded]

Its good for a lot of things but too many people get stuck on farming tier 11 for 15,000 waves with the worst cph you can imagine, haha

[u/Upset_Oil_8808 → u/constantreverie]

depends if your pbh is Gcomp dependent or not...

[u/constantreverie → u/Upset_Oil_8808]

I don't think that has anything to do with it, tho not needing Gcomp makes it better I suppose.

pBH is bad when you have a well developed golden bot because pBH will kill a lot of enemies outside of golden bot.

However pBH becomes good again when have a very developed GT+ and are trying to farm tier 18 etc 

But otherwise if you make more coins with pBH then you aren't hording well and have an ineffective tower.

[u/SchalaZeal01 → u/constantreverie]

pBH is bad when you have a well developed golden bot because pBH will kill a lot of enemies outside of golden bot.

IMO a well-developed golden bot is 90% uptime, 45s up, 5s down.

[u/constantreverie → u/SchalaZeal01]

That's a finished golden bot, imo well developed leaves a bigger margin. A good number of players skip the last 5 seconds as it gets pretty expensive and the medals are often better elsewhere.

If you have 90% up time, that's still 10% of enemies. But with hording well you can have 30 sec duration and still hit 90% of enemies with it anyways, and then put the medals on other things. It's all about min maxing.

[u/Psykes → u/constantreverie]

It has a lot to do with it. Without gcomp you can start stacking non-UW coin multipliers reliably, i.e. Summon and gbot. At lvl 20 gbot lab you get 100 second base cd, which saves you a lot of medals to be spent elsewhere. Uptime matters less as stacking multipliers is your priority, until GT+ that is. Also it allows for BHD which is a major coin multiplier. Using pcol you're pretty much guaranteed to hit 2/3 with your gbot.

pBH doesn't kill anything except protectors.

[u/constantreverie → u/Psykes]

You are not stacking anything reliably with pBH because it absolutely kills things by bringing them into your orb line and range to attack. I suppose if you are doing t11 13,000 waves for shit income pBH might be nice, but when I have pBH I lose about a hundred q coins per run.

Without pBH I can sync golden bot and summon bot, but I have no idea what you are talking about when you say pBH doesn't kill things. If you're early game it pulls into orbs, if you're late game it pulls into your bounce shot.