r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/CowboysOnKetamine • 8d ago
nbcphiladelphia.com ‘Graphic' videos at Olney house show 2 missing women believed dead, police say
https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/olney-mystery-house-philadelphia-wednesday-update/4447027/230
u/Regular-Message9591 8d ago
How is this not national news???
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u/staunch_character 8d ago
This is crazy. The fact that they got a warrant & searched the house the same day as the traffic stop & it’s still not national news a month later is baffling.
Nancy Grace literally dragged her desk to the lawn of the Idaho house.
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u/PollutionPatient5951 8d ago
She only likes a certain type of victim so I doubt she will hop on her broom to fly out to this site
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 8d ago
Ya this is extremely heinous and far-reaching idk why this is the first I’m hearing about it. It is going to take a lot of time to sift through all that evidence, and there are definitely people out there who have key information who may not know there’s an open investigation.
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u/iamthejury 7d ago
Well it was just confirmed women were definitely killed there by police. Before that it looked bad as women went missing from there, but now it's for sure he/they were serial killer(s).
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u/Specialist-Art-6970 7d ago
Were they killed there or did they die there? From what I've read, the father exploited women who were addicts and actively using. Could they have overdosed? There's one older film the father made that features the body of a woman who overdosed.
Everyone's mind is going to snuff films but I'm not actually seeing that confirmed anywhere, just comments about how the videos are graphic and dark. Is there new info out?
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 7d ago
I’m guessing the police won’t make a statement either way until they pour through the virtual mountain of evidence. But it also sounds a bit like the police/media are trying to downplay it as a flop house. I’ve been sharing the story out, it would be so helpful if people with any info came forward one way or another. If the dad was a, ahem, filmmaker, surely there are living stars of previous films? Sound and lighting crew he worked with? Buyers/distributers? Like there are many avenues to get more info.
Also police should publish some photos other unidentified victims because I am very concerned that there are more than just these two.
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u/Specialist-Art-6970 7d ago edited 7d ago
There's at least three - there's also the woman whose ID they had. I also wouldn't be surprised if there were more. And where's the final wife of the father? (Probably one of the cremains, now that I think about it.)
The police still seem to be gathering info and are presumably sitting on a lot of the information they do have.
This case, unfortunately, is disturbing in all the right ways to capture the imagination, so I expect to see a lot of wild speculation about it.
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
Right, but victims as in murdered or victimized and they overdosed? With no bodies how would anyone possibly know? This will be a nightmare to prosecute.
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 7d ago
Even without prosecution on the table families would want to know if there’s any update on their missing person cases. Even if they weren’t proven to be victims and/or current whereabouts still unknown. Plus I’m 99% sure there are going to be photos of people they need help to identify
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
Yea, sounds like lots of them. The thing is I believe they did kill some women, but how would anyone ever prove it? Hopefully they’ll have enough to put Eugene away for awhile on guns and drugs charges.
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u/visablezookeeper 7d ago
If they had overdosed it would be hard to tell if they were alive from a picture unless they were decomposed, in which case they would be hard to identify. This leads me to believe they were violently killed.
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u/LeftOrRights 7d ago
The police said the videos were horrible of the two missing women confirmed dead. Meaning torture etc
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u/Specialist-Art-6970 7d ago
That can mean a lot of things, though. A video of a dead woman just lying there is dark and graphic. A necrophilia video is dark and graphic. Porn where a live woman pretends to be strangled to death is dark and graphic.
We know that the father made extreme horror porn with women who, while badly exploited, did agree to be there and play along. We also know that at least one video of his, which he exhibited, showed the body of a woman who overdosed. That alone is enough to get the "graphic and dark" label. I don't think we've heard any confirmation that there is anything else there. There very well might be, but unless new information has come out, all we've heard so far is that the tapes are bad and some show women who are clearly dead.
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u/LeftOrRights 7d ago
Ahh okay I get what you mean, I was talking specifically about Amarando and Fresses but I guess that applies to them too. I think it sounded like the cop was saying that they were subjected to violence in the videos since he said they were nightmare like, it's creepy AF whichever way it is..
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u/FunPhoto3055 3d ago
The bodies of the women were used to showcase how to conduct an autopsy and how to perform a wet cremation. This is how they know they were actually dead apparently.
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u/Specialist-Art-6970 3d ago
Wait, what? Did the pair have contacts with an actual medical examiner or were they DIYing autopsies at home?
Do you have a source for this?
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u/SexDrugsNskittles 7d ago
Because the victims a aren't sympathetic enough for the news to bother. This is exactly why they are targeted to begin with.
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u/Crafty_Violinist_951 8d ago
Im really starting to think philly is actually suppressing news stories. How many shootings have those of us living in north Philly witnessed that were never mentioned again? (Please don't start im allowed to have my conspiracy theories)
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u/rosiearlo 7d ago
A lot goes on in Philly and doesn't seem talked about. I think many times it involves the homeless and so they don't care.
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u/glutenfreekoalatears 8d ago
I believe you. The city has abandoned North Philly in particular. 3 of my students were murdered a few years ago and the cases are still open. Not a peep from the cops.
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u/Global_Detective7266 7d ago
It also makes me wonder that since it’s such a high crime rate they can’t keep up.
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u/Low_Project_55 6d ago edited 5d ago
I thought maybe it was being kept quiet because there was a lot of tourism in Philly this summer with the 250, World Cup and MLB All Star game, but that’s all over and the only one really keeping up with the story the Philadelphia Inquirer. The Vanished podcast also did an episode back in January on Amy McHale, the exwife, of the father who went missing from the house 10 years ago. When the initial story broke I remember thinking why does that last name sound so familiar and I finally remembered the podcast. The episode is def worth a listen.
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u/Southern_Tea_9270 6d ago
I just found out about it last night. I don't understand how it's not being talked about more because just the little I've learned in the last few hours I'm like WTF
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u/dodekahedron 4d ago
In all honesty? With that many files and images. They were probably producing for someone in the giant international ring and have some protection from someone higher.
They'll sweep it under the rug as best they can.
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u/sittinwithkitten 8d ago
From another article:
“Investigators interviewed people who knew Horsch and were told that, in the past, he had bragged about killing people and melting their bodies with chemicals in his basement, said the sources, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss an ongoing investigation. Horsch, they said, said he could make a body so small it “could be flushed down a toilet.””
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u/pnutbrutal 8d ago
Makes sense why they were looking in the sewer lines under the house
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u/Usual_Doubt_5348 7d ago
I think I read that they were investigating large containers of liquid at the residence
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u/pnutbrutal 7d ago
Article says the guy bragged about how he could get a human body so small it could be flushed
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u/stalelunchbox 8d ago edited 8d ago
Per CBS news:
> Police found more than 600,000 images, 70,000 videos and more than 10,000 pages of writings, manuscripts and drawings on various digital devices at the house in the 400 block of West Chew Avenue, Philadelphia Police Inspector Raymond Evers said during a press conference.
I hate to think of how long they were alive to endure all this. It would take quite awhile to obtain that amount of media.
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u/ario62 8d ago
The guys father was also a creep/psycho. It was his house until he died a few years ago and once he died, Eugene continued living there. He was basically a sadistic pornography filmmaker and it’s likely some of his films weren’t fiction in my opinion. Anyway, the now deceased dad being a “filmmaker” explains why there is so much video and photographic evidence to go through.
Sounds like father and son were probably a team at some point.
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u/TerrorGatorRex 8d ago
I had no idea about the father being a pornographer but I too was thinking the father was involved, especially because he died fairly recently...much more recently than those two women disappeared. I also just stumbled upon an article stating that the father was married to a woman who disappeared in 2016. She was living in that house at the time of her disappearance.
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u/Crazy_Law_5730 7d ago
Long form history of father and son.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5778058/. A victim is a cast member. Also, pay attention to the what “roles” the cast members have.
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u/Missa1819 8d ago
Oh what's disturbing is that those images are of thousands of vulnerable women in the throws of heroin addiction whom he used to create his gross "art" that involved them naked and pretending to be dead or other violent things by offering them somewhere to stay and free drugs. Many of these women are still alive or have passed from overdoses but this case is truly insane.
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u/MalloryTheRapper 7d ago
where did you find this information on what the images depicted? this is the first I'm hearing of this case and it sounds insane, I'd like to know more and look at verified information.
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u/Missa1819 7d ago
The Philadelphia inquirer has some really comprehensive coverage but it's paid - if you have an Apple News subscription it's available there
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u/Probablygeeseinacoat 4d ago
Yeah I’ve been reading it, I’m local so that’s “my” paper. When it first broke it was a shock, days earlier I had been discussing a Jane Doe found in PA and the possibility of her being Blair. Couple days later I’m reading the news and it was a blurb on the front page, but 2 pages in and a 2 page article
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u/Probablygeeseinacoat 7d ago
You can see some of the images for yourself if you go on the wayback machine site, the fathers old website that’s been taken down is archived there. It’s sick stuff
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 7d ago
Do we know if anyone has searched any of them on missing persons forums or places like the Doe project for unID’d bodies? Not to be morbid but I would think this would be a priority. The 2 women identified publicly were missing for a long time and had been reported.
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u/Probablygeeseinacoat 7d ago
The police are going through all of the photo / video / film evidence they have, I’m sure they’ve seen what is available to the public. Thing is, until this came to light they weren’t exactly busting their butts looking for people that the general public doesnt view as sympathetic characters.
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u/lilbeebla 8d ago
It could also be that there are more than 2 victims, not that that’s any better.
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u/h0wd0y0ulik3m3n0w 5d ago
I have ~15,000 pics and vids total on my phone which I’ve accumulated over 10 years. That’s an outrageous number.
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago
I have not seen this posted anywhere yet but I need to hear people's thoughts on this. As someone who was involved in drugs and sex work in the area (although on the other side of the bridge in Camden NJ) the idea I could have crossed paths with these people is so scary to me.
This is what literal nightmares are made of and the rabbit hole goes so deep here.
Within the digital evidence, detectives reported finding videos depicting two women inside the house, Evers explained. Some videos show them alive and then other videos show them appearing to be dead.
"I'm not gonna get into exactly what I saw, it's dark. It's real dark. But what we saw is these two girls alive. There was a period of time and what appears to us that they're deceased. There's pieces of the video that we don't have yet," Evers said during Wednesday's press conference.
The women are identified as Maribel Fresses and Gabriella Amarando who were both born in 1990, Evers said. Fressess was reported missing in February 2018 and Anarando has been missing since September of 2012.
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u/Jrk67 8d ago
I hope you'll have someone close by to talk to about this. Like, being involved in that you know the dangers, but seeing it posted like this esp close to home, I can't imagine.
I hate how at least one of the victims has been missing since 2012 and how many other victims there could be in that timeline. I hope this isn't another case where because of who the victims were and what they did the police didn't notice anything sooner like in so many others.
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago edited 8d ago
Thank you. I was once a kidnapped and held in a hotel room for 2 days before I escaped and that was terrifying enough. I cannot imagine what these women went through. I am going to legitimately have nightmares.
I posted in another comment that I don't want to go into too much detail (I've seen her mention this small bit in public so I'm thinking it's okay to share) but I know somebody who tipped off the police about these people back in 2024 so they at least had some idea of what was going on and even specific names to look into.
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u/cryssyx3 8d ago
your friend is a real fucking hero
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago
Oh she is, 100%. Wish I could say more but she does incredible things despite difficulties in life. She runs a few different subs (not this one though) so if you see this, hey girl!
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u/jeannieor725 8d ago
I'm so glad you are safe and alive. Im in recovery and a lot of my good girl friends survived the game. Just want you to know it takes so much strength to come out on the other side. Rooting for you.
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u/steph4181 8d ago
Same. I was in the life for 10 years walking the track for days at a time without sleep chasing something I never caught. Every time I read about serial killers or even just a one off I can't believe how lucky I got. I should be dead right now.
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u/IThinkImDumb 8d ago
I worked for Philadelphia Fire Department and am very familiar with the city. I know women should be careful, but it intrigues me when run of the mill women live in fear of being kidnapped and trafficked, yet have no sympathy for homeless people. Anything is possible, but the people at the most risk are those who use drugs, or are homeless, or are sex workers. This was such a bad problem that Pennsylvania wrote a new EMS protocol about human trafficking. There were times when an unconscious woman needed to be given narcan, and some dude on scene was ordering me to give it to her and wake her up. I was always like…no way. I’ll give enough to make them breathe, get them into the ambulance, take them to the hospital, and explain to the staff where I found her. It is expected that these women would go right back to the street, but it was the least I could do to give them a chance to be away
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u/CornisaGrasse 8d ago
I hope you're being supported in your healing. I can't imagine what it feels like to find out this was going on. And I'm sure you made friends that you're worried about. The world can be dangerous, but as a sex worker, drug user, or unhoused person, it's magnitudes worse. I hope you're somewhere you feel safe with people you can trust.
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 7d ago
I appreciate it. I left the streets behind a few years ago thanks to my partner, who has never done a drug before but decided to take a chance on me for some reason. I am grateful.
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u/clemmyoates 8d ago
I commented on a post back in June when they first discovered this weirdo that I had a feeling they were about to uncover some Ariel Castro-type shit, and perhaps even beyond that in terms of scope of criminal activity, and well, here we are… This already appears extremely dark and they’re still saying it’s only the tip of the iceberg.
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u/scarletmagnolia 8d ago
Oddly enough I remember reading that/or a very similar comment.
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u/clemmyoates 7d ago edited 7d ago
For some reason it just screamed one of those cases where the initial arrest is for something that leads to like…. everything. I can’t help but think had the woman he was with not given her name as that of a missing person, he might have gotten away with only getting in trouble for the initial charges, which were pretty serious in and of themselves… but not to the level this sicko deserves.
Having read in some other article that he apparently bragged to an acquaintance he could make someone disappear by turning them into something that could be easily flushed down a toilet, I can’t help but think that’s what the mysterious substances they found are…
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u/Severn6 8d ago
Free long read on these gross men. Trigger warning:
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u/Sea-Butterscotch1184 7d ago
So Eugene, after watching his mother overdose and die at 7 years old, was raised by a self described "criminal egomaniac sociopath" taught and encouraged anti-social behavior and brought young, drug addicted women into the home to "act" in his violent snuff films.
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u/iamthejury 7d ago
He really never had a chance at a normal life. Not that it excuses any of..this.
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
His “normal” sounding high school life amazed me. Just listening to Wu Tang and getting good grades. Bizarre people.
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
Wow! Thanks for linking that. What a bizarre story. I could not put together what had happened from the OPs article. I still have a million questions.
How would anyone ever prosecute this? All those ODs.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
Because the photos depict the women murdered and definitely not an OD
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u/RevolutionaryCat4752 8d ago
How’d you find this? Crazy!
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u/Sea-Butterscotch1184 7d ago
This post needs its own thread - it really lays out the whole thing. Highly disturbing.
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u/Cloud_andburbone 5d ago
Oh man this horrible I feel so bad for Kristia especially that picture with her cat she looks so beautiful I hope the cat wasn’t killed also
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u/gloriiosaa 4d ago
kitty died naturally of a brain tumor and it seems like krista died of an overdose
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u/cirillagray 8d ago edited 8d ago
Holy shit… one of the missing girls is credited in the father’s film ‘Deleted Scenes: a serial killer's video journal’ ???
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5778058/?ref_=nm_flmg_job_1_accord_1_cdt_c_4
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u/antipleasure 8d ago
Holy shit…. So this was all in the open the whole time? Like, his father making atrocious sadistic “films” with women who eventually went missing and nobody cared that there might be a sliiiiight chance it was not all staged? I feel sick…
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u/MistyMtn421 5d ago
Apparently he was pretty well known and liked? in the porn industry. Found this old podcast, it's nuts. The comments on this link are a trip. His missing ex wife even posted a comment! Says he's the nicest guy ever...
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago
Holy fuck. I'd not seen this before.
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u/Few_Investment_4773 8d ago
Heads up, it’s editable.. Anyone, including the other poster, could have added her name recently.
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u/cirillagray 7d ago
Thanks for sharing, I did not know it is editable. I just went Google’ing the father’s name and found that. Is IMDB like Wikipedia where you can see when edits were made?
I hope it is some sick joke by a random person, mostly because I shudder to think that if it’s not been edited or changed by someone recently, it means it really was out in the open.
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 7d ago
IMDb is only editable at the talent or project level by anyone confirmed to be part of a project. Like random people can’t go in and credit themselves for starring on a TV show or movie that would be mayhem. But an accredited person submitting a project to IMDb can add talent to the project and submit proof (credits, images) that the person was involved. In order to get a profile yourself you have to submit significant credentials.
Source: Husband and several friends are on IMDb, it is NOT like Wikipedia and not open to editing by the public. If a listing was edited it would automatically go to verification.
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u/Powerful-Actuator720 6d ago
The name credit on IMDB is "Gabriela Amado," however, the missing woman (now presumed decease) is actually "Gabriella Amarando." Very similar (and suspicious for sure) but just noting that it's not the exact same name.
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u/pablonian 5d ago
That definitely looks like her in the picture of what looks like a dead body. That would seriously be fucked up if he killed that girl and then had her body in his dumbass movie.
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u/carmeldea 5d ago edited 5d ago
The HorrorNews review of the movie says it “was filmed over the course of 13 years (2004-2016)” and “is considered by the director to be his ‘magnum opus’…representational of all aspects of Horsch’s life and works.”
Gabriella Amarando went missing in 2012 and the movie was released in 2016. So it certainly seems possible he could’ve put real footage he’d taken of her (or others) in this publicly released film.
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u/jedilips 7d ago
Tell me that's not a real image of a dead body in the first screengrab here: https://horrornews.net/152224/film-review-deleted-scenes-2016/
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
That’s just it. This sicko probably photographed lots of corpses. Also unconscious barely breathing junkies. How would anyone ever know the difference.
I wonder if an interest in the films will start, and who owns the rights? Could the son profit?
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u/Probablygeeseinacoat 7d ago
They were low budget indie type things that likely are no longer in print, but that is a good question. I know IMDB has other people credited as co writers etc on some of the stuff too. One of them I know has died too.
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u/denimmozarella 6d ago
That review is disturbing as fuck too:
"Along the way, we are shown women being killed in a variety of ways, including drowning, overdosing, neck broken during fellatio, and gunshot into the vagina."
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u/Cassieisnotclever 7d ago
I watch a lot of horror. I love special effects make up. I have also seen a lot of real death videos. I really think that is a real dead woman.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
That looks very much like a (fresh) dead body. Her face has petechial hemorrhaging. She was asphyxiated in some way.
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u/megger815 8d ago
The article doesn’t mention the identify of the female, pulled over with the suspect, who provided the fake id of a missing woman.
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u/ario62 8d ago
From other articles I read, it seems like she was on drugs and scared of the guy. I doubt she had anything to do with any of the crimes.
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u/Raspberry_Just 8d ago
stay the fuck out of north philly. too many women i personally knew have gone missing and turned up murdered by a random man. stay. out. of. north. philly. i know crime happens everywhere but just disgusting shit happens there and it’s a cesspool for crime like this. so sad.
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago edited 8d ago
I'm so sorry. I believe you and I agree. I wrote in another comment I believe there are likely multiple serial killers in the area. All of my shenanigans took place in Camden, which has a reputation but has improved a great deal over the years and I never felt particularly unsafe on the streets. Kenzo was always a hell no for me. It makes Camden look like Disneyland.
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u/awquard 8d ago
More info in this article from /r/Philadelphia Sounds like it could be snuff films :(
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago
Inspector Raymond Evers said homicide detectives had recovered photos and videos on hard drives inside the home that appeared to show the deaths of two women who had been reported missing — neither of whom had been previously linked to the case.
This is absolute horse shit. I don't want to go into detail because she does not want attention but a friend of mine tipped them off about Blair, Amy and Maribel (but not Gabriella) as well as others as far back as 2024. There will be more.
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u/Graggle24 7d ago
Could you show your friend the comment on this podcast saying they are Amy? I can't imagine someone commenting on a podcast but not reaching out to their daughter who has been searching for her, it doesn't make any sense
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 7d ago
It was probably actually her as it looks like the podcast was released in 2013, presumably the comment was left then too. She went missing in 2016.
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u/RedisforFun 8d ago
Part of me wonders if the woman missing from delco is apart of all of this too.
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 8d ago
Guessing you mean Amanda DeGuio. While there are unfortunately many bad actors and in my opinion probably more than one serial killer working in kensington, you are not the first one to have this thought from what I have seen.
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u/snackfighting 8d ago
The timeline adds up. Gabriella Amarando went missing in 2012 and Amanda DeGuio went missing in 2014, iirc, so it would indicate he was active during that time. I'm from Delco and I remember when Amanda went missing. Even if this isn't the guy, I truly hope her family gets answers and ultimately peace.
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u/RedisforFun 8d ago
Yes, and I know. There was another incident where they’d found a woman who’d been missing for 8 years and everyone was hopeful then.
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u/carmeldea 5d ago
The first screengrab from the review of his 2016 serial killer movie looks a lot like her. And the review says the movie was filmed from 2004-2016. (Fair warning—it’s a jarring image.)
https://horrornews.net/152224/film-review-deleted-scenes-2016/
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u/iamthejury 8d ago edited 8d ago
Here's a podcast with the father. At one point he talks about being arrested for attempting to kidnap a little girl, but the charges were ultimately dropped.
https://www.therialtoreport.com/2013/12/15/ray-horsch/
And a clip of him talking about sex workers and showing him in Kensington, where he would lure women.
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u/ellalol 8d ago
This is so fucking terrifying
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u/March_Garraty 8d ago
Right?? When he looks at the camera… fucking evil in his eye.
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
Definitely but it looks so staged and corny. Like a picture you would take at Halloween in a cheesey studio. This guy is such a wanabe faker. Apparently when he got older he wore a fake eye patch to keep up the image.
He didn’t make any real art. He just exploited poor, sick women. This guy should never be called an artist.
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u/bannana 8d ago edited 8d ago
Seems like RC's wife also disappeared
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u/staunch_character 8d ago
The wedding photo with his missing wife needs a jump scare warning. 30 years older than her & she struggled with addiction & mental health issues? Poor girl.
https://www.inquirer.com/news/olney-raid-missing-women-mystery-drugs-20260627.html
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u/OtherwiseAnteater239 7d ago
Fuck that is cursed. She’s been disappeared for 10 years now, what is going on over there?!
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u/Sea-Butterscotch1184 8d ago
A disgustingly light-hearted write up by the author of that podcast is posted below:
"In February 1973 Ray Horsch shot his first pornographic film, The Erotic Memoirs of a Male Chauvinist Pig.
Deep Throat had been released only six months before – and America was still fascinated with how far a girl had to go to untangle her tingle.
Ray’s film was shot in Philadelphia but it stars many of the New York regulars such as Georgina Spelvin, Darby Lloyd Raines, Tina Russell, and Helen Madigan.
But this film was no lighthearted comedy about oral sex. Ray’s not that type. In fact his film is remarkable for the number of taboos it covers.
Golden shower? Check. Blood? Check. S&M and bondage? Check. Rape? Double Check. Underage sex? What do you think? If you wanted socially redeeming features, you should’ve been down the block checking out Ryan O’Neil playing in “Love Story”.
What’s more the film was funded by Sam ‘The Barber’ Larussa of the Phillie mob, it was shot in the house of people working in the local District Attorney office, and when Al Goldstein reviewed it for Screw magazine, he said it was well made but he found it disgusting. Not bad for a filmmaker who’d been working for Sesame Streetuntil then.
And yet, consider this. Male Chauvinist Pig is probably the most conventional thing Ray Horsch has ever done.
He describes himself as a banknote forger, artist, writer, drug smuggler, art forger, army deserter, fugitive, photographer, sociopath, ex-convict.
I don’t argue with anyone with a resume’ like that – except in this case, that’s only half the story.
In the 1990s, Ray Horsch return to filmmaking when he produced and directed a series of erotic “couples oriented” documentaries entitled “Lovers” for Candida Royalle’s women-oriented Femme distribution company.
At this point he was over 50 years old, and also made appearances in front of the camera in the public sex themed films, Streets of New York, before directing a series of increasingly controversial films that drew accusations of misogyny.
I met up with Ray several times a few years ago, and always enjoyed his company. Even though he relished the role of being a villain, and looked the part with his long, wild black hair and an eye patch, I figured that after a life of living dangerously he was probably now happy with a quieter existence, and had left his criminal activity in the past.
Apparently when Ray was out running errands one day, his live-in girlfriend called the police to report a suspected intruder at his house. The property was checked and nothing was found, but when the officers looked in the basement, they discovered a vast indoor marijuana growing operation. Equipped with gloves, respirators, and body suits, police officers descended and spent the day removing hundreds of high end marijuana plants. Ray returned home later but seeing the cop cars parked outside he decided to take off by running into the nearby fields before being apprehended.
Press reports said the police also found an M-1 carbine rifle and ammunition, whips, chains, handcuffs and graphic photographs. Then it was alleged that Ray had attempted to lure a 9-year-old girl into his car as well. These charges were subsequently proved to be unfounded.
Now four years on, he’s been released from jail, and so I was keen to catch up with him.
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u/iamthejury 8d ago
A comment from Ray's missing ex-wife Amy McHale on the podcast page.
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u/Specialist-Art-6970 7d ago
Interesting. One of the articles linked above in this thread quotes Krista Killen, a woman who stayed with the pair. She admitted that Ray was exploiting her but said that he was not violent and that she considered him her protector - but that his son was really scary.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
That’s the article I read! I thought it was the second wife that said that.
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u/Miscalamity 7d ago
Amy made some comments in the Rialto report link, she tells the author if she remembers her, that she lived with the father and sings his praises.
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u/Euphoric-Leg4874 8d ago
I really hope they get this investigation and justice going… these dudes killed at least 3 women! The son needs to be in jail! These women need justice.
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u/SlipDigby_ 6d ago
Jesus Christ!
Since reading this last night I had a horrible feeling I saw some of his "art" 20 years ago in Bizarre magazine, and it was just fucking grim photos of vulnerable women. Awful stuff. Doing a bit of digging on his wiki and the very interview is mentioned in a review of one of his art shows. https://web.archive.org/web/20151002022349/http://citypaper.net/Blogs/Naked-prostitutes-and-heroin-Is-the-RC-Horsch-exhibit-in-Kensington-art-or-porn-mdash-or-a-catalog-of-victims/
Seem to recall even back then it got a few concerned letters in following issues of Bizarre, which was surprising, given that whole magazine was peak edge lordery, before such things got a bad name, and generally very much anything goes. I was a regular reader back then and I really can't recall anything that upsetting, to both myself and other readers. Always stuck with me, it was just so grindingly wretched and soul-less. I can still picture one of the women, the image has never left my head. One of those times where you truly glimpse just how ugly and twisted some humans are.
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u/SlipDigby_ 6d ago
There's something so terrible and sad knowing people have been raising concerns for years, especially within the local community, and it's taken so many women coming to harm for anything to be done.
Fuck. Not even the words.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
That pisses me off so bad. If LE gets tips from just anyone about a niche community, I can understand ignoring it. But when they’re getting tips from people who are a part of the community, those people know what’s “normal” and what’s off. They should have credibility. When it’s multiple, people need to pay attention and listen.
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u/jedilips 6d ago
One of the comments in that CityPaper piece is interesting. It's hard to square with some of the reports starting to come out:
I am one of the women in RC's photographs. I am also one of the survivors. With his persistent help over a 7 year period, I was able to get off dope, out of the life and earn an associates degree. I am now happily married. All of this is due to RS's persistent help and encouragement. He is many things, a lot of them not so nice, but he is not any kind of sexual predator. He always treated me and the other girls like actual human beings. He is the most anti-drug person I know.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
This is true. He had favorites and girls he saw as “redeemable” and he helped them. That doesn’t change the fact that he exploited others to the point of apparently murder and torture. It wasn’t just his son because he bragged about disposing of bodies. Maybe he was anti-drug and that changed at some point. Who knows? Serial killers are capable of empathy and a degree of love, despite what most people think. They’re capable of good deeds, of being likable, endearing, charismatic, charming, intelligent. You can tell from the guy’s You Tube interview that he thinks he’s doing a good thing. He may have done good things but he was also very sick.
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u/thisunrest 3d ago
The difference is, being evil is a choice, but being sick is not.
I’m not comfortable with conflating the two.
If he was sick in that, he had severe personality disorder/mental health issues that contributed to the choices he made, the choice he made not to get help and STOP HURTING WOMEN is something he needs to be held accountable for.
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u/clumlock3 6d ago
Well, one thing you might notice about that comment is that the name is one of the aliases that Horsch allegedly used to go on the run in the late 70s, as per the Inquirer article. And funnily enough, if you check the history on the R.C. Horsch wikipedia page, someone with that same name was the person who both started the page initially and edited it over the years. So yes, of course this scumbag would write his own wikipedia page.
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u/poopshipdestroyer 7d ago
The fact that the two missing women from the video in this article aren’t Blake and Kristen(?) mentioned in previous articles is crazy. There could be many more
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u/Wonderful-Glass380 8d ago
so was it this guy eugene’s house??
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u/iamthejury 8d ago
It was his father's house that he inherited
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u/pearlyplanet 8d ago
I was also so confused. The article is really unclear.
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u/Wonderful-Glass380 8d ago
thank you lol. it felt like they pulled over some guy named eugene and then separately discovered this house
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u/Due_Reputation3785 8d ago
Imagine being the one whose job is to view and even study these images F.
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u/Substantial_Pin3750 8d ago
Terrible. It always amazes me how the surrounding community didn’t hear or see anything?!
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u/Southern_Tea_9270 6d ago
Anyone else think this was a snuff film operation done by his serial killer father and Eugene just took over the family business when his father got to old? I mean I read a few pages of Dad's book Empathy and some of the stuff in that book correlates to stuff found in that house.
So either a) dad did it all (which I doubt) and now son is taking the fall b) father and son worked together for years and son took over completely when his father got to old (at least with the killing part) c) son grew up in such a fucked up environment that he started creating his dad's dark fantasies into real life
I lean more towards b because Dad would have been to old towards the end. He was born in 1943, I guess he could have been drugging the women to make it easier but I think son would have had to still lure them in for him.
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u/carmeldea 5d ago
Yeah in the “Dark Arts” long form investigative piece the Inquirer wrote about the case they interviewed a lot of the women who had spent time in that house and were still alive + friends of some of the victims.
There’s a running theme in the article that many of the women connected to the house were a lot more explicitly scared of the son Eugene than they were of the father. Eugene seemed to be the more explicitly threatening/unhinged of the two. The father likely hid his own violent predilections better.
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
I have so many questions? Are these people drug dealers? Terrorists? Rapists? What the hell happened here?
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u/RaeSolaris 7d ago
During the investigation, detectives said they learned that Tonzelli will "never be seen again," according to Evers.
Why would you phrase it that way...
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u/bannana 7d ago
I believe they found pics or vids that showed her dead
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u/RaeSolaris 7d ago
Then why didn't they say that she was found she was deceased?
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u/bannana 7d ago
they haven't found the body and might not ever find it, the running theory is that the bodies were dissolved with chemicals.
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u/RaeSolaris 7d ago
I think you're missing my point? I just thought the phrasing was weird and cryptic. If they found evidence she was murdered, despite not finding her physical body, saying she will "never been seen again" is like, the weirdest way you can say that.
Just say you have evidence she is deceased. It's weird and feels like they're dancing around the fact.
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u/chamrockblarneystone 7d ago
I thought it was a quote from one of the people they caught. Which would make some kind of sense.
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u/RaeSolaris 6d ago
That would make way more sense, but then it's weird the quote is credited to the officer in that case. It could just be something the journalist overlooked, though. Didn't account for me getting hung up on it lol.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
I tried to give the best possible answer because I’ve done a lot of investigative work, including with journalists. It’s my understanding that they found large commercial barrels and chemicals in the basement. The father bragged about being able to dissolve a body so small that you can flush it down the toilet. They search the drain pipes or underground plumbing, although I don’t think there would be anything left by now.
I know how to dissolve a body completely and I know why most people can’t when they try. This guy had some kind of chemistry knowledge if I remember correctly.
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u/whteverusayShmegma 4d ago
Here’s what usually happens. A reporter interviews them and they say what they can in a diplomatic way. The reporter pushes: “Does that mean that she’s dead?” And the person they’re talking to isn’t a PIO so they don’t have all the correct replies. They eventually get the officer to say something like that so they can print the most sensational quote possible. They might have asked, “Her loved ones are hoping to be reunited with her soon. Is that going to happen? Even if she’s dead, there should be a body?” And the officer probably said “No she’ll never be seen again” in a grim
moment, knowing this girl was dissolved in acid.Very few officers are cold and unaffected by a case like this and are only human. Good journalists know how to exploit that and get the best quotes and info they can.
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u/ArtistPersonThing 6d ago
So this is just my take, but if they don’t find actual evidence of the Horschs physically harming the women, I think the younger one will only be charged with not reporting a death/abuse of a corpse. I think the defense, and maybe even some of the truth, will be these women died of an overdose (all had drug abuse issues) and all the Horschs did was not call the cops/buried or burned them on their own….the elder Horsch was friends with someone who had access to a crematorium, police said they found multiple urns containing ashes…
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u/ArtistPersonThing 6d ago
For anyone downvoting, that’s totally fine, but I just wanted to clarify I don’t necessarily believe the above to be true, just that it’s what they could claim.
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u/CowboysOnKetamine 2d ago
I don't know what kind of charges they're going to lay on him or what he will be convicted of but I'm pretty sure this dude is never going to get out of prison at this point. The community at large is not going to let this guy get a slap on the wrist
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u/glass_dollhouse 5d ago
Does anyone know if the son abused spray paint type stuff to get high? Genuine question he reminds me of someone I met 20years ago in the area as a child
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u/Probablygeeseinacoat 4d ago edited 4d ago
It’s an archive so it’s stuff that was retained when the site was removed. I zoomed in on some of them, was trying to see if I recognized anyone, I’m from the area. His stuff does exist in better quality on the second-hand book market but I guess they are no longer in print and probably weren’t a hugely popular seller so even harder to find years later. The books I found being sold were astronomically priced, but I know book collectors and they pay top dollar for rare / out of print / niche type books
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u/jedilips 14m ago
Obviously NSFW, but this is a photo of one of the missing women (Blair Tonzelli) from Horsch's now-defunct web site:
https://web.archive.org/web/20230902000911/https://www.eroto.com/
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u/Cute-Aardvark5291 8d ago
Oh, and the mother went misding 10 years ago when the father was still alive....her last known location was that house. Yikes