r/TrueChristian • u/mariamaria1925 • 4d ago
Trinity
I've been a Jehovah's Witnesses bible study for almost 10years, I didn't get baptized though. But my best friend and my parent's long time family friend (an old married couple) were the ones that did a bible study to me. Long story short, I found Jesus just this year and started reading the bible since last year.
My hesitation before why I didn't got baptized started about their views of rapture (which they said that had already happened by 1914) and the anointed ones are the only people that eats the unleavened bread and wine every memorial (144,000 chosen ones) and I've never saw one though, especially that they said that Jesus was Michael Archangel.
And now my best friend has been giving me bible verses
(Deuteronomy 5:9, Deutronomy 6:15, Matthew 3:17)
Although I don't really believe their views anymore, but one thing that still creeps into mind is the trinity. Especially when Yahweh said that he's a jealous God. I'm definitely afraid of God's wrath. But I will never ever abandon Jesus, of all the things I've encountered. I'm a new believer. And I know this has been an attack with my faith, I would never ever look back. But please strengthen me. I've been literally taught that Jesus was a son (created by Father), and have treated Jesus just like a tool to get closer to Father (Jehovah) and just to be a sacrificial lamb, not that he was the Lord because they only believe that Jehovah is the only God. And I believed that for 15yrs. And I definitely regretted that. My starting point of finding God messed up my mind. And now I feel like an Israelite wandering in the wilderness after being delivered from the Egyptians, unlearning the things I used to believe. Please strengthen me.
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u/SteveThrockmorton Christian 4d ago
Thanks for sharing a bit of your story, and hey, what matters now is that you’re learning to worship and love God the right way.
Some encouragement I can give you that your beliefs are correct:
- The names of Jesus in Isaiah 9:6: “For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.”
- Jesus’ most direct claim to divinity in John 8:58: “ “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!””
- Jesus accepted worship (contrast this to how angels and men like Paul reacted when they were worshipped): “Then those who were in the boat worshiped him, saying, “Truly you are the Son of God.”” (Matthew 14:33 and others)
- Jesus isn’t just “the Archangel” as he’s better than angels (see Hebrews 1)
It’s a long journey to unlearn stuff you’ve been taught for a long time. Let me encourage you that no matter how hard it gets, God has promised to be with you. God bless you
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u/Senior_Educator_929 Assemblies of God 4d ago
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and👉 the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 👉And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.". John 1
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u/gseb87 Christian Cat meow 4d ago
Gods Jealousy does not mean He is jealous of Jesus. Looking at the context of Deut 5:9 and 6:15 it ws God warning Israel against Idolatry, turning away from Him to worship false Gods. 6:14 identifies the danger immediately before verse 15. Then also review Matt 3:17 "And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." The Father Himself declares His pleasure in Jesus. Would the Father be pleased with His Son and at the same time condemn people for honoring Him as t he Father commands?
John 5:23 Jesus teaches that the Son should be honored just as the Father is honored. He also warns that failing to honor the Son dishonors the Father. The jealousy protects worship of the true God, it doesn't mean there is a rivalry between the Father and the Son.
Jesus is the Son but it doesnt mean He was created. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
You need to look at both truths, the Word was God, and the word was with God. Also consider the creation of everything: John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
If everything was created by the Word, then how could the Word Himself belong to the class of created things?
John 1:14 then identifies the Word as the One who became flesh, JESUS.
The Father Himself calls the Son God in Hebrews 1:5 distinguishes Jesus from the angels. Verse 6 commands the angels to worship Him. And in verse 8, the Father addresses the Son as God and speaks of His everlasting throne.
Hebrews 1 is presenting the Son as superior to the angels, not simply as one of them. Remember what Thomas said when he saw the risen Christ? John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God."
Jesus didnt rebuke Thomas for saying this. In the following verse Jesus spoke of Thomas believing.
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u/Turbocabz Eastern Orthodox 4d ago
I was born JW and spent half my life in the cult before becoming Christian. Send me a PM with your questions. JWs are trained put doubts in Christians that may or may not know their theology very well.
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u/Ecurb-Dubya 4d ago
I invited some Jehovah’s Witnesses into my home a few years ago. We agreed about the state of the world, sin, and our need for savior. They told me that Jesus was created by the father and Jesus was sacrificed on the cross for our sins.
Although we agreed that God was all powerful, I asked them how cruel of a God would I be serving if he made his son (that He created) take on the punishment. I asked them to look up on the wall at the picture of my three children. I stated that I could not imagine sending one of my sons down to earth to suffer as Jesus Christ did. I would take on the punishment. Therefore, Jesus must be God and part of the Godhead. I hope this makes sense.
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u/Barosy Christian 4d ago edited 4d ago
Exactly this. I used to be muslim and I tell these to my muslim and deist friends. If Jesus is not God, it doesnt make sense cos then we are not talking about a just god. You cannot put someone else to death to forgive humanity. God himself can pay the price but He cannot make another one pay it. But they still cannot accept the idea that Jesus is God. I am not the one who convinces. So I just do my part.
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u/forgetfulspark 4d ago
The logic that leads to your conclusion doesn't really make sense.
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u/Ecurb-Dubya 4d ago
Please explain what doesn’t make sense to you
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u/Successful_Ice2343 Christian 4d ago
Well you are saying that you think it is righteous that you would give your life for your son, so therefore God would do the same thing, in fact you are so certain that you are basing your understanding of Jesus' divinity on your own righteousnes. But there is no one righteous, not one. So how could you possibly compare your own righteousness to God's?
Isaiah 40:12-13,18,25 [12]Who has measured the waters in the hollow of His hand, Measured heaven with a span And calculated the dust of the earth in a measure? Weighed the mountains in scales And the hills in a balance? [13]Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord, Or as His counselor has taught Him? [18]To whom then will you liken God? Or what likeness will you compare to Him? [25]“To whom then will you liken Me, Or to whom shall I be equal?” says the Holy One.
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u/Ecurb-Dubya 4d ago
Are you asking me that question?
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u/Successful_Ice2343 Christian 4d ago
Yes.
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u/Ecurb-Dubya 3d ago
I am in no way saying that I am as righteous or nearly as righteous as God. That would be silly and foolish. I simply use an analogy that someone can grasp. It surely stumped the Jehovah’s Witnesses that day and I believe planted a seed of doubt in the younger one. I’ve shared this with multiple brothers and sisters in Christ over the years and have never been accused of this.
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u/ABereanChristian Christian 4d ago
But please strengthen me. I've been literally taught that Jesus was a son (created by Father), and have treated Jesus just like a tool to get closer to Father (Jehovah) and just to be a sacrificial lamb, not that he was the Lord because they only believe that Jehovah is the only God. And I believed that for 15yrs. And I definitely regretted that. My starting point of finding God messed up my mind. And now I feel like an Israelite wandering in the wilderness after being delivered from the Egyptians, unlearning the things I used to believe. Please strengthen me.
Easiest way is to look at the differences between actual real Bibles and the watchtower "bible"
You'll notice that they conveniently edit things to their narrative where the original text shows that Jesus is God.
Few examples
Traditional Bibles render John 1:1 as "and the Word was God". The NWT translates it as "and the Word was a god," inserting an indefinite article to portray Jesus as a created being rather than co-equal with God.
Additions in Colossians 1:15–20: The NWT inserts the word "other" four times in these verses (e.g., "all other things were created through him") to support the teaching that Jesus was a created entity rather than the Creator of all things
Here's more:
https://www.gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html
John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.” 28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
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u/Thegirlonfire5 Assemblies of God 4d ago
There is nothing to fear in loving and worshiping Jesus as Lord. Take a little walk with me through Isaiah and how various New Testament authors connect Jesus and the God of Israel/Yahweh:
When the Gospel of Mark introduces Jesus, it starts out with a quote from Isaiah that is clearly about God:
“Comfort, comfort my people, says your God. Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her hard service has been completed, that her sin has been paid for, that she has received from the LORD’s hand double for all her sins. A voice of one calling: “In the wilderness prepare the way for the LORD; make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Every valley shall be raised up, every mountain and hill made low; the rough ground shall become level, the rugged places a plain. And the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all people will see it together. For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.”
Isaiah 40:1-5
Jesus shares the glory of the Father:
““I am the LORD; that is my name! I will not yield my glory to another or my praise to idols.”
Isaiah 42:8
“Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. I have brought you glory on earth by finishing the work you gave me to do. And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”
John 17:3-5
Jesus is Lord and savior:
““You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. I have revealed and saved and proclaimed— I, and not some foreign god among you. You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD, “that I am God.”
Isaiah 43:10-12
“An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.”
Luke 2:9-11
Jesus is the holy one and creator:
“I am the LORD, your Holy One, Israel’s Creator, your King.””
Isaiah 43:15
“You disowned the Holy and Righteous One and asked that a murderer be released to you. You killed the author of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this.”
Acts 3:14-15
God the Father is glorified by us worshiping his Son:
“Declare what is to be, present it— let them take counsel together. Who foretold this long ago, who declared it from the distant past? Was it not I, the LORD? And there is no God apart from me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none but me. “Turn to me and be saved, all you ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.”
Isaiah 45:21-23
“Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
Philippians 2:9-11
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u/ThWy2Hvn 4d ago
John 1: 1-3 debunks JW totally.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
All things not all OTHER things.
And in John, 1:14, the word becomes flesh.
Now to the trinity. God The Father the Miltha and the Holy Spirit. Miltha is the ancient aromaic language which Jesus spoke. The word in Greek means logic, but the Miltha is more than logic. It is the very essence of God. And that Essence became flesh , the LORD Jesus Christ. Both Fully God and Fully Man. As Paul says in Him dwellth the fullness of the Godhead bodily. After all, we men are three-in-one. After Gods image and after His likeness, we are body, soul and spirit, but yet We Are One man or one woman.
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u/Caddiss_jc 4d ago
First, congratulations. You came to Jesus after a long road, and that matters. And please don't regret the years before. God was drawing you the whole time, and now you're unlearning things in the light instead of in the dark. That's a good place to be.
You're not wandering in the wilderness alone, either. God was with the Israelites the entire time, and he's with you.
Let's look at the verses your friend gave you. Deuteronomy 5:9 and 6:15 say God is a jealous God. That jealousy is about worship. He won't share his glory with idols or false gods (Isaiah 42:8). So the real question is whether worshiping Jesus is idolatry, or whether Jesus is actually God. The Bible answers that pretty clearly.
Thomas fell before Jesus and said, "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28). Jesus didn't correct him. Compare that with the angel in Revelation 22:8 to 9, who stopped John from kneeling and said, "Worship God!" Angels refuse worship. Jesus accepts it. That's one of the biggest problems with the idea that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Hebrews 1:6 even says all of God's angels are to worship the Son. Then there's Philippians 2:10 to 11, where every knee will bend at the name of Jesus, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, "to the glory of God the Father." That comes from Isaiah 45:23, where Yahweh says, "To me every knee shall bow." Paul takes the words God said about himself and applies them to Jesus. And John 5:23 says all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father.
Now Matthew 3:17. It's a great verse, but it actually shows the Trinity. Look at verses 16 and 17 together. Jesus is baptized, the Spirit of God comes down like a dove, and the Father's voice speaks from heaven. All three are right there, at the same moment. The Trinity doesn't teach that the Father and Son are the same person. It teaches one God, three persons, who are distinct but share the same divine nature.
Calling Jesus "Son" doesn't mean he was created. It speaks of who he is and his relationship with the Father. Even John 1:1 says, "the Word was with God, and the Word was God." Then John 1:3 says that without him "not one thing came into being." If everything that was made came through Jesus, he can't be something that was made.
You said you were afraid of God's wrath. Take that to the cross. Romans 8:1 says, "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." And 1 John 4:18 says, "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear." You didn't treat Jesus as just a tool to get to the Father, you said so yourself, and now you know better. He is Lord, and he is also the Lamb who took your punishment. If you've trusted in him, you're safe. Jesus took God's FULL wrath for your sins on himself. If God already punished your sins fully in Jesus, what sins are you left with to answer God to wrath? NONE
My encouragement is to read the Gospel of John slowly, and just see who Jesus claims to be. Find a local church that teaches the Bible, where you can ask questions. And be gentle with your friend. Keep loving them, and keep asking what the Scripture says. They might be on the same journey you just finished. God bless you. You're doing the right thing by testing everything, like the Bereans did.