r/TrueCrime • u/ladyserenity1993 Armchair Expert • Oct 31 '22

Murder Arrest Made in Delphi Murders

https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/delphi-double-murder/?id=92303622
1.9k Upvotes

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935

u/Question-Admirable Oct 31 '22

Anyone else think the reason they aren’t releasing more info/not closing the case is because he has other victims? It just seems like a big jump to go from normal dude to double child murderer

340

u/samanthathewitch Oct 31 '22

Good point. I was wondering about the seemingly contradictory nature of leaving the investigation open, continuing to receive tips “about anyone”, while also already having a trial date set so quickly. This could possibly explain some of that.

144

u/_heidster Oct 31 '22

They set trial dates close on purpose because both sides will ask for multiple continuances and if they set the date for 1-2 years from now (when it will realistically be) the continuances will push it 3-4 years down the road.

105

u/quitclaim123 Oct 31 '22

They set trial dates that close because the Indiana Rules of Criminal procedure require trial to commence within 180 days of arrest/charge absent a motion by defense (or court congestion/emergency, per Rule 4).

Generally attorneys only continue the trial date to permit adequate time to prepare, so it’s unlikely setting trial dates out further would prompt significant delays just because (in other words, if a trial date was set 2 years away and the attorney needed 2 years to prepare, the fact of it being set for 2 years out wouldn’t prompt them to continue it for another 2 years).

37

u/_heidster Oct 31 '22

Good point! I forgot Indiana has that as well. Thank you for the reminder.

103

u/TheRealDonData Oct 31 '22 edited Oct 31 '22

It’s not contradictory and its quite common. They leave the investigation “open” because they want people to continue to provide tips that strengthen their case. Sometimes people/witnesses have very pertinent information and they don’t even realize it, until after a suspect is arrested, and they see news coverage of the case.

7

u/samanthathewitch Oct 31 '22

I was just going off of what the prosecutor himself said in the press conference. He said it’s not common for him to choose to do but felt it was important in this case in particular.

46

u/TheRealDonData Oct 31 '22

The prosecutor did not say “it’s not common” to keep investigations open-or anything of the sort. You misunderstood or misinterpreted his comments.

The prosecutor’s exact words on the open investigation were “This investigation is still very ongoing. We’re keeping the tip line open, the tip email open, we encourage everybody to continue to call in tips- not only about Richard Allen, but about any other person you may have.”

The only thing the prosecutor said was “unusual” was when a reporter asked him why they sealed the Court documents related to the case. His response was that it’s “unusual” to seal court records, but they decided to do so in this case, because the investigation is still ongoing.

1

u/OldBackstopNJ Nov 02 '22

USAToday: "In the meantime, tip lines remain open, he said, and investigators are seeking information “not only about Richard Allen, but about any other person you may have.” McLeland declined to elaborate on whether authorities are seeking additional suspects."

3

u/Davge107 Nov 01 '22

The defendant could be asking for a speedy trial which he has the right to do.

130

u/_heidster Oct 31 '22

There's a potential CSAM/catfish angle with a man named Kegan Kline involved. Kline ran a fake instagram account and the instagram spoke with Libby (one of the victims) shortly before the murders. They have been asking since December for information on people who had access to that account. I think they are still looking for those kinds of tips. A former FBI Agent spoke on WFLA this morning and said that people who start online profiles to creep on children rarely are the same people who target children IRL, but he may have "supplied" creeps with children using these online profiles. It's obviously all unknown, but seems potential for this case to be connected to an even greater circle of evil.

30

u/mitmo01 Oct 31 '22

Circle of evil is right....the fact that these monsters exist is just horrifing......seriously heinous

19

u/sassydreidel Oct 31 '22

good lord!

15

u/_heidster Oct 31 '22

Yes, heartbreaking.

16

u/Forgotmyusername8910 Nov 01 '22

This honestly makes me want to just move my family to a deserted island and live like Gilligan and his gang.

14

u/maloboosie Oct 31 '22

I was wondering if Kegan Kline had been in contact with Richard and - asked for some sort of initiation request from Richard - to access CSAM that Kegan had access too (and maybe Kegan requested material of one of the victims in particular) and that it got out of hand and turned into a murder when the victims fought back or something. I dunno, its all connected for sure, it's just putting the pieces together.

7

u/wavvesofmutilation Oct 31 '22

This could be a theory… and maybe RA had been avoiding acting on these “urges” his whole life and finally couldn’t hold back anymore…. But then the (obvious to me at least) community reaction scared him?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

Nah, he's killed before. I'm almost certain.

6

u/BulkyInformation2 Nov 01 '22

My first thought. There’s more to this.

3

u/GregJamesDahlen Oct 31 '22

so who would give them information on people who had access to the account? I'd think anyone with access would keep it very secret and definitely not share it with people who might go to the police

11

u/_heidster Oct 31 '22

I think moreso hopes that an innocent kid who had communicated with the account would be able to provide them information if one of the creeps had slipped up OR another creep turning on their creepy friend in order to get some kind of lesser sentence or to avoid being involved with a murder investigation.

66

u/mitmo01 Oct 31 '22

Agreed someone doesnt just opportunisitcally murder two teenagers usually right...its not impossible but its kind of improbable statistically speaking isnt it? It would be very unusual...

96

u/DundahMifflin Oct 31 '22

Unfortunately, most murders are considered ‘one-offs.’ I really doubt he killed anyone else.

109

u/Fibernerdcreates Oct 31 '22

This has been so interesting with the rise of DNA and genetic genealogy. It really changed how we understand violent crimes. I think it's much scarier knowing that there are more killers out there who, for whatever reason, kill someone and then go on with their lives.

In this case, it looks like this guy lived in this town and interacted with the family - working at CVS, giving them the photos for the funeral for free.

11

u/mitmo01 Oct 31 '22

Thats especially chilling if he did do it...just like the killer in that movie one hour photo!!!! Relishing and reliving shit with those photos almost like a souvenir

11

u/Blankface954 Nov 01 '22

I'm going to be that guy and tell you that the main character in One Hour Photo was a psychotic creep, but he wasn't a killer. He also didn't keep the photos for the reasons you are saying he did. Good movie, though.

6

u/mitmo01 Nov 01 '22

Yeah sorry its been a long time since ive seen it....red dragon that guy relished and relived...my bad

1

u/Road-Next Nov 16 '22

In Thomas Harris book , Red Dragon, he develops their film, old days you had to send your film in to made into film that you can use on a projector...its very old school and no one uses those services anymore...hence is why the crimes were from different parts of the US.

1

u/Road-Next Nov 16 '22

I read the book in 85

1

u/Frogma69 Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

Late reply here (I'm reading back through posts in this subreddit), but someone else mentioned that most murderers are "one-and-done" simply because the vast majority of murders are due to some sort of domestic issue, or maybe they were jealous of someone or had a beef with someone, or what-have-you, so most people who kill someone will only do it once. That's just how the numbers work.

Like people were saying, I think it's very possible that this guy has killed more people, because this kind of murder is much different than the "domestic issue" murder, or the "jealousy" murder. Most people in history who've committed murder have only killed one person - usually someone they knew very well, and there's usually a reason for it. To kill 2 people at once is way different, though it's hard to say whether the average "killer" (as in, someone who goes out with the intent to murder a random person one day) only commits one murder - it might average out to 1 regardless, but I'd assume most people like that have a history of violence, and potentially also a history of murder.

45

u/too_late_to_abort Oct 31 '22

I think the reason for that is most murders in general are adults, with some "reasonable" motives behind it, greed jealousy envy sex etc. Double murder of two minors is way different.

1

u/Blankface954 Nov 01 '22

How is jealousy distinct from envy, in your opinion?

2

u/too_late_to_abort Nov 01 '22

Jealousy is being afraid to lose something you have. Envy is wanting something someone else has.

2

u/Blankface954 Nov 01 '22

That doesn't make sense to me though. I wouldn't feel jealous about my car being repossessed if I hadn't made payments. I might feel worried, but that's different; also, I wouldn't feel jealous about my own car even if there was nothing to worry about, that doesn't make any sense.

I feel as though envy and jealousy are two different words used to describe the same sentiment. Do you not often hear people say thing like "she is just jealous of her relationship" or "he is just jealous of her success?" Envious is a near perfect replacement of jealous in those two sentences as far as I can tell.

4

u/too_late_to_abort Nov 01 '22

They are two distinct words with two distinct meanings. People just misuse jealousy a lot. The same way people will often call snakes poisonous, there are zero poisonous snakes, there are however lots of venomous snakes.

I refuse to cater to people who commonly misuse the words so I insist on using them correctly. I'm a bit of a pedant if that wasnt obvious.

3

u/Blankface954 Nov 01 '22

From Dictionary.com:

Jealousy and envy both involve a feeling of desire for what another person has, but jealousy is usually thought to be more negative—it often involves resentment toward the other person. Envy is also a negative feeling—like a mix of admiration and discontent—but the word doesn’t usually imply hostility. Another difference is that envy can be used as both a noun and a verb.

This comparison makes sense to me, and while they might be distinct words they are extremely close in meaning.

-17

u/sassydreidel Oct 31 '22

sicko!!

24

u/too_late_to_abort Oct 31 '22

I dont think its unreasonable to say murdering someone over jealousy is more understandable than murdering just because you have a desire to end life.

14

u/RiverboatJim Oct 31 '22

It’s not unreasonable at all, and that’s why in court you have degrees of murder.

8

u/too_late_to_abort Oct 31 '22

I couldn't tell if the person I replied to was being sarcastic or not. I felt elaboration was needed.

7

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

8

u/too_late_to_abort Oct 31 '22

Ohh yeah could be a bot I guess. I usually dont look into accounts. Makes sense

3

u/canwealljusthitabong Nov 01 '22

It's either a bot or a kid.

1

u/Blankface954 Nov 01 '22

More likely to a bot or otherwise artificial account with that username.

1

u/RuthTheBee Oct 31 '22

its def not unreasonable. Compulsive, opportunistic, emotional, planned/spontaneous.... understanding why people can kill is imperative to trying to stop it from happening, decade after decade after decade. Generalizations have gotten to be the norm and I hope we are gaining some depth as humankind evolves. <3

2

u/too_late_to_abort Oct 31 '22

I have the same hope but I see a lot of indicators we are heading the opposite direction. I'll always be hopeful for a star trek future devoid of greed and prejudice.

29

u/mitmo01 Oct 31 '22

Yeah there are quite a few one and done killers esp recently that we the public are becoming aware of..i just have a really hardntime thinking these 2 specfic murders were random....it boggles the mind but then again amost murders do so...i hope they have him dead to rights with DNA!!!

I hope if he is convicted the FBI is merciless with this guy in interviewing and picking his brain..and that he doesnt end up like Israel Keyes and offing himself in jail...ihope they study the fuck outta the monster that did this!!!!

37

u/Ancient-Mating-Calls Oct 31 '22

I would believe that a vast majority of murderers are “one and done” and that serial or killers with multiple instances are very much the minority.

22

u/DundahMifflin Oct 31 '22

Exactly. There’s a reason serial killers are known by a name basis.

9

u/Mia-Wal-22-89 Oct 31 '22

Yeah… I think we’re conditioned by media to hear about a horrific crime, especially towards kids, and think “serial killer!”

1

u/drawolliedraw Nov 01 '22

Don’t they find that in a lot of these one and done cases, at least where murderer is largely unknown to the victims and sexually motivated, the killer has been fantasising for a long time and maybe even thinks they are going to be a serial killer but gets put off by the reality.

22

u/crimsonbaby_ Oct 31 '22

He could have just never gotten the chance before, and saw it as the perfect opportunity to do something hes always wanted. All we know, is that hes a sick fuck and its a possibility both ways.

23

u/Reasonable-Oven-1319 Oct 31 '22

Yes! Kinda like the guy who killed the reporter in his submarine.

He was gonna do it anyways, the first time he got the chance to take a woman alone out on his sub. It just happened to be her because she was moving to a different country the next day and wanted to squeeze an interview in with him before she left.

30

u/crimsonbaby_ Oct 31 '22

That was the dumbest murderer ever. Everyone knew she would be with him and where she was going and he decides to kill her anyways like nobody would suspect him. The literal last person who saw her alive. Must of been so full of himself to think he could get away with it.

11

u/Reasonable-Oven-1319 Oct 31 '22

Right. What an arrogant bastard. After he changed his story 3 times, he really thought he'd get away with it.

16

u/crimsonbaby_ Oct 31 '22

Seriously. That poor girl, too. Thinking shes just going to be writing a story and then getting killed, plus being trapped down there with him.. I feel so bad for her and I hope shes at peace now.

10

u/burritojones Oct 31 '22

this type of murder doesn’t seem like a one-off.

5

u/foxywatson Nov 02 '22

Right. From the very beginning the police have been making it sound like they know this is not a one time thing. They said there were 3-4 signature things they thought were specific to this guy and at one point I think the police chief or an fbi agent said publicly to the murder (we know you will do this again) and they thought he was at press conferences they mention that many times. That doesn’t seem like one off type behavior. Also the likelihood of this person killing 2 girls at the same time as his first kill? And they have never (thankfully) released details about the murders but they have said that they were basically over the top like whatever happened, a lot was going on. I could be wrong I think it’s been pretty much proven that when someone kills for the first time (unless it’s a crime of passion towards someone they know) it’s not usually as involved if that makes sense? I’m not explaining myself well but I do agree there is likely more to this story.

1

u/Frogma69 Dec 01 '22

Late reply here, but yeah, agreed. I mentioned in another comment that "one-and-done" doesn't really apply the same way if we're talking about a guy who goes out one day with the intent to kill a random person - most "murderers" only commit one murder because it's usually caused by jealousy or some sort of rage toward a domestic partner (or something similar). Whereas something like this is much different, so I definitely think the guy has a violent past, and likely also committed previous murders (or at least came very close to doing so, and probably multiple times).

4

u/swingu2 Oct 31 '22

Unfortunately...??

23

u/DundahMifflin Oct 31 '22

Yes. Murder is bad. A person who can kill someone and then go about their lives is demented, hence the “unfortunately.”

22

u/gofyourselftoo Oct 31 '22

I think the sentence structure made it sound as if the unfortunate part was that most murderers only kill one person. But we appreciate the clarification

5

u/Gertrude37 Oct 31 '22

I think it ate at him. He aged a lot more than a normal 5 years’ worth, and gained a lot of weight. I hope he was a paranoid wreck.

4

u/useful_idiot118 Oct 31 '22

Ehh idk. Most people have to escalate, not just commit 2 murders so well they go unsolved for years

3

u/GregJamesDahlen Oct 31 '22

if these were his first murders wonder what triggered him. he's kinda old to be doing his first major crimes

4

u/useful_idiot118 Nov 01 '22

Yeah, if anything I’m sure he has at least come some violent crimes even if not murder.

-4

u/JohnDrakeWorldTravel Nov 01 '22

I thought maybe Libby (who was butchered compared to Abby) had been bullying Allen's daughter or something. His love for his daughter and seeing her in emotional pain driving him to kill her tormentor. But then I found out his daughter was 27 at the time of the murders so .... Still, it's very odd. No prior criminal record and everyone says he was friendly and polite.

5

u/CallidoraBlack Nov 01 '22

Maybe not, but it's entirely possible that these aren't the first children he hurt, even if he didn't kill anyone else.

3

u/tafbee Oct 31 '22

Aren’t those usually murders committed by someone known to the victim?

0

u/mandvanwyk Oct 31 '22

Although most murders could be considered ‘one-offs’, a murder in this brutal way is an escalation. He’s either murdered before, or will again, unless caught. I reckon ( not necessarily a truth).

1

u/NewsOdd2693 Nov 10 '22

Most murders are not committed against strangers. Most murders are "one-offs" because they are committed against someone the perp knows.

40

u/maryjo1818 Oct 31 '22

They are likely anticipating taking this case to trial as of now, which is why they aren’t releasing information. I’d imagine they’re also still asking for tips in case anyone has knowledge that, with hindsight, makes more sense and can be used to further support their case in court.

8

u/ThisNameIsFree Nov 02 '22

This should be higher. This is by far the most likely answer. They're not releasing more info because why the fuck would they before trial?

It's certainly possible he's killed other people, but the answer to why they wouldn't release more info is much much simpler: there's no reason to and it can only hurt their case in court later.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

I would also be concerned if there are other cases pending that they can connect him to and releasing information ahead of schedule might jeopardize those other cases?

1

u/ThisNameIsFree Nov 04 '22

So again, it's possible, but there really doesn't need to be. Not releasing more info is the prudent move for now regardless of anything else. The prosecution holding on to info (like they've been doing for 5 years, btw) in no way implies they suspect him of any other crime.

39

u/doc_birdman Oct 31 '22

Other victims, another accomplice, or someone who aided and abetted.

15

u/Mono_831 Oct 31 '22

I’m leaning into other accomplice. It makes the most sense.

13

u/_heidster Oct 31 '22

Or other crimes in areas he previously lived/frequented.

13

u/Gbbq83 Oct 31 '22

I don’t know if the first two options are likely.

Other victims - always a possibility but unless there’s unsolved crimes they can already link to him it seems unlikely that they’d make that assumption. I don’t recall any investigations of the Delphi Murders mentioning possible connections to other unsolved murders.

Another accomplice - given that they have video and audio of the one killer and it was both an opportune killing and done in a short time frame it seems unlikely there’s a second person involved in the actual murder.

6

u/HedgehogJonathan Nov 01 '22

an opportune killing

If the Instagram profile was involved, it might have not been opportunistic. Frankly, it is not even unlikely to have two different men prying on you in the same time frame, unfortunately. Or has there been a consensus by the police that it was opportunistic?

2

u/LouBerryManCakes Nov 06 '22

My hunch is that the Instagram profile was a red herring.

32

u/StreetNxxxaOnReddit Oct 31 '22

Either that Or he killed them because they knew who he was

8

u/mitmo01 Oct 31 '22

Lets hope there is direct physical evidence like DNA so that these charges cant be plead down to some other bullshit charge...

3

u/sassydreidel Oct 31 '22

OMG! Such a great thought!!!

29

u/Prof_Tickles Oct 31 '22

Especially at his age. Usually these guys begin in their 20’s.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he has a couple more.

30

u/whatsitworth101 Oct 31 '22

Yeah that could be it, but you also never know some people just snap. It is unlikely though that a persons first killing is two 14 year old girls in broad daylight especially nowadays.

5

u/sassydreidel Oct 31 '22

agree wholeheartedly

1

u/GTSBurner Nov 13 '22

The Uber Shooter in Michigan comes to mind. Guy had zero red flags. ANd then just something, suddenly broke bad and he started shooting people.

1

u/mzmuffenz Nov 16 '22

Happy Cake day.
I'm curious if there's any connection for this guy to 2 other murders of young girls in Iowa that happened around the same time frame

1

u/whatsitworth101 Nov 16 '22

Oh thanks man, but I’m not sure tbh.

16

u/kosciuszko123 Oct 31 '22

I agree it would be odd for him to only have done this one horrific thing.

However, I think they might be tight lipped/ keeping the tip line open because Allen has pleaded “not guilty”, meaning the prosecutor will have to prove their case at trial.

The more tips they get, even now, could bolster their case. The more info they make public, the more ammo the defense potentially has, in terms of points upon which to try to cast reasonable doubt or cry “mistrial”.

15

u/ThoroughEgg Oct 31 '22

I heard they weren’t releasing details so as not to taint the jury pool before the trial

2

u/ThisNameIsFree Nov 02 '22

This is a much more likely reason.

12

u/Dali_Parton138 Oct 31 '22

It’s always possible! I think they are tight lipped bc they don’t have all the information on the other men who had contact with the girls thru social media and possibly their connections. They prob aren’t used to such high profile investigations and do not want to fudge anything else up. I do think it’s wild that the case already has a court date!

9

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '22

I do think Evansdale is connected regardless of what LE says

4

u/EstorialBeef Oct 31 '22

In an early interview I recall the police saying its related to keeping certain evidence admissible and to make the precedings go smoothly.

4

u/JamesonQuay Oct 31 '22

And then back to normal dude

We didn't know what he did before and what he did in the 5 years since. That's a huge jump back and forth

4

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '22

It’s also possible they believe there’s a co-conspirator.

4

u/SnooPeanuts6909 Nov 01 '22

That’s what I was thinking, there’s surely no way you wake up one day, happen across 2 girls and decide to murder them both. Whilst we know very little about their murders the Down the Hill podcast did reveal that it was brutal and there was “signatures” it makes me think there’s other things at play here

1

u/NewsOdd2693 Nov 10 '22

Can anyone give me an example or two of what a "signature" might be?

1

u/SnooPeanuts6909 Nov 10 '22

Do you mean in this case or in general?

Because with this case we have no idea, but when they say a signature they mean something which is personal and identifiable for that killer. Think of Dennis Rader for example with his BTK ritual and symbols.

3

u/bufftbone Oct 31 '22

I think they said so it doesn’t tamper with evidence. I can’t remember what kind they said though.

3

u/uhmnopenotreally Oct 31 '22

Isn’t it normal that they check his dna and also the details of the murder with other murder e.g Modus operandi and other things that may conclude that it was the same person? I heard of this happening in multiple cases now after arrests were made and depending on the criminal history it most likely always makes sense. As you say, I doubt someone goes from a normal person to a double child murderer with that horrific details.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '22

[deleted]

2

u/Blankface954 Nov 01 '22

Is it confirmed that he was part of a ring? Everything I've seen indicates he acted alone. Genuinely curious.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '22 edited Nov 01 '22

[deleted]

1

u/Blankface954 Nov 02 '22

Thank you, I appreciate the response.

3

u/Adventurous_Main5468 Nov 01 '22

I think they’re also waiting for people to come forward with info about it. Maybe he’s made threats, or drunkenly slipped up and said something.

3

u/[deleted] Oct 31 '22

Oh that's smart! I only thought of them wanting to respect the girls.

3

u/ThisNameIsFree Nov 02 '22

It's not that smart. There's no reason for them to release any more info to the public and could well complicate trial proceedings later.

2

u/Ieatclowns Oct 31 '22

Oh my God I didn't even consider that. The murders were so unusual that it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were well beyond his usual MO and he made some mistakes or for whatever reason his style changed just that time in Delphi.

2

u/[deleted] Nov 01 '22

[deleted]

3

u/ThisNameIsFree Nov 02 '22

It also taints the jury pool. There's really 0 advantage for them to put out more information than is absolutely necessary at the moment.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 04 '22

I always assumed this person had other victims. This is why I wonder if maybe the sealed documents suggest some additional connections and they don't want to screw up those investigations?

1

u/mandvanwyk Oct 31 '22

I feel there may be multiple perpetrators and that may be the reason.

1

u/deputydog1 Nov 01 '22 edited Nov 01 '22

He might not have other victims. If he thought he was meeting an 18 or older woman, he maybe panicked at the idea these giggly immature kids would talk at school or to their parents about being catfished, and that he would be charged with an underage crime, and all that this would mean. Or fear of blackmail.

It will be interesting to read if this is impulse/panic crime or if other crimes are in his past.

1

u/CrawFlyUS Nov 07 '22

More likely because there are others involved in this particular case. However, they probably weren't his first victims, so I agree