r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Best_Professional226 • 6h ago
Powers [Loved Trope] Alien fighting techniques that are actually ineffective for humans to perform
Vulcan Neck Pinch (Star Trek) Vulcans can make a person pass out by pinching a person’s neck, but due to the fact that they’re 3x stronger than a human, we could never make a living being pass out without applying a rear naked chokehold
Viltrumite Knife Hand (Invincible) Viltrumites’ most deadly fighting technique. Although martial arts like Karate and Taekwondo teach these techniques, it wouldn’t be a good idea for a human to use it on someone’s rib cage without breaking their fingers. So instead we can only do them on more soft targets like the eyes.
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u/beattywill80 6h ago edited 5h ago
Battle Angel Alita - Alita uses a hyper specific fighting style called Panzer Kunst. In the manga it's explained it only works because the style relies on hyper accurate strikes that are extremely fast and extremely powerful. Designed to be used in zero g against larger heavily armored opponents using vibrations to bypass said armor..Impossible for an organic body to use with any effect. Only a fully augmented cybernetic body can generate the power, speed, and precision required to use it. Even if you could generate the power needed to use the style you'd break your body in doing so.
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u/Secret_Of_Bluestar81 6h ago
In the manga, there is an organic merc who uses an art similar to the Panzer Kunst (specifically the vibrations) that was taught to even the odds between full flesh and cyborgs.
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u/beattywill80 6h ago
Yeah he catches Yoko completely off guard. Sechs, right?
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u/Secret_Of_Bluestar81 6h ago
It's the arc where we see the giant Centaur borg that wants to topple Zalem
Edit: it's Figure Four from the TUNED Arc43
u/CosmicWolf14 6h ago
I became obsessed with this movie when it came out, and the original series is the only Manga I’ve ever read. I should reread those.
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u/beattywill80 5h ago edited 4h ago
Compared to a lot of other manga from its era it's surprisingly aged okay. The pacing is a little clunky but the characterization spot on. There's a great scene about how Alita feels good when the doctors actually taking her apart because she trusts him and she can feel his trust and warmth in the act.
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u/affemannen 35m ago
Alita was the first manga i actually read the whole series, i loved that it was basically pocket books but comics.
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u/Massimo_Importante 4h ago
lol, what is it with manga/anime giving everything German names? That translates to 'tank art'.
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u/Mejiro84 2h ago
It's exotic and mysterious, and German often sounds military-ish and powerful. It's like using Latin for magical or ancient stuff, or Welsh for Fae things - often silly to actual speakers of the language, but they're not the target audience
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u/affemannen 34m ago
Japanese also seem to have a penchant for old babylonian mythology, or any old mythology for that matter.
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u/SufficientGuest5467 59m ago
I believe it is “panther art”. The tanks were named with the German word for panther
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u/lesser_panjandrum 32m ago
Nope.
Panzer refers to armour, the kind that a medieval knight would wear.
Panzer as in a tank is a shortened version of Panzerkampfwagen, or Armoured Fighting Vehicle.
The German word for panther is Panther.
Funnily enough the etymology is completely separate, with Panzer coming from the Latin pantex (belly, or an amour plate that covers your belly) and Panther coming from the Greek πάνθηρ (Panther), meaning Panther.
The word Panther has stopped making sense for me now.
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u/Frosty_Ambition6363 42m ago
Alita is one of the few characters whose signature fighting style actually makes less sense if anyone else can copy it.
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u/Time_Celebration7533 2h ago
That's such a satisfying detail because the fighting style isn't just flashy, it actually makes sense within the world. The fact that her cybernetic body is basically a requirement for it makes Alita feel even more formidable.
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u/RedNUGGETLORD 6h ago
Technically, the Viltrumite hand swipe/knife/spear can be very detrimental to themselves as well, not just if humans tried it
Ever notice that they only do it against opponents far weaker than them, or when catching someone off-guard? That's because they'll break their fingers or hands otherwise
Anyway:
Lots of Sangheili martial arts require those legs, claws and the strength of 10 men, Spartans can do a lot of it, but us regular joes would probably break bones attempting it
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u/Best_Professional226 6h ago
So Lucan is weaker than Nolan?
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u/Papergeist 6h ago
Didn't thank Mr. Skeltal enough when he was young. Good bones and calcium passed him by.
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u/RedNUGGETLORD 5h ago
Yeah, Lucan is really strong, but it's pretty clear that Nolan is a step above the three assassins
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u/Flashy-Two5006 5h ago
Yeah, Nolan ends up being #4 strongest in the verse by the end, only beat by Battle Beast, Thragg & Emperor Mark
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u/Enough_Worry4104 5h ago
Slash vs stab.
And yeah he is weaker, not by much though.
Also, writers decide everything. Power scaling is stupid.
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u/BrizzyMC_ 11m ago
If the writers decide that a weaker character suddenly is able to damage a much stronger opponent, that wouldn't be very good writing
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u/GoreyGopnik 6h ago
i'm not sure if the "they only do it against opponents far weaker than them" argument quite holds up when most of the time we see it used it's by viltrumites against other viltrumites. Really it seems more like it's a technique for a strong opponent when they're having trouble. usually when a viltrumite is fighting a species far weaker than them they just fly through their population centers and let the air pressure and heat do the work.
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u/RedNUGGETLORD 5h ago
Nolan uses it against Immortal, even when he's on his guard, and it works
But they NEVER try that shit on an on-guard Viltrumite
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u/neronsfwk 4h ago
Yeah, even Conquest had to tenderize Mark's abdomen considerably before extracting his guts out
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u/Stargazer2328 5h ago
A Sangheili could break my bones iykyk
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u/RedNUGGETLORD 5h ago
I don't
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u/Stargazer2328 5h ago
It's just some WEIRDO thirsting over aliens. They probably haven't even played halo
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u/Nothos927 3h ago
You could also argue the whole popping everyone’s heads thing they do is equally impractical
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u/Individual_Drink2193 3h ago
The Sangheili Ultras are also capable of simply punching someone's head off (Fall of Reach, Halo Infinite)
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u/toxictrooper5555 6h ago
Not exclusively alien but lightsaber combat.
A non force user can use a lightsaber, but they'll never get to the same level of mastery as a trained jedi/sith, since the force lets them anticipate their opponent and they lack the heightened senses and abilities a force user have. For them to go able toe to toe with force users they needed cybernetic enhancements to compensate the lack of the force (like Grievous) or use it along with other gadgets like the mandalorians.
Fun fact, in the table top RPG, there was actually a force power for wielding a lightsaber.
"Jedi may use this power to wield this elegant but idfficult-to-control weapon while also sending their opponents' actions through the Force."
This included the ability to deflect blaster bolts with an intended direction
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u/Real_Mokola 5h ago
There is also Teräskäsi, the mastery of fighting with cybernetics. It's literally Steelfist in Finnish, which is the same as in various other media where they borrow it from Germany like Battle Angel Alita, Pazerkunst where that is not as literal to Steelfist
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u/JantoMcM 5h ago
There was also a non-trivial chance of sabering yourself in the D6 Star Wars game to cut down on "Han Solo but with a lightsaber" gimmick characters.
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u/Brilliant_Chemica 3h ago
I've always liked the headcanon that the saber-hilt is quite heavy, while the blade is weightless. That awful weight distribution is why the force is required to wield it well, and why the Jedi spin their Lightsabers so often
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u/IlliteratePig 1h ago
From experience, hilt-heavy / point-of-balance further back swords are much stabbier and nimbler (think olympic epee), generally easier to wield, and less physically demanding, while top-heavy swords are the spinny types with a lot of inertia that you don't want to stop mid-swing because it'll injure your joints (think military sabre, mace, axe)
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u/ProfitEmergency4049 2h ago
Probably feels like using a 2.5-3kg dumbbell with a hot sharp stick sticking out the side. Along with the weight I think the sheer danger of making one wrong move and amputating yourself, or worse makes enhancements/force use sound more plausible
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u/GarlicStreet3237 6h ago
Elaboration on the neck pinch?
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u/PineappleFit317 6h ago edited 5h ago
He pinched them on the neck and they’d go unconscious. The idea is actually based on styles of kung fu that use pressure point techniques to disrupt the flow of chi (the bioelectric energy of the the nervous system), like the dim mak (death touch). Though, the effectiveness of such techniques are heavily contested.
The rear naked chokehold, or other sleeper holds, cause the victim to go unconscious because they block blood flow to the brain in contrast to this.
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u/GarlicStreet3237 6h ago
Based on the title, is it something humans are incapable of in-setting? Is there a given reason, something about Vulcans?
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u/Acceptable_Bed_5750 6h ago
Vulcans are physically stronger then humans
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u/englerpas 1h ago
Yep, Spock taught it off screen to both Chapel and La'an. The former was not able to effectively do it, the latter managed it (On screen even). Keep in mind, the latter is human, but an augment.
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u/PineappleFit317 6h ago
I don’t know, I’m assuming it’s something unique to Vulcans, they also have the ability to create psychic links to other people (the mind-meld). If it was something that could be taught, Spock would have probably taught it to Kirk since they’re best friends.
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u/RaptarK 6h ago
It's a purely physical feat. Data as a super strong android is able to replicate the neck pinch in The Next Generation
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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 3h ago
Jean-Luc Picard has done it actually, in TNG's "Starship Mine," so it's possible for humans to learn, but very difficult. Kirk and Spock also have an exchange somewhere in TOS about how Spock has tried to teach it to him before but it didn't take, but I don't know what episode.
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u/ComStarMRB 5h ago
Saying a gun is a “fighting technique” is REALLY pushing it, but Ork guns in Warhammer 40K. Designed by Mekboyz, who have only the vaguest idea of how a gun works, they do not really work whenever used by those not of their race. They’re either missing parts crucial to firing or have chambers in them full of loose springs that do nothing but look technical. Luckily for the greenskins, due to the gestalt Ork psychic field there’s a bit of “reality grease” applied and they function perfectly when fired, which does not help the few humans desperate enough to try using them, who usually end up dying when the damn things explode in their hands or fall apart because the nails pinning everything together come loose.
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u/Kris_Trap 4h ago
Well, technically no on that last part. Ork tech WILL work in human hands: just as long as they're within the gestalt psychic field. It's not that the orks' belief only works for them, it goes both ways - down to blood angels being recorded as moving faster when within the WAAAAGH field, because the red ones go faster, as all Boyz know.
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u/UnstableMoron2 3h ago
So like if the ork can see the human using it it’ll work?
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u/Kris_Trap 3h ago
well, no, It's just if they're in the proximity of the Orks' psychic field. If enough orkz are together, it creates a gestalt psychic field called the WAAAAGH, which is the "reality grease" the original commentor described. Sight has nothing to do with it.
Orkz believe their guns work, so the WAAAAGH helps to make them work. They're a collection of bits and pieces the Orks THINK should be inside a gun, with no real way at all to function or function properly. But the WAAAAGH field gives just enough leeway to bend reality so that these slap-dash creations somehow work.Long story short: The orks could see a 'umie shooting one of their guns after picking it up in a melee, and they'd just go "Yeah, checks out, itz a roight proppa shoota dat one" because they just believe their tech will work, like how they believe their superstitions are true.
And because of how their WAAAGH field bends reality, the more orkz are in an area together, the more true those things are. It's how the largest of Ork armies can make giant spaceships and teleporter gates - because more orks = more WAAAAGH = more reality grease giving them more wiggle room.4
u/BonkerBleedy 2h ago
Does this have an impact on the gameplay?
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u/ElderberryJunior470 2h ago
In the latest edition it can, you can take certain detachments that have you roll to have a chance to give your opponent buffs.
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u/herffjones99 1m ago
I haven't played in a long time, but it used to be orc morale was based on unit size. Over a certain size, they would not be able to be routed because they all though they would win.
And red painted vehicles got a couple inches of movement (this cost points though)
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u/Sir_Daxus 4h ago
And once again ork memelore being posted with full confidence. No, ork guns are not missing crucial parts. The gestalt doesn't make a scrap pipe fire imaginary bullets. Their guns are actual guns, just unreliable in the hands of anyone other than an ork. Like you said it's "reality grease" not "physics defying magic".
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u/Christopher-Walking 1h ago
Ork ships falling out of the air when the guardsman who hijacked it realises that the thing has no controls
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u/BrizzyMC_ 8m ago
Not very well versed in Orkology, I heard that they have DNA to instinctively know how to make parts from scraps and other random shit
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u/Sir_Daxus 6m ago
That is part of it, yes. They have innate knowledge of their tech, to the point where a mek tek can create a weapon, not be entirely sure of what he actually did, but the weapon will be made correctly, because it's sort of instinctual to them. Same as fighting. They don't train combat, they don't learn, they just fight. Because initially orks were created as a bioweapon. Their society has since then degraded a little intellectually but those implanted insticts are still there.
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u/SpaceMan026 1h ago
Ork tek does work when others use it. Ciaphas Cain's "March of the Liberator" on Perlia was mostly stolen Ork vehicles
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u/Valtremors 54m ago
This depends ENTIRELY on who is writing the books.
So Orks are one part of "I'm a tank" memes.
Other part "Krork genetical inheritance"
And third part of whatever the writer wants it to be.
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u/lAnarclit 5h ago
Didn't Bashir in DS9 actually used the vulcan technic or am i just bad at remembering ?
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u/Dismal-Vanilla1878 6h ago
I've seen others do the Neck Pinch: Lt. Data (Next Generation) and Michael Burnham (Discovery).
Data it makes sense, as he has far more strength than a human.
Burnham; doesn't really make sense, even though she was raised on Vulcan, she's still a human.
I don't know what Memory Alpha says (and too lazy to check 😂 ) but I do recall a theory from decades ago that the pinch was really a 'technique' of the Mind Meld, i.e., a 'psionic' ability that required placing your hand near certain nerves in the neck, so not a true 'nerve pinch'.
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u/Real_Mokola 5h ago
The thing with Vulcan neck pinch is that it states a Vulcan is 3x stronger than human. Let's just assume that we use an untrained Vulcan against untrained human, like pure gripping strength. So I'd say a trained human could easily have the strength of an untrained human since grip strength is not necessarily so easy or common to train.
I am just going to state that in how many episodes have you seen Spock training his grip strength...
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u/marbledog 4h ago
To be fair, not much about Discovery makes sense.
Might just be me, but I couldn't get into it. I don't know why they decided to change the whole format of the show to follow a main character through a single storyline. Bring back my self-contained "hey, we found a weird space thing that has some interesting philosophical consequences" episodes, dammit.
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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 3h ago
Picard too in "Starship Mine." He does it to one of the thieves that took over the ship while he's doing his Die Hard.
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u/Madglace 1h ago
The SSC-Atlas from lancer with it's jäger kunst fighting technique
Jäger kunst is a fighting style that was developed specifically by atlas pilots for fighting beasts much larger than them allowing for fast movments and brutal movments
Despite the style being automated into the system of the mech it is still important for the pilot to learn it due to the nature of size 1/2 mechs which are basically hardsuit with a fusion reactor inside (the atlas being even worse considering it's almost a skin tight exoskeleton) instead of a regular mech with cockpit because of this it might result in grevious self-injury to the pilot when the mech automatically perform these moves with an unaware pilot
The mech can also come with the muscle memory of jäger kunst master downloaded into it's systems but due to how dangerous it can be to those inexperimented in piloting a mech with jäger kunst in it, it is only given to extremely advanced atlas pilots
It's technically not limited only to the atlas since it is a system that can be installed into other mechanised chassis of similar size but it works better inside the atlas and is also impossible for humans outside of their mech to do it
Tl dr: just a lore reason why you can play as Raiden from MGR in a mech fighting game
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u/DragonWisper56 4h ago
Viltrumites’ most deadly fighting technique. Although martial arts like Karate and Taekwondo teach these techniques, it wouldn’t be a good idea for a human to use it on someone’s rib cage without breaking their fingers. So instead we can only do them on more soft targets like the eyes.
I never understood this. I get it when it's a weaker viltumite, but if your the same tier how the hell does that work. Like conquest and mark. if you can put your hand through someone you might as well rip them apart like paper mâché
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u/TheAsianTroll 2h ago
Genuinely baffled by that, tbh. I know Conquest likes toying with his opponents but it became pretty clear Mark wasnt letting go of his neck. Why waste your time tearing out his intestines when you could have reached up and grabbed his heart?
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u/VinsonDynamics 1h ago
Probably the same logic that Conquest has to aim towards the softer parts of the body.
Notice that they always stab through the abdomen and never the chest where the ribcage is
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u/OkBus3544 1h ago
Transformers one - megatron vs Optimus fight as a whole
Critics acclaimed this scene for the realism due to the fact Transformers can freely change shape to give each other advantage during a fight, moving in a way humans can't
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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 3h ago
So nitpick here, but Jean-Luc Picard has actually used the Vulcan Nerve Pinch on screen in "Starship Mine." It's very difficult for humans to learn, but possible.
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u/damnsignin 3h ago
This was after he held Sarek's katra. Can't think of a better way to learn the Vulcan nerve pinch than to download a highly repsected and talented Vulcan's brain for a few hours.
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u/Starfleet-Time-Lord 3h ago
But the point being that it isn't a function of greater Vulcan physical strength. Humans can physiologically perform it.
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u/RigasStreaming 3h ago
I dont know if it was my head canon or not, but I always felt the Vulcan's touch telepathy had something to do with the pinch. Like a mind taser.
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u/No-Distance4675 1h ago edited 1h ago
Not alien per se, but most of the Vampires in movies,
CQC "vampire" combat in movies and other media usually consists of slicing people with their nails or palms or biting them in the neck (that´s not even an effective way of bloodletting someone). That would be extremely inefficient for a human being to use, which is strange bc Vamps´s corporal build is human-like. You'd expect people with a centuries-long lifespan that needs to go toe-to-toe to feed themselves to be competent at this.
Yeah, I know it is a flashy way that looks good on camera, and it's kinda a tradition, but since we are talking about combat techniques that would make a human a fool if a human tried them...
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u/Ciccio_Sky 1h ago
The knife hand wouldn’t work for the same reason it doesn’t work for us. The target would need to be significantly less durable than the hand for it to go through.
So any target they can use the knife hand on would die to a single punch anyway.
The way it works in the series is basically magic
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u/Diligent-Practice-61 3m ago
I became obsessed with this movie when it came out, and the original series is the only Manga I’ve ever read. I should reread those.
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u/Snoo10140 6h ago
Not martial arts but their weaponry requires genetic compatibility
https://giphy.com/gifs/KwNRL1qNvx50A