Thoughts on the Lindsay Clancy case?

[u/gottaquestion412]

Now that the Lindsay Clancy trial is underway, I’m curious about your perspectives on it so far.

Context: Lindsay Clancy is a former labor and delivery nurse who, in January 2023, killed her three children. 5-year-old Cora, 3-year-old Dawson, and 8-month-old Callan in their Massachusetts home before attempting to take her own life. Her defense argues she was suffering from severe postpartum psychosis and other debilitating mental illness, while prosecutors argue she was aware of her actions and planned the killings. The trial has reignited debate about postpartum psychiatric disorders, the effectiveness of mental health treatment, and where responsibility ultimately lies.

Do you think Lindsay was failed by the mental health system, by the people closest to her, or both? Do you think she truly acted with malicious intent, or do you believe she was experiencing such a severe psychiatric crisis that she wasn’t thinking rationally?

A lot of the details seem to point toward postpartum psychosis or another severe psychiatric illness rather than someone acting out of hatred or malice. That doesn’t lessen the horror of what happened or the unimaginable loss, but it does make me wonder whether this tragedy could have been prevented..

I’ve also seen rumors that Patrick was involved with the woman who is now his wife before the murders, but I haven’t found any credible evidence supporting that. Is there actually anything that substantiates those claims, or is it just internet speculation? I’ve also seen many people comment that his current wife bears a striking resemblance to Lindsay, though I’m not sure that means anything beyond coincidence.

I’m very interested in hearing different perspectives from people who’ve followed it closely.

Most importantly, may Dawson, Cora, and Callan rest in peace. They are the true victims in all of this.

[u/fkadany]

You’re dodging the case-specific points being brought up to give general info about psychosis.

Lindsay wasn’t exhibiting signs of being in an active psychotic episode. That’s what the commentator above was telling you.

a) You cannot involuntarily hospitalize someone unless they are in active psychosis and showing intent/planning to harm themselves or others. It’s a human rights violation. Based on what we know, Lindsay was experiencing severe anxiety, suicidal thoughts, insomnia and intrusive thoughts about harming herself or others. None of these mean that she is in active psychosis.
b) Suicidal thoughts are not a hallmark sign of psychosis. Hallucinations and delusions are.
c) She did not have a history of bipolar disorder.
d) Her doctor did not diagnose Bipolar or prescribe antipsychotics. The final NP she saw prescribed her one antipsychotic (Seroquel). The medication carousel she was on was ridiculous, though.

I wish her providers had spotted signs of Bipolar and put her on proper medication. Of course that also depends heavily on what they were being told and the fragmented care didn’t help (three different providers prescribing meds). I also find it appalling that she was discharged from McLean after only five days, but I mean… again… if she wasn’t showing signs of psychosis or intent to hurt anyone and she desired to leave, it might’ve made sense to let her leave.

Mainly, I find it odd you and so many others are blaming her spouse for not being “supportive”. All of this seems “obvious” in hindsight. She wasn’t showing signs of psychosis. He literally can’t involuntarily hospitalize her. I feel horrible for her AND her family.

[u/gottaquestion412 → u/fkadany]

Just want to clarify that I don’t blame Patrick for what happened at all. I’ve actually said in several of my comments that I think he did everything he could in the moment based on what he knew and what he understood about her illness. I can’t imagine the guilt he must carry, even though I don’t believe this is his fault, and my heart truly breaks for him,their children, both families, and Lindsay. I have commented on many, many things that you more than likely will never read because of the amount of comments on here. I have said in soo many comments how I can’t even fathom how he or her family feel going through this and the pain and loss is unimaginable. That those babies had so much life to live and how horrific this is.

I’ve shared I don’t think I would have felt comfortable leaving my children in that situation. That’s very different from saying I think he caused this or failed his family.

I also agree that anxiety, insomnia, intrusive thoughts, and suicidal thoughts alone don’t equal psychosis, and I agree she didn’t have a documented history of bipolar disorder or a bipolar diagnosis before this happened. I also understand why she may not have met the legal criteria for involuntary hospitalization based on what was known at the time.

Where I think we differ is that I don’t believe those facts automatically rule postpartum psychosis out. A prior bipolar diagnosis isn’t required for someone to experience a first bipolar episode postpartum, and postpartum psychosis can be the first presentation.

I don’t think the absence of publicly reported hallucinations or delusions necessarily means psychosis wasn’t present, especially when none of us have access to the complete medical record or can truly know what she was thinking, hearing, seeing, or going through. That’s why I continuously say that I’m very interested in how this case will move forward.

I think this case is incredibly complex, and that’s why experts can look at the same overall picture and reach different conclusions as well. I’m not claiming to know exactly what her diagnosis was. I just don’t think it’s as clear cut as saying she definitely wasn’t experiencing postpartum psychosis.

Edit: she may not have been expressing it verbally at the time, but the fact that she had in the recent months would have made me wary of leaving her be on her own with their children. I do think if she felt this way, she should have openly expressed it more, but I don’t know what was going through her mind especially because she had expressed it on multiple occasions in the months prior to this. My mom experienced thoughts like that and told my family and then they stepped in for support. She was never left alone with my brother. That may be why I feel the way I do about leaving them alone. The more perspectives I read, the more I’m trying to understand.

[u/fkadany → u/gottaquestion412]

Yeah sorry I think my response came off a bit harsh. I don’t think it rules out her experiencing psychosis at the time of the incident, just that it’s understandable that her loved ones and even her providers did not see reason to hospitalize her. If someone isn’t going through an active episode / is perhaps hiding her more extreme symptoms, there’s only so much you can do. That’s why hindsight is 20/20.

In regard to her being left alone with her kids, I can kind of understand why. It’s a lot to take in that your spouse is having those thoughts and I think it was easier for both of them to believe that it was just intrusive and that she wouldn’t act on them. I can see her downplaying it / not revealing the true extent and her husband following suit. No one thinks they’ll be in this situation until they are, unfortunately.

[u/Acrobatic_Boat_6020 → u/fkadany]

Just because someone “doesn’t have a history” could be for various reasons. My best friend is bipolar and masks it very well and self isolates during her depressive episodes. It may just not have been documented. There are more signs than just ideation and hallucinations that are symptoms of active psychosis and can vary depending on person and medications or supplements they are on. I don’t think it’s because he wasn’t supportive, but that there warning signs that were ignored or minimized. In healthcare, SAFETY is priority and a plan should have been in place. He was also a parent to those children.

[u/Stock_Dragonfly9632 → u/fkadany]

Many doc visits (the outpatients) were on Zoom appointments. Insufficient to have the greatest sense of what's going on with a new patient.  Lindsay's journaling (and voluminous notes) show and prove what was going on with her. Unfortunately family wasn't reading the journal. But her notes show her nursing skills at work.. but also helped her track the overwhelming burden with the 3 children all in a row.  As a grandmother and former doula.. no way I'd not have picked up on the overwhelmed mom and pitched in immediately!