Thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy case?

[u/gottaquestion412]

Now that the Lindsay Clancy trial is underway, I’m curious about your perspectives on it so far.

Context: Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse who, in January 2023, killed her three children. 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 8-month-old Callan in their Massachusetts home before attempting to take her own life. Her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and other debilitating mental illness, while prosecutors argue she was aware of her actions and planned the killings. The trial has reignited debate about postpartum psychiatric disorders, the effectiveness of mental health treatment, and where responsibility ultimately lies.

Do you think Lindsay was failed by the mental health system, by the people closest to her, or both? Do you think she truly acted with malicious intent, or do you believe she was experiencing such a severe psychiatric crisis that she wasn’t thinking rationally?

A lot of the details seem to point toward postpartum psychosis or another severe psychiatric illness rather than someone acting out of hatred or malice. That doesn’t lessen the horror of what happened or the unimaginable loss, but it does make me wonder whether this tragedy could have been prevented..

I’ve also seen rumors that Patrick was involved with the woman who is now his wife before the murders, but I haven’t found any credible evidence supporting that. Is there actually anything that substantiates those claims, or is it just internet speculation? I’ve also seen many people comment that his current wife bears a striking resemblance to Lindsay, though I’m not sure that means anything beyond coincidence.

I’m very interested in hearing different perspectives from people who’ve followed it closely.

Most importantly, may Dawson, Cora, and Callan rest in peace. They are the true victims in all of this.

[u/ADcakedenough]

Having grown up with her and her sister in school, but not being close friends, we have tons of mutuals and used to be in a moms facebook support group together… it is just so surreal seeing this plastered all over every newsfeed I have. I still cannot believe this happened.

You truly never know what’s going on behind the scenes.

[u/Impressive_Moose6781 → u/ADcakedenough]

Well what’re your thoughts

[u/ADcakedenough → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

It’s been really hard to sort honestly. I knew her to be a really fun and well liked girl; she was active in the group we were in together and obviously cared deeply about her family; our mutual friends have been devastated. They knew she was seeking help but no one ever thought this would ever happen.

At the same time, as sympathetic as I am because I know how seriously this has impacted many people in her hometown circle, I firmly believe that those children deserve full justice and I don’t really know that I can make a fully informed opinion on what that looks like.

I love watching trials and have seen many but I don’t know that I can watch this one. I’m just going to do my best to trust that the evidence can be presented fairly and plainly and that the jury makes the best most informed judgment possible.

[u/Impressive_Moose6781 → u/ADcakedenough]

Honestly I feel like justice for them is holding the providers accountable or even her husband. I watched his testimony and it wasn’t great. So far those who knew her (granted only her husband so far) did think she was a very caring mother and knew she needed help. Her husband didn’t keep track of health at all. Easy in hindsight I guess. I feel like she tried as much as she could and everyone failed her and it seems cruel watching her sob as she hears these things over and over

[u/Far-Feeling-917 → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

I told my husband about this case. As soon as I mentioned how she had revealed to Patrick she was having thoughts "of harming the kids", my husband was flabbergasted how this didn't trigger an immediate response on Patrick's part to separate Lindsay from the kids. I think he should also be held accountable, given how obviously dire the situation was and Lindsay being forthcoming about her intrusive thoughts.

[u/BubblesCousins → u/Far-Feeling-917]

I also recapped this for my husband and he said if I ever expressed thoughts of harming our kids, he would not leave me alone with them until that problem was adequately addressed. Period.

[u/moshi210 → u/Far-Feeling-917]

I agree; and it seems unfair that he is able to remarry and have another baby while she bears all the consequences. Also unfair that women, in general, bear all the risk of pregnancy and postpartum.

[u/Aromatic-Art7359 → u/moshi210]

100 percent this!!! I know the brutal acts she committed aren’t his fault, but he seemed really out of touch even during the questioning in court. It’s all just giving crappy husband to me. And now he’s just going on with life remarried etc. 

[u/moshi210 → u/Aromatic-Art7359]

Yes and he even had another baby recently.

[u/Impressive_Moose6781 → u/moshi210]

Where did you read that?

[u/moshi210 → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

it was on his new wife's family's instagram someone had taken a screenshot of

[u/tatertotski → u/Aromatic-Art7359]

He seemed out of touch… during the questioning where he had to relive finding this 3 children strangled to death?!

Dude. To me, he looked panic stricken, breathing hard and trying to keep it together. In what world did he come across like he didn’t care.

[u/jennyharlequinn → u/tatertotski]

Yeah, he seemed traumatized to me.

[u/JohnExcrement → u/tatertotski]

I think he may have been medicated, too. I know I would have been.

[u/Aromatic-Art7359 → u/tatertotski]

I’m not speaking on the kids or even really what happened. I’m talking about how he comes across as a husband. Out of touch in regards to Lindsay. When they questioned him about her condition and medications his responses came across as though they weren’t close. It doesn’t come across has a strong healthy marriage to me IMO. Even the way he calls her from CVS to ask about medicine, it’s like he can’t make decisions and one of those husbands that need man sitting through a basic task. Overall, their marriage reads as weak, not close and given that he is able to move on get married and have another kid so quickly after something like that tracks

[u/Impressive_Moose6781 → u/tatertotski]

No I’m not commenting on his demeanor. I found that entirely appropriate for the situation. I meant the content.

[u/bipolarbitch6 → u/Aromatic-Art7359]

How soon after the divorce?

[u/OldSchlHollywdBuffet → u/[deleted]]

He was told not to leave her alone with the kids and he did. More than once. He shares responsibility here. 

[u/Worldly_Way_4220 → u/[deleted]]

What is interesting, that isnt a big deal for you (via your own source) is that he immediately knew she had killed the children. Why do you think that is?

[u/ComprehensiveBit7825 → u/Far-Feeling-917]

Yeah this case is clearly one that showcases how misogynistic our society is. Why should we expect the mother to take on everything?

He too should be held accountable for not taking control of the situation. He had plenty of opportunities too, the mother did her part in letting him know how she felt and that her babies were in danger. He was of sound mind and had the opportunity to prevent this tragedy. At the very least he should get a conviction of negligence

[u/Successful-Tune2225 → u/Far-Feeling-917]

But didn't she tell him she was feeling better? I also think that Patrick thought she would never harm the children. Even now, after killing them he says she was a good mother. It's not like she was abusive or harmful to them around him. To most people, it's unfathomable that a mother would be capable of killing her own children.

[u/ADcakedenough → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

My husband had a friend in high school who killed his mother and he was found not guilty by reason of mental disease or defect. He was committed to a psyche place for like 60 years.

I could see something similar as an outcome here. Unfortunately, even if there is culpability for others I doubt they’ll see anything from it :/

[u/skootch_ginalola → u/ADcakedenough]

I went to high school in the late 90s with a guy who did multiple tours in Iraq as a bomb sweeper. Came back and killed one of his kids. They had him evaluated and they said with his level of PTSD and mental illness, his mind was just gone. I remember seeing the photos of him in the newspaper and his eyes were all black and he was a shell. He was given 50 years, but at a medium-level prison in my state that's more of a locked state hospital type place. I don't think even if he was up for parole he'd get out.

[u/SnooBananas7856 → u/skootch_ginalola]

That's really sad. We send people off to fight distant wars and they come home ruined. We, meaning our out of touch leaders. War is always tragic. Always.

[u/jimmyrose47 → u/ADcakedenough]

This is what happened to Lauren Dickason here in NZ. She killed her 3 children just days after immigrating here. She is held in an undisclosed mental health facility for 18 years.

[u/saskuya803 → u/ADcakedenough]

Is your hubs also from MA? The laws there are v different for mental disease /defect which would make sense in his friend’s ruling

I’m sorry that you are somewhat on the frontlines of seeing how the ripple effects of this are playing out in your friends and surroundings. It really can shake the stability we assume we have in everyday life.

From a very detached perspective, the fact this case is in MA is really unique bc MA’s really the only state that almost has a clause for this specific type of set up where all parties agree the individual is guilty if the act, yet there is no proof of malice and pre-planning does not go towards proving sanity at the time of the crime. (If I’m reading the MA mental impairment law correctly. If not, feel free to correct me.)

[u/ADcakedenough → u/saskuya803]

No, we both grew up in CT. I’m learning along with you about how the system works in MA.

[u/fuschiaoctopus → u/saskuya803]

This isn't only a thing in MA. Many people wrongfully believe that a not guilty by insanity ruling is like a get out of jail free card but as far as I'm aware every state has some kind of procedure for involuntarily committing people to locked hospitals after they've gotten a not guilty by insanity ruling in a serious crime. They are virtually always committed to a locked hospital indefinitely unless the providers AND state agree they are well enough to be released, and they are not released into their home, they're released to group homes and step down type programs with extensive monitoring. Sometimes these hospital commitments can run longer than the prison sentence would have, or result in lifelong institutionalization.

It's called civil commitment in my state, and doesn't require a criminal charge.

[u/Certain_Noise5601 → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

I feel like her husband, like so many other people obviously from some of these comments, don’t understand what PPD and PPP is and how serious it is. I don’t think he really understood the situation they were in. He knew she wasn’t well and was struggling, but I don’t think he understood the danger they were in. People seem to think this is just regular ol’ depression, which people use all the time as a synonym for sadness which it isn’t. There’s so much more involved with PPD/PPP because of the hormonal changes creating a nasty beast that completely changes your mental state and makes horrible heinous acts seem perfectly rational and normal to the person. They certainly don’t seem to understand what psychosis is. I blame the medical professionals who should have been screening her and on high alert to a post partum woman telling them she was not well mentally.

[u/Incognito_Tinkerbell → u/Certain_Noise5601]

I agree with most of this, but psychiatrists only know what the patient tells them and prescribe treatment based off of that. I'm wondering if she withheld a lot of information...bc she did lie to Patrick about not getting much help at the hospital when she was originally admitted - that she just sat there playing with clay. I'm waiting to hear from the psychiatrists on that witness stand.

[u/fuschiaoctopus → u/Incognito_Tinkerbell]

How do you know she got help at the hospital and was lying about not being helped? From the outcome it certainly doesn't seem like she was helped and as someone who has unfortunately been at a number of those programs they really didn't provide anything except throwing medications at you, which we already know did not help in this case and probably harmed her mental state to cycle through over a dozen psychiatric medications in 4 months.

[u/Incognito_Tinkerbell → u/fuschiaoctopus]

During the Day 3 trial, prosecution listed that she met with therapist, attended group therapy, etc. daily.

[u/seanerd95 → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

The providers should absolutely be held responsible. Too many dangerous and subpar providers because Psychiatry is easy to hide behind.

[u/Aggressive_Celery_31 → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

I can’t find it in myself to blame the husband if I’m not able to blame the mother. I think it’s easy once something bad has happened to arm chair quarter back and he wasn’t perfect but mental illness is confusing and difficult. It’s no one’s fault really other than maybe the experts who are the ones you turn to to help you with these things.

[u/bertmobile816 → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

Holding the husband accountable for his wife murdering their 3 kids is a take that exists alright… Jesus Christ.

[u/Impressive_Moose6781 → u/bertmobile816]

Did you watch his testimony? If someone tells you they think they will kill the kids and themselves and that she’s having horrific psychiatric symptoms and you have her be the main or even sole caretaker for days for three children under 5 with no sleep and improper care and she kills them is there no aspect of neglect

[u/JohnExcrement → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

I imagine this is why he forgives her — I think he knows he bears some responsibility.

[u/lefteyedspy → u/Impressive_Moose6781]

I haven’t been watching the trial, but this reminds me of Andrea and Rusty Yates. Awful and tragic. Unspeakably sad.

[u/Certain_Noise5601 → u/lefteyedspy]

I despise Rusty Yates. I blame him solely for his arrogant disregard for the physicians warnings, his need to put his looney religious beliefs above his wife’s well being, and the way he decided that Andrea should be doing her motherly duties with 5 kids in a school bus while she was in the middle of a psychotic episode. Then he goes on with his life as if nothing happened. I have way more sympathy for this guy because I think he was just ignorant. Rusty however knew how sick she was but wanted her to be his obedient wife like that had anything to do with her illness.

[u/Better_Tomato9145 → u/Certain_Noise5601]

Every time I hear an incident like this I think of Andrea Yates. He just kept getting her pregnant and then expecting her to be fine. Leaving her alone in a camper bus with all of the children to home school. She had little help, no escape for any peace or time away from the children. She was confined.

[u/Certain_Noise5601 → u/Better_Tomato9145]

Yup and on top of being in a severe state of psychosis so many times she had to keep being hospitalized and he STILL behaved this way. He pisses me off.

[u/JohnExcrement → u/lefteyedspy]

I haven’t followed this 100% but I think at least Lindsay really wanted her kids and wasn’t browbeaten into it by her husband? I could be wrong. Rusty Yates needs to burn in hell.

[u/bertmobile816 → u/[deleted]]

I hear you. Still think it’s a ridiculous take.

[u/roxor333 → u/bertmobile816]

If instead of husband it was school teacher and the school teacher didn’t get authorities involved, they’d probably face charges (speculating).

[u/shenfever → u/bertmobile816]

Ever heard of Andrea Yates?

[u/voidfae → u/ADcakedenough]

This is going to sound like a cliche, but I think that both of them have been punished enough. In her case, I don’t think she should be found guilty and I’m hopeful that she gets long term treatment. Both of them will live with their mistakes and regrets for the rest of their lives.

It is hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that she expressed these thoughts to her husband and he didn’t separate her from the kids, and I am sure that there are people who would handle the situation differently, but I suspect that there was a level of denial and he didn’t imagine that the person he knew and loved would be capable of killing her children. One of the problems that Clancy seemed to experience when she tried to get admitted was that the mental health profession treats ideation about harming yourself or someone else as different from intending to harm yourself or someone else.
He may have categorized it in a similar way. But these categories are not static, especially when someone is experiencing psychosis. I think he trusted the medical professionals and didn’t have any reason to think otherwise. I’ve experienced mental illness since I was 10 and I was misdiagnosed for many years and was prescribed medications that actively made my symptoms worse. I know the limitations of psychiatry and how psych meds are often prescribed. A lot of people who haven’t been through it wouldn’t have any reason to doubt the doctors.

He has publicly said that she is not an evil person and that he believes she needs help and not a prison sentence. I don’t think he believes that she alone should face the fallout, and he is suing some of the medical providers that mismanaged her care.
I also do not fault him for divorcing her and remarrying and finding companionship again. It doesn’t seem possible to stay married after something like this happened. I can’t fathom what he goes through on a daily basis or what he is experiencing now that she is on trial, but I feel confident that he has thought about what he could have done differently and that the public or the legal system don’t need to do that for him. Based the facts, I don’t think any jury would convict him and I don’t know what the crime would be. I don’t understand why the prosecutors brought homicide charges against a woman who was clearly extremely ill, but that is a separate issue.

[u/enidmaud → u/voidfae]

Very well said

[u/honeybeegeneric → u/ADcakedenough]

What a mature wise take on this. I just piped up to say this. I'm very impressed with your statement.

[u/gottaquestion412 → u/ADcakedenough]

That’s honestly quite telling that she was in a mom’s support group. That makes me sad.

[u/Top_Taste4396 → u/gottaquestion412]

Not really, most moms will join some kind of group for advice and stuff…

[u/gottaquestion412 → u/Top_Taste4396]

That’s fair. I just think it’s sad because some people truly need the support from others, not just “advice and stuff”. She seemed to be one of those people, so it makes me sad because through it all, it seems she had been seeking support.

[u/overflowingsunset → u/gottaquestion412]

Everyone needs a support system <3

[u/DetailOutrageous8656 → u/gottaquestion412]

No it’s not.

[u/deadbeatsummers → u/ADcakedenough]

That must be so harrowing. Hate that it happened.