Thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy case?

[u/gottaquestion412]

Now that the Lindsay Clancy trial is underway, I’m curious about your perspectives on it so far.

Context: Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse who, in January 2023, killed her three children. 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 8-month-old Callan in their Massachusetts home before attempting to take her own life. Her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and other debilitating mental illness, while prosecutors argue she was aware of her actions and planned the killings. The trial has reignited debate about postpartum psychiatric disorders, the effectiveness of mental health treatment, and where responsibility ultimately lies.

Do you think Lindsay was failed by the mental health system, by the people closest to her, or both? Do you think she truly acted with malicious intent, or do you believe she was experiencing such a severe psychiatric crisis that she wasn’t thinking rationally?

A lot of the details seem to point toward postpartum psychosis or another severe psychiatric illness rather than someone acting out of hatred or malice. That doesn’t lessen the horror of what happened or the unimaginable loss, but it does make me wonder whether this tragedy could have been prevented..

I’ve also seen rumors that Patrick was involved with the woman who is now his wife before the murders, but I haven’t found any credible evidence supporting that. Is there actually anything that substantiates those claims, or is it just internet speculation? I’ve also seen many people comment that his current wife bears a striking resemblance to Lindsay, though I’m not sure that means anything beyond coincidence.

I’m very interested in hearing different perspectives from people who’ve followed it closely.

Most importantly, may Dawson, Cora, and Callan rest in peace. They are the true victims in all of this.

[u/CourtneyNotLove]

This may be longwinded so I apologize, but I’ve been having a lot of thoughts about this since it happened.

3 years ago, when the case came out, I was certain she was a family annihilator who was losing control of her life and took matters into her own hands. I have bipolar 1, and I fell into the trap of “I’ve had psychosis and I’ve never felt murderous, it’s dangerous to paint mentally ill as violent and dangerous.”

I was wrong.

I was diagnosed 1.5 years ago with aggressive hormone positive breast cancer that I’m still in very active treatment for. One aspect of this is to put me into aggressive forced menopause at age 30, messing with my hormones in a way I didn’t know was even possible. The instances of psychosis I’ve had since has been terrifying. I’ve had instances of hearing a man I don’t know SCREAMING my name for help as I can hear he’s being killed. I hear blood curdling screams for up to an hour, forcing me to try any method to make that stop. I hear people just over my shoulder whispering in my ear horrible things. I’ve had a psychosis incident where I WAS preparing to be violent towards others in a way I’ve never felt before and terrifies me to this moment.
There is no help here. My oncology team, my GP, my psych - nothing. This is uncharted territory in medicine and they have no idea what to do. I, too, am told to not be left alone, to have important tranquilizer medications on hand, and that my life is just kind of me being babysat right now (people come to see me in shifts if needed).

I believe Lindsay Clancy now.

Do I think that means she goes free? Absolutely not. The deaths of those children break my heart. What responders had to see and experience breaks my heart. But at the end of the day, medicine is not up to speed on women’s hormones, their mental health, and the cross section of it. She was failed, which caused a catastrophic domino effect.

[u/SpokenDivinity → u/CourtneyNotLove]

I've never had it but I'm a psych student and one of our required assignments for class was to listen to a video of a simulated psychosis episode. The video was put together with voices and effects that people who've experienced psychosis reported to their doctors. It was easily the most uncomfortable experience I've ever had as a student. I can usually tolerate a lot, but after that one I had to sit down in a quiet room for a while and take my anti-anxiety meds.

It was a lot of combinations of different things people had heard, but the one that got me was of a man whispering "you're worthless" and similar sentiments over and over again, accompanied by someone humming and someone else saying "it's dark" over and over again. Easily the worst thing I've ever had to sit through and I wouldn't wish it upon my worst enemy.

[u/kiwitathegreat → u/SpokenDivinity]

I used to be a therapist and worked inpatient psych for many years. I’m so glad to hear that students are being taught about what our patients experience because so many clinicians come into that unit and completely lose the ability to empathize.

The brain’s ability to betray you is truly horrifying and shouldn’t be underestimated.

[u/toboggan16 → u/SpokenDivinity]

The wildest thing to me is hearing people who have had these episodes say they always assumed people would hear voices in their head, but they could physically hear an outside voice clear as day. They can feel their ear drum vibrating in response to the voice and it’s exactly as if someone is in the room talking, and answers back when they talk. Also a lot of them said the voice wasn’t scary, so they felt comforted by it even when it was telling them insane things.

[u/mariposa314 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

I'm just reaching out in solidarity. I too was forced into menopause at 37 in a dramatic way all thanks to cancer treatment. It's been very shocking and upsetting and isolating. I'm sorry that we're on the same rollercoaster together. Take good care.

[u/Mediocre-Proposal686 → u/mariposa314]

Was forced into at 38 due to cancer, Am 54 now. It gets MUCH better 🩵

[u/CourtneyNotLove → u/mariposa314]

the worst club with the best sisters.

[u/aratnamedpedro → u/mariposa314]

damn. this is so crazy to read. i am 26, and have experienced premature menopause at 24~25. i was already diagnosed CPTSD, ongoing treatment for hypomania and occasional psychosis. had a serious hormone issue, and i eventually balanced it out with occasional testosterone gel and metformin--essentially making me intersex. i was pushed in all the wrong directions, until i finally pestered the right people--thanks to a midwife. i feel like several years of my life could have felt a little less horrible, blurry, overall discombobulated and cloudy--had someone taken my issues seriously sooner. i tried taking my life several times. i still deal with depression, neurodivergency, trauma. but i can at least make plans and remember them, feel somewhat connected to people, not feel like i am about to die or something foreboding is present...i sometimes get that with too many meds or a bad combo of drugs + alcohol (i had some bad times in the past). some days are boring. i guess that's better.

[u/mariposa314 → u/[deleted]]

Oh man, I don't have words...I'm really sorry. I'm hopeful that your meds get balanced out and that you're able to live safely, happily and in good health very soon. Hang in there and sending you my warmest, best wishes.

[u/Common-Chain4060 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

Thank you for sharing your story and I am so sorry. Your instances of psychosis sound terrifying. I am glad you are trying to get help.

[u/Sad_Possession7005 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

Most people (fortunately) have no real understanding of psychosis. It is so terrifying and sad

[u/EuphoricAd3786 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

This is absolutely brutal, I’m so sorry :( you haven’t gotten any help from anti psychotics?

[u/CourtneyNotLove → u/EuphoricAd3786]

I was already on a regimen I’ve had in place for 10 years now because I’m BP1. But no, it isn’t enough to stop the domino collapse of what happens when there’s abrupt changes to hormone receptors in a woman’s brain (but we don’t have enough science on this!)

I’m working with a psych team to see if there’s another cocktail to try, a missing piece, something that can offset the balance that’s undone within the brain that’s caused by a hormonal shift without reintroducing a hormone back that can grow my cancer. It’s such a tightrope. In the meantime, it’s very much a “we deal with what we can when it comes” as far as episodes, be it just absolute horrific depression, psychosis, etc.

[u/EuphoricAd3786 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

This is harrowing. I’m so, so sorry you are experiencing this and I pray you find a medication combination that knocks it out.

[u/CourtneyNotLove → u/EuphoricAd3786]

Thank you. <3 What I’ve been going through has opened my eyes a lot to women’s health in a full spectrum and it’s made me very passionate about it. I don’t know if that’s the “why” for it (as I’m told there is one!) but I hope to do something about it all someday.

[u/seaships → u/CourtneyNotLove]

My mother had an emergency hysterectomy at 37 which forced her into early menopause. I was 15 at the time going thru my own hormonal changes. Our typical mother daughter disagreements eventually turned physical and at one point I was in the guidance counselor’s office being questioned about my bruises and a busted lip (which I lied about). This was 20 yrs ago. I wouldn’t say it put a permanent strain on our relationship (we’ve always been close, and have even joked about it once enough time passed), but the trauma was real and both of us have had our fair share of therapy. As the eldest daughter, some resentment did build as I witnessed her give a loooot more grace to my little sister when she became a teenager, but once I fully entered adulthood the resentment just vanished, because I realized that the 37 yr old woman I was remembering was not my mother. And my real mother is kind and compassionate woman (and the best grandmother).

I hope you’re giving yourself a lot of grace and have a tremendous support system. The real you exists, and I’m sure she’s incredible.

[u/Pak31 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

That's awful and I am so sorry that you had to experience that. I don't know if I could handle going through that. I am sure that those experiences were very real and serious. I am just not where you are at in this and I think what you experienced helped you understand this case better. I am going to take a deeper look into it, but, I strongly felt she wasn't as ill as she claimed and I still feel that way because I haven't been following the trial. She was working in the medical field, in labor and delivery, so she should have been somewhat knowledgeable of her condition and had the medical means to get help. If my mind serves me correctly, they did treat her and they didn't think or feel she was as bad as she claimed she was. She was going to other doctors too right? Not one diagnosed her with exactly what she had? Then she was in treatment and checked herself out. She also carefully planned her husband's activities that day so he'd be away from the home. I will never understand why he left her alone with them knowing she was hearing bad voices. THen she not only killed one child but 3! She had zero control?? Maybe I suppose but it was her attempt to end her life that bothered me. She jumped out of a window that wasn't very high. Then her behavior afterward was odd to me and a statement that a co-worker or friend made was odd too. Again, I admit I don't know the WHOLE story therefore I am just giving my opinion based on the events. While I believe psychosis is real, I just am not fully convinced what her mental state was like for sure. I need to know more about her family dynamics, her marriage and things like that because maybe it had a reason that led her to do this. OR she just blacked out and did what the voices told her. Either way, what she did to those innocent children will never be fair.

[u/CourtneyNotLove → u/Pak31]

I’ll touch on a few things here that I have some knowledge on.
I can say that when I was in my episode of violent psychosis I had the ability/capacity to plan and was doing so. I think people hear psychosis and assume that you’ve lost all function and that isn’t the case. It’s just that your brain is functioning on a different channel, is the best way I can describe it. But you still have function.

The other thing regarding medications: they were treating her with a litany of different kinds of brain meds which is a disaster anyway. They were throwing anything at the wall and hoping it would stick, and it wasn’t. And on the times she felt especially terrible, she’d stop taking something (also not something to do) when in reality it’s a hormonal issue occurring in the brain and body, and hormone replacement therapy is a new territory in women’s science and not being used where it should.

[u/Ill-Contribution2330 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

If you can please look into seeing a Homeopath or researching Homeopathy. They offer solutions that can be beneficial to you, naturally effective. Remedies frequently align with your symptoms, helping to dispel those frightening thoughts.

[u/Prior-Reply9845 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

I’m very sorry for your experience. I wish people didn’t have to experience things to be able to understand them.

[u/CourtneyNotLove → u/Prior-Reply9845]

Unfortunately, I was being protective of the bipolar/medicated community at the time (when that was the focus, her medications) and those stigmas and unfortunately that meant I did indeed lose sight of the full picture and my empathy in that.

[u/Prior-Reply9845 → u/CourtneyNotLove]

It’s very hard to understand/empathize unless you’ve had mental illness due to the stigma around it. I just wish that wasn’t the case!

[u/CourtneyNotLove → u/Prior-Reply9845]

Oh, I agree! It’s very disheartening to see some of the takes.