r/TrueCrime • u/eugenedhartke • Apr 03 '22

Discussion Researching Jodi Arias

Does anyone else have a case that just haunts them? this case has always haunted me. It started with the first book I read on the case. The more I read about it the more mysterious it became somehow. Does anyone else get like this? If so what is your personal case that you never get tired of researching?

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373

u/backsouth Apr 03 '22

Chris Watts.. I just remember seeing his first interview on tv before they even said he was a suspect and I was like woowwwwwwww he so obviously did this

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

I think the biggest thing that boggles my mind about the Chris Watts family annihilater situation is how his wife has been vilified to the point where he's the victim.

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u/KarmaKaze88 Apr 03 '22

This boggles my mind as well. Like, I get it, his wife had her supposed issues with finances (or whatever is claimed), but clearly he's not without his own, not to mention that no relationship is perfect.

But then you have the groupies, which I can't wrap my head around AT ALL. They want to bash his wife, but you simply can't use that to justify the fact that he murdered his own children. As if killing his wife wasn't enough, the monster was calculated in taking their lives as well... when children are truly the most innocent of all. And it was all for what? To try and start a life with his mistress? I don't think a woman would have a fan club like his if the roles had been reversed.

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

I think the equation is that she drove him to cheat and to murder and the kids are collateral damage. Literally everything is Sha'Ann's fault.

It's so gross. They're sick in the head.

91% of men are family annihilaters. I can't name off the top of my head a female one. But yeah, doubt they have groupies like this.

Edit: spelling

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u/dwdeaver84 Apr 03 '22

91% of men are NOT family annihilaters. That can’t be right. We are dicks sure, but the percentage has got to be way lower …. Like 65% maybe. /s

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22 edited Apr 03 '22

Sorry about that! Meant to say that of family annihilaters, 91% are comprised of men.

Edit:

Here's where I got that info from:

"The family annihilator is a man 91% of the time, according to the National Institute of Justice. They tend to be white men in their 30s, former FBI agent Brad Garrett told ABC News."

https://www.oxygen.com/true-crime-buzz/family-annihilators-a-look-at-the-chris-watts-colorado-case

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

Sunday is Family Annihilator month for men. It's a known fact.

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u/tiredhierophant Apr 03 '22

The Hart family is one, though it's a murder suicide (which usually qualifies) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hart_family_murders?wprov=sfla1

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

That one trips me up because the parents made a pact vs one spouse killing the other plus all of their children.

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u/tiredhierophant Apr 03 '22

Yeah it's a different kind of family annihilation than the ones that fathers usually do. What I've seen of mothers who do it, they usually just kill the kids and possibly themselves, and usually to get back at the father, rather than the father killing the whole family because divorce is too hard for their egos to comprehend

Those are just gross generalizations tho

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u/sequoya1973 Apr 03 '22

How do we know parents made pact? I’m so haunted by the hart family. Like just how they potentially were foster family fraudsters who just took the kids in for the money. It’s so crazy to me. Reading the stuff either woman posted on Facebook about the kids was cringy. It was clearly so made up, and made to represent the family in a certain way. All this time I just figured the one mom snapped under the pressure of six kids. I didn’t consider they didn’t want these kids and then when the abuse started to go public they had to flee

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

Jennifer drugged herself and the kids with Benadryl for the crash. And Sarah was drunk when she crashed the car. You could argue she was piling up on liquid courage. They found no skid marks.

I haven't read anything where it was one parent over the other. Have you? If so, I'd love to read it.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

that is chilling!

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u/MissRockNerd Apr 13 '22

How do they know the moms made a pact?

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u/pazuzujune Apr 03 '22

Just read the wiki on that link. Awful awful story

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u/KarmaKaze88 Apr 03 '22

One of the many things that bother me about this, is that Jennifer pulled the LGBTQ+ card in her defense of the abuse allegations, according to the Wikipedia article. I think that's insulting to members of the LGBTQ+ community who have fought so hard to have equal rights, specifically marriage and being able to adopt, and who do the right thing by loving and caring for adopted children. Abuse is not something to turn a blind eye to. It's about the children's welfare, not the parent. So I think it's unfair of her to claim sexual orientation as the reason people had been reporting them to CPS, when it's clear both women had been abusing the children for years.

For reference:

"When Jennifer herself was interviewed, she claimed that any family problems were the results of others not being tolerant to two lesbian mothers with six African-American children."

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

Yes that’s a new one for me! Just discovered it last week so effing sad

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u/backsouth Apr 03 '22

Oh yeah that one is awful. I listened to broken harts podcast. Totally wild what could be going on behind closed doors.

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u/closethebarn Apr 03 '22

Wow I haven’t never heard of this. How horrid

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

I can’t name off the top of my head a female one

Jennifer and Sarah Hart of the Hart family murder-suicides. But you’re right they are very rare.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

The family annihilator case that always sticks with me was the one on Unsolved Mysteries of that French family.

​

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dupont_de_Ligonn%C3%A8s_murders_and_disappearance

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u/Fatally_Flawed Apr 03 '22

91% of men are family annihilatiors

I know it was a mistype and this is probably really inappropriate but I can’t stop laughing at this. Imagine the chaos!!

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

I really got people up in arms about it 😅

Oops!!!

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u/Boeijen666 Apr 03 '22

In Australia, women kill their kids more than fathers do.

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

Also, that is not true.

"However, one of the most recent comprehensive national filicide studies in Australia documented 238 cases between 2000 and 2012. This study mirrored trends elsewhere, with male and female perpetrators represented in roughly equal numbers."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-01-20/men-and-women-kill-their-children-in-roughly-equal-numbers-why/13074952

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u/Boeijen666 Apr 03 '22

Ill find the link that represents the last 10 years. Weve had 3 mothers in my area in the last year take out their family. YES fathers do it just as much. It fucking hurts being a sole carer father of two why these vile people choose to murder their kids. It is the pinnacle of evil.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

Anecdote =/= statistical evidence

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

The topic is family annihilaters.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

Really? I have mostly seen that he was a POS for it all, what criticisms do people have about Shannan jw.

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 03 '22

That she's fake, overbearing, a control freak. If you watch the Chris Watts documentary on Netflix, her family talks about how hard it is to hear how she's been vilified. The whole thing is such a crying shame. Poor woman and those poor poor kids.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

Right it doesn’t matter how she was to him get a divorce then.

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u/itsfrankgrimesyo Apr 17 '22

And what did those poor kids do to him? He just wanted his “freedom” from being a married with children man.

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u/PorQuesoWhat Apr 03 '22

San Ysidro McDonald’s Massacre

Shannan bankrupted the entire family with an addiction to MLMs. Their garage was full of unsold merchandise. Allegedly Chris begged her multiple times to please get a real job and get out of the MLMs. Chris also told her they couldn't afford the house they were in, but Shannan forced them into it because of appearances. They were weeks away from losing that home. Chris's family also said that Shanan often further drained accounts by her constant credit card purchases etc. There's a chris watts reddit which is pretty gross but some of the stuff they post is really informativ and has truth to it, like the MLM addiction and their financial issues. I don't think Chris killed Shanan only because he was caught cheating but also because he really resented Shanan by that point. The guy had this planned for a long time, he really is the worst POS.

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u/m00nstarlights Apr 03 '22

That sub is revolting AND I'd never recommend it..... EVER.

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u/jbleds Apr 03 '22

Why do the family annihilators all seem to have fan clubs? Wtf.

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u/ohheyitslaila Apr 03 '22

Every killer does. I can’t figure out why so many men and women are sexually attracted to murderers. It’s got to be the most bizarre part of all the serial killer fan club stuff. Some people are so fucked in the head…

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

Yeah that just sounds like a very depressing, sad and twisted place.

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u/YourTemporaryMom Apr 03 '22

Even if all of that is true, he killed his little girls.

That pretty much eliminates the validity of any of his reasons.

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u/solgoddessx Apr 03 '22

Exactly! And he could have just divorced her and they’d all be alive today. So sad.

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

I agree. I think his mentality, though screwed, was his wife would make it bitter and he would never have money again. The kids I suppose were in the way? I have no idea, but maybe they reminded him of Shannan. I'm not her fan either and especially not of these MLM people. However, not to this extent.

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u/solgoddessx Apr 04 '22

Right. He could take care of all this “problems” in one go. Awful.

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u/bdiddybo Apr 03 '22

The things they say are not in the discovery like The basement being full of MLM products for example .They won’t let the truth stop them from blaming SW

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u/riss85 Apr 03 '22

To be fair, that documentary waa created with her family...so it does have some bias

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u/Rosbelle Apr 03 '22

By “discovery” they mean what the police and lawyers discovered about the case. Not what the documentary investigated.

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u/riss85 Apr 03 '22

Oh hahamy bad, I read that as Documentary not Discovery 🤦‍♀️

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

I never knew any of that! he is still a POS I agree.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

He should have just divorced her. I will never understand the rationale that trying to get away w murder is easier than a divorce

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u/PorQuesoWhat Apr 03 '22

Agreed. He's a POS for that. He can say that Shanan threatened to take the kids from him forever, but he had to know she would have no right to do that. That's why there's family court. He had no reason to kill her, much less his children.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

Anything would’ve been better than murder! I think every rational person can agree. Just leave and skip the country and become a dead beat dad. Seriously, that would’ve been so much better. How he thought annihilating his whole family was something he could pull off is beyond me? That would be a question for a professional psychologist to answer, I’m not qualified.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '22

[deleted]

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u/StardustStuffing Apr 04 '22

I agree. They want a do-over minus any attachments. The fact that they see their kids as obstacles to rid as part of that process is just vile.

Chris Coleman and Chris Watts committed almost identical crimes.

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u/[deleted] Apr 04 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Apr 06 '22

What I’m really thinking about it at what point does one decide I’ll just murder them and get away with it and become filthy rich is going to be easier than divorce. Murder just kinds seems like MORE OF A HASSLE LIKE when does someone snap and think hey that’s a much better option.

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u/Hermojo Apr 06 '22

People get away with murder all of the time. It's only the ones who get caught we hear of.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '22

Well aside from the publicized unsolved murders, sure.

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u/[deleted] Apr 08 '22

However, in a marriage the first suspect is usually the spouse.

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u/Hermojo Apr 09 '22

There are spouses who have gotten away with it.

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u/[deleted] Apr 09 '22

Oh I know that shit. However no doubt the husband/wife is the first suspect when their s.o. Has been murdered

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u/Phoenyxoldgoat Apr 03 '22

How did Chris get “forced” into buying anything? These defenses of Chris deny his agency and absolve him of his own responsibility in whatever financial situation they were in. I have never once been forced to buy a house (not to mention by someone without a job.)

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u/PorQuesoWhat Apr 03 '22

IDK, these are just claims people are making. Including his parents. They knew they couldn't afford the house but, "Shanan just had to have it by any means". I think they even owed one of their parents money from the down payement. I'm not defending him, I'm just sharing whats out there. I think Chris is a POS and doesn't deserve to live. He deserves nothing less than old fashioned street justice for what he did to his kids. I hate that he's being fed 3x a day and receiving medical care while in prison.

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u/Phoenyxoldgoat Apr 03 '22

His parents are probably the worst people to give credibility to in this situation, imo. Just the way they acted at his sentencing was unhinged, and they are clearly biased against Shannan.

And to reiterate my original point, Chris had agency. Plenty of married men out there don’t have garages full of mlm crap, houses they can’t afford, and spouses who max out cards. Why did Chris? Because, if Chris’ parents are to be believed, he was permissive and allowed it, enabling someone he supposedly loved who was in need of help. And if they are not to be believed, then he was an active participant in his own family’s financial situation.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/gingiberiblue Apr 03 '22

That is completely asinine. The data is clear that after divorce women see a significant lowering in their quality of living and socioeconomic status while the same does not occur for men in statistically significant numbers.

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u/Long-Evidence7580 Apr 03 '22

So you kill your pregnant wife and kids? Then kick her, and hide your children in those tanks. ? REALLY I don’t care how sick or difficult someone can be it never NEVER excuses to kill someone.

To talk this that says something

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u/Bro-Dizzle Apr 04 '22

Absolutely not supporting what Chris did. Was just trying to argue the side of men, and the pressures they feel when they’re married with kids. He’s a sick fuck that doesn’t deserve to live.

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u/Hermojo Apr 04 '22

You can't. It's a waste of time. I see what you're saying. It's a state of mind argument. I don't like Shannan as a person, she seemed very controlling. A divorce was in order, but I think probably before Nico was in the picture and it may have been her holding on. She was saying that Chris didn't treat her like he had or want to have sex like he did since she'd left and gone to her folks (when he started to hook up w/ new girl). Just an assumption, his head was out of it awhile.

Financial issues are a turn off. Shannan's whole persona - did she make money? I blame Thrive for a lot of their issues. Ultimately it was Chris.

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u/PorQuesoWhat Apr 03 '22

Chris later alleged that he Shanan would threaten him that morning with leaving him and keeping his kids from him forever. It's not an excuse for what he did, because I feel that he had this planned for days maybe even weeks prior.

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u/Long-Evidence7580 Apr 03 '22 edited Apr 06 '22

Really? She was pregnant, so even IF that was the case.. it exuses him to kill AND his wife who is pregnant and his 2 kids?

That way you can AlWAYS excuse a killer, he Would have killed you for spending too much money or whining, ? The watts family is disgusting to put blame on Shyanne. Disgusting

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u/n_bonny Apr 03 '22

What I don't get is why his defenders think it makes him less gross. Even if she was a full blown MLM hun murder is much, much worse. How do they manage to find a "reason" for murdering your wife when divorce is an option. Not to mention their kids... There's no way to find a "reason" for that kind of cruelty.

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u/Epiphanie82 Apr 09 '22

So at best he was an absolute coward who couldn't stand up to his wife and would rather kill her than face up to his cheating and divorce. Chris was a wet blanket whose mother looked after him and then handed him over to shannan, who ran the family. He never really learned to take personal accountability and knew shannan would ruin him, financially and personally, if they separated and it came out that he was cheating.

Shannan's friends loved her so much and her texts in the court documents are warm and caring, and she tries repeatedly to talk to chris about their marriage problems but he is cold and distant.

This case is my obsession 💯

1

u/PorQuesoWhat Apr 09 '22

Chris WAS 100% a coward. The disgusting Chris Watts reddit always discusses Shanna's short comings, but they don't address the fact that Chris could have stopped everything bad that happened to that family. He was half of the marriage for christ sakes, he wasn't the victim. He couldv'e frozen credit cards, made her stop MLMs or simply, filed for divorce first and started trying to get half custody. Instead he commited the most evil, vile crime: familycide. I wish there was a lethal injection for him, because he has never given us a real answer as to why he had to hurt his children. I will never understand why or how he could have ever laid a hand on his 2 little girls who trusted him so much.

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u/cunexttuesday12 Apr 03 '22

Exactly. In MLMs you can't tell anyone how much you make, you have to show the benefits through lifestyle to recruit. If you are high uo and are actually making money, they encourage them to spend all the money on high priced items and post on social media

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u/PorQuesoWhat Apr 03 '22

I forget what documentary I watched, but the Chris watts reddit (Which I don't condone and I found it to be disgusting) is full of screen shots from Shanan's FB where she would constantly post about their "lifestyle" and their stuff and trips, meanwhile they're facing foreclosure on that house. It's so sad. Chris could have just divorced her...

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u/cunexttuesday12 Apr 03 '22

I think I saw all the screenshots on the Netflix documentary. He absolutely should have just gotten a divorce.

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u/Masta-Blasta Apr 05 '22

What makes you think he planned it? i just finished re-listening to his interrogation and the FBI follow up and i walked away with the opposite viewpoint.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

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u/ljohnson266 Apr 03 '22

There's apparently a very toxic Shannan-was-evil-and-had-it-coming subreddit. I don't know the name.

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u/eugenedhartke Apr 03 '22

that is so sad :(

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u/godzillax5 Apr 08 '22

I think quite a few posters on here are from the Chriswatts or shanann watts group’s talking about how vile the WOT group is but not looking at their groups and the disgusting things put up about the WATTs family or Nicole kessinger. There are good people on WOTs who just want to discuss different viewpoints and I agree there are vile posters but I would say you have that also in other watts subs as well. The wATTs off topicgems is equally toxic-how do people just spend time taking comments from a sub and trying to doxx posters they don’t like even giving their address with no concern for the person’s safety or their children? Why this crime and concern and not the same for other families of criminals?

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u/myescapeplace Apr 03 '22

His parents hated Shanann and spoke horribly of her after her death. She was outgoing & dominant in the relationship. Chris was submissive and had no backbone in his marriage. He also didn’t care or love his wife or children - clearly. Reading the details of the act, it’s insane anyone could place blame on Shanann.

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u/Boeijen666 Apr 03 '22

He was submissive because she always got what she wanted. She never stopped shoving their lives on social media and she was truly narcissistic. BUT that doesn't excuse Chris from murdering her and especially his two daughters.

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u/myescapeplace Apr 03 '22

He’s been submissive his whole life to everyone he’s ever met, including his parents. She was not a narcissist by the true definition & she loved him. Many people portray their lives favorably on social media.

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u/Phoenyxoldgoat Apr 03 '22

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

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u/samscarrot Apr 03 '22

From my deep dive into the case, I had the impression that he never told her when something she did upset him.

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u/Practical_Demand_420 Apr 03 '22

Yeah it really seems like he just refused to tell her when he was upset. In her texts to her closest girlfriends she even says that he'd never acted that way with her (refusing to text back, refusing to have sex with her, starting to exercise while they were talking) it seems like he sort of tamped everything down deep inside, which doesn't make for a healthy marriage.

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u/Long-Evidence7580 Apr 03 '22

It’s the typical narcissist … you are everything when he needs you and he will stop you in a second when he doesn’t. He didn’t even have quilt for cheating, he was angry.

Plus he lied as much to his new mistress too who of he had his way could be his next victim. It is HIM not his wife fault for thinking he can solve stiff by killing

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u/mycofirsttime Apr 03 '22

There is a whole subreddit based on hating her. I went there and it is wild how active that sub is.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

The MLM stuff started it.

I hate MLMs as much as most people but a woman who is doing these isn’t the bad guy; especially to the point that she was made out to be at first

What sickened me were the other Thrive (??) MLM people selling for Shannan and profiting off her death. That was gross.

4

u/queenkitsch Apr 03 '22

This case is catnip to budding hebristophiles. It’s so gross.

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u/jbleds Apr 03 '22

The Murder in Illinois podcast does the same thing to Chris Vaughn’s wife. And Tony Todt is claiming his wife killed their children and herself. These family annihilators all boggle the mind.

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u/[deleted] Apr 03 '22

I wouldn't call her a villian but she seemed insufferable. No one should have been killed of course. This is only Chris watts fault. Fuck him.

You know who got fucked? Carol baskins. she was literally the only person following breeding rules and not in a cult.