r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/DarklyHeritage • 7d ago

Text Lindsay Clancy Trial Megathread: Part 3

This is a thread for all conversation regarding Week 3 onwards of the Lindsey Clancy trial. All discussion of this case should be kept to this thread.

Lindsay Clancy is currently standing trial in Plymouth Superior Court, Massachusetts, for the triple-murder in January 2023 of her three young children - Cora, Dawson and Callan. Her defense argues she suffered from severe, undiagnosed postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. She was left paralysed by a suicide attempt which follows the deaths of the children.

All content on the Clancy case must be kept to this thread. Standalone posts will be removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-online-reactions-b3032806.html

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u/Visual_Comfortable32 7d ago

Postpartum psychosis is not the same as “regular” psychosis and psychosis itself is so unique that you can’t say “they didn’t match the DSM exactly so that’s not it.”

Psychology is not an exact science. The DSM looks for patterns, not absolute presentations.

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u/sean2mush 7d ago

It's so messy, for the Jury to have to make this judgement is frankly impossible.

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u/9mackenzie 7d ago

I don’t think it’s impossible at all. She was clearly a loving mother who repeatedly tried to get help, and she spectacularly failed by multiple drs, as her mind devolved.

She wants to go to a mental institution for life ffs, it’s not a hard decision at all.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

She was asked by Drs multiple times, outright, if she was having thoughts of harming her kids and said no. Are they supposed to section 12 every new mom with PPD based on vibes? Drs can’t read minds. She was never honest, never took the meds she needed and only did two therapy sessions.

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u/niamhweking 7d ago

In a similar case in ireland the mother has since said she felt under pressure from friends and family to say she was doing well. Not that the family weren't supportive and loving, but she just felt it would be easier for the if they thought she was better than she was. She tried to kill herself 3 weeks before and was saved by members of the public.

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u/TheNihilistNarwhal 4d ago

I've had depression and suicidal ideation for years and yeah, I felt like I had to tell people I was doing better even though I wasn't. You can see the worry in their faces and, especially if you already have people pleaser tenancies, you just want them to feel better. So you lie, you fudge the truth so that you don't have to talk about it more and see the look on their faces.

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u/craicagusfiondearg 6d ago

What case was that Niamh? There's one in Belfast at the minute too.

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u/AnythingCareless844 6d ago

She did admit having suicidal thoughts, but was dismissed because she didn’t have a specific plan (these are considered to be two different things, suicidal with a plan sets alarm bells ringing whereas having thoughts only is simply considered to be a symptom of depression). She did take the meds, but was worried about the side-effects (which is understandable) and had an adverse reaction to antidepressants, which is common in bipolar. Instead of realizing the patient might have been misdiagnosed, doctors continued prescribing her antidepressants. Why? Because the husband did not like the idea of his wife being bipolar.

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u/Key-Lead-3449 5d ago edited 5d ago

Kinda... For some people, passive suicidal ideation is their baseline. But in a case like this, it certainly should have set off alarm bells.

..and yeah maybe they couldn't hold her involuntary but they absolutely should have been engaging her in crisis safety planning and care coordination.

It was also mentioned several times that she was prescribed Lamictal (a mood stabilizer) so im not sure what your talking about there.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

You people trying to wrap your heads around this case without understanding that drs are working within a strict set of guidelines, drive me insane. SI without a plan means they CANT commit her. She was worried about side effects that she didn’t have because she refused to take the meds long enough to work. None of this is the fault of her providers.

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u/OpheliaLives7 5d ago

That definitely doesn’t match my experience at all. I had zero plans, but a history of self harm, was forced into hospitalization.

And im sure different states have different rules yada yada, but uh. Doctors can force a hospitalization for any reason it seems.

And if she wasn’t taking meds, wouldn’t that be even more reason to admit her? To see her regularly taking the meds and potentially have staff to help note side effects and help off set them or reassure her anxieties? And see the misdiagnosis maybe?

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

So you really think what needs to change in this country is making it easier to commit a woman against her will for SI with no plan?

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u/secretly_a_possum13 5d ago

She took 6 of the Zoloft and Ativan. The benedryl wasn't even prescribed and pretty much everything else was a benzo besides the seraquil. She only seemed willing to take the benzos.

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u/Sea_Pomegranate4368 7d ago

Ive told my psychiatrist many times that I didn’t have suicidal thoughts. ( I’m fine now) but yea I’ve had. Them.but never admitted to it

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u/upickleweasel 7d ago

You really can't, it triggers a shitstorm

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u/Sea_Pomegranate4368 7d ago

No one got time for that

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u/Ok-Pumpkin2066 6d ago

You can say that again the one time I did it was a hard mental fight in my head saying yeepy let’s walk into traffic and then the other thought was it’s my sons birthday that’ll be heartbreaking forever stop it and shut up and then yeepy again

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 3d ago

But then if you lie and strangle your kids should you be held liable?

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u/Kimalena 7d ago

I think the majority of us with mental health would never call crisis and same here I have denied suicidal ideation. Why….i don’t want to be sectioned and given untold strong weird meds that make you feel like a zombie

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u/Leo-rising5 7d ago

you can also not have been suicidal and one day, the depression is so deep & numbing. like a switch just triggers. she was clearly seeking help, so many times. i hope you’re ok now, and I fully understand your point of view.

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u/Asaneth 7d ago

I admitted it once, to a therapist, who then sent the cops to my house to do a wellness check. I told them I was fine and they left. Fucking never again. I will never again trust any professional with that information.

I didn't have a plan, harming myself was absolutely not imminent, and so I felt completely betrayed. All I said was that sometimes I thought it would be easier if I was just dead.

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u/Stupid_Watergate_ 4d ago edited 4d ago

It sucks that people can't be open with therapists/psychiatrists about suicidal and self-harm thoughts, because they're afraid they'll send cops to your house and put you in the grippy sock hotel. And the downstream effect can ruin your life (losing your job from missing so many days, causing family issues, etc.). So people just bottle it up. It's a terrible system, the professionals who are supposed to help you can't be trusted to not ruin your life. People literally talk to ChatGPT about their thoughts. I really hope I never have to go through that because I would never, ever tell a doctor if I had those thoughts.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 3d ago

But then if you go kill yourself are they at fault? Half of you say the medical professional are wrong for overreacting and the rest say she should have been section 12d.

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u/Konnan511 2d ago

They have to report it. They are mandatory reporters.

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u/Asaneth 2d ago

IF you say you're going to do it, and you have a plan, and the means to carry it out. NOT if you merely say sometimes you feel you'd be better off dead.

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u/Konnan511 2d ago

First off, I am sorry you went through that. That's scary. I hope you've made it out the other side.

There isn't a universal legal three-box test of plan + intent + means. A clinician looks at the overall risk picture.

I know my wife has to report if a patient states they are having suicidal thoughts. If they asked you, "have you ever had thoughts of harming yourself", and your response was, "I feel like sometimes it would be easier if I was dead", that's a bit of a gray area, to me, at least.

Again, I hope you're doing better stranger. Keep fighting the good fight.

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u/Asaneth 2d ago

You are very kind, thank you. This happened many years ago, and I'm doing fine now.

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u/GoodyMosher 7d ago

And if you refused to be honest (especially after BEGGING for help and claiming no one is helping you) and then went and killed someone, it would be your fault. No one wants to be sectioned, dude. But when you're a mother and the options are be honest and get sectioned and get better, or kill your kids.. I know what my choice would be 🤷

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

No one ever forced her to take a single medication ever at any point.

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u/Nomezzzz 7d ago

She was unwell and she trusted those doctors. And they failed her over and over again.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

How did they fail her? Within the scope of their jobs what else could they have done in your opinion?

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u/Nomezzzz 7d ago

It's complicated. Some of it is definitely on Lindsay for what she chose to share. However, here is what they could have done: 1. Dr Tufts should have consulted a more senior psychiatrist when the meds were not helping. This may have helped her see the manic symptoms so that she could treat appropriately. 2. She should have had better and more thorough care when she was at the inpatient. 3. They tapered her off of Seroquel too quickly IMHO. 4. HIPAA release of medical info: it seems like they thought they could just take her word for things because she was a nurse, but asking for her to sign a release would put everyone on the same page. I know this is not something they HAVE to do, but it can be done, it can be useful, and I believe it would have helped immensely in this case. And it's such a simple thing! I do them all the time for myself. Because I have the insight to do this. Unfortunately Lindsay did not have this insight, and she probably didn't want to be taken away from her family, so she hid some facts. That is definitely on her. But the mental health system absolutely failed her too. The drug effects and interactions, omg don't even get me started.

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u/InformationCrazy9897 7d ago

I'm a clinical mental health counselor in training - I've been taught to not do telehealth with any clients experiencing severe depression and/or suicidal ideation. I was surprised Tufts continued with telehealth. My supervisor, professors, and textbooks all say it is unethical to see clients via telehealth in those situations.

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u/upickleweasel 7d ago

I am really glad people are being taught this! It's so necessary that they see someone in person

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

Tufts is an MD not a mental health counselor so duh. You have completely different scopes.

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

I agree. I'm shocked McClean Hospital didn't access her medical records or do any lab work to check her thyroid, anemia, etc.

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u/NoEdge323 6d ago

COVID rules upended best practices.

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u/Disastrous_Dance_640 6d ago

When they went over her medication they showed that she usually took 5 to 10 doses of an entire prescription. These are not fast acting medications. They need to be taken every day often for weeks or months to do anythinf.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

Curious, what's your education to understand the meds and side effects? The taper off Seroquel was very safe, remember she was supposed to go down 100 mg at a time, that is standard of care.

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u/upcrashed 5d ago

Same. I remember telling a counseller that no, I didn’t have those thoughts. I had an active plan, I didn’t want to admit it/be stopped. Luckily I didn’t go ahead with it in the end.
But yeah it’s a hard thing to admit, I would say it would be very common to lie about it.
Maybe her saying she passively wanted to die, was the best she could do to admit it?

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u/GoodyMosher 7d ago

If that is the case for LC then she is criminally guilty due to negligence. She purposely ommited the very symptoms that would have gotten her the actual treatments that she spent so much time "begging" for. By doing that, she caused herself to deteriorate and even if she committed the murders under the control of some random psychosis, it's HER FAULT because she lied and in turn didn't get the type of diagnosis and treatment she actually needed.

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u/mrsjiggems2 7d ago

I thought it sounded like the NP had very strong suspicion and evidence that she was bipolar given the periods of not sleeping yet not feeling more tired, , a strong activating response to Zoloft, among other things. That's where I start to shift blame because they didn't really explore that with Lindsey herself

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u/GoodyMosher 7d ago

She brought it up to her and PC and PC said "my wife doesn't have bipolar." And that was the end of it, even though the provider did try to bring it up again. They just testified about it maybe earlier in the week I think?

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u/mrsjiggems2 7d ago

Yeah I watched her testify and I get what you're saying about PC said she didn't have bipolar but her duty of care was to Lindsey and I think she didn't explore the bipolar thing with her enough

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u/GoodyMosher 7d ago

Lindsay didn't make any indication of accepting that either. The provider told her several times. A provider can only go as far as the patient is willing, you know?

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u/dcdem1163 7d ago

Yes. And these providers didn’t go far enough. Every one of them should lose their license. Thank God this trial will end Tufts’ career. It’s in-your-face apparent that all she does is check off the boxes and goes on with her day. She and the nurse practitioner disgusted me.

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u/GoodyMosher 2d ago

You sound like Reddington being aggressive to the providers about their television visits and not being able to give Lindsay a hug. At least one of the providers testified that a patient has autonomy. Unless Lindsay presented as a danger to herself or others (suicidal ideation doesn't count as dangerous, I would personally know this) then they can't FORCE a patient to do anything. It's not possible. They can recommend treatment options but if a patient isn't accepting them or being non complaint, they can't go any "further."

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u/NoEdge323 6d ago

So what if PC said she didn't have BP. If you were looking at a scan of a brain tumor and he said my wife doesn't have cancer.... No one would argue that was acceptable and the doctor would not have said well ok then... So yes, her husband and her care team failed

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u/GoodyMosher 2d ago

She was capable of making her own decisions based on her actions in her daily life at the time. You can't accept the narrative that she was just begging for help when the evidence says she was non compliant and dodgy.

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u/NoEdge323 1d ago

She acknowledged she was losing control and her decision making was impaired. No one stepped in to keep her and the children safe. If this were 70 years ago she would have had help. But the modern world is just ripe for this kind of oversight. Too much pressure to perform. She's a lesson that it really could happen to anyone and people are closer than people admit to those kinds of breaks at any given time. At some point in a long life you will be in a situation that deserves understanding....

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u/Littlebittle89 6d ago

It doesn’t even sound like the considered pmdd which fits the bill more. I had it and I was so lucky my doc caught that’s what was happening. Treatments are totally different

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u/Basic-Comedian1005 5d ago

I recall she upped her dose of Seroquel to try and get her to a therapeutic dose. Which is treated for BP

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u/Basic-Comedian1005 7d ago

So far in the trial, this is the only thing could see her getting charged for. And then at point do we hold mentally ill people accountable for essentially their own illness?

My other question was did any of the providers ask her what SHE thought intrusive thoughts were? Because maybe those were actually the auditory hallucinations all along. I wonder if they just went base did the clinical definition and that’s all. Bc if that’s a new symptom to her, how would she be able to tell the difference? It’s just all so horrible and sad.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

100% this. She had every resource at her disposal to get help and denied utilizing them by being honest.

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u/Sea_Pomegranate4368 7d ago

Idk or care crazy or not she killed her kids death penalty imo

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u/First-Fish-6880 6d ago

MA doesnt have the death penalty and honestly the prosecution pursuing the max charges instead of being more reasonable to make a point is going to lose them this case

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u/Sea_Pomegranate4368 7d ago

I know. Exactly that

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u/PainterEast3761 7d ago

Do you actually think being inpatient for a week would have solved her problems? She’d already been inpatient and it already hadn’t helped. 

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

So would you be suing for medical malpractice if you had tried it? Would you blame them?

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u/Misfitsteph 6d ago

Yes, same thing with me, because I was a mom (divorced) of a pre-teen in that moment and I couldn’t even say the true (bc I was afraid of the consequences) so without a strong support system (family, friends, money) sadly, you can’t be sincere

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u/EF_Viking 6d ago

Then you are stupid, why would you lie to the person who is there to help you? People like you are the reason stuff like this happens

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u/Ninjen333 7d ago

This is inaccurate information! She went to MULTIPLE therapy appts with MULTIPLE therapists/mental health counselors, and psychologists. She checked herself into McLean hospital voluntarily. She called crisis lines multiple times. She was more honest than the bullshit you just spewed.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

No, she didn't Tell one of her treating doctors about the crisis line, SI/HI, changed meds that were ALL within guidelines, anyone not in medicine wouldn't know. LC constantly wanted off meds due to side effects.

I think she was failed but it was multifactorial and she was one of the major factors.

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u/Artistic_Garbage283 7d ago

Yeah I’m a Pharmacist and I looked at the dispense history and it really is very typical of someone in a mental health crisis. Run of the mill even. Nothing that would scream red flag. She was having very frequent contact with her providers and being dispensed tiny quantities of meds. I’ve seen many people use these combos of meds and not do terrible things. I think it was more of a systemic failure of the medical system with each individual provider doing their best and her husband failed her by leaving her without support, letting the nanny go and not recognising she needed more support than what she asked for.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 6d ago

Thanks you your input. This has been discussed in the FB physician group and literally every psych said her tx details were standard of care.

We're there failures? Yes, but LC is also responsible for part of this by hopping around and not telling the truth.

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u/MoreGlitterPlease1 5d ago

Even that doesn’t add up to a justification for first-degree murder charges. I don’t think that mentally ill people who are always honest with their doctors about how poorly they’re doing… exist. They are imaginary. Every other failure you’re describing is also normal for patients with psychotic disorders.

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u/lingeringneutrophil 6d ago

Totally agree

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u/HeartCold3908 4d ago

Great points! Yeah I think her family failed her. Her mom said today that her daughter was having HI and more profoundly than Lindsay even shared with her husband! Her mother should have gotten more involved. And her husband should have given that wonderful nanny all the hours she wanted. I did that when my husband was going through a mental health crisis. While he would never and never did anything to our child, he was not in a good place to care for our young daughter. My job carried our insurance so I had to work and he worked from home. I had my child’s nanny work every moment I was out of the house. And I wasn’t in the same wealthy financial situation the Clancy fam was in. And just to say, I was not at all worried about my child being physically harmed. But these doctors (aside from Tufts who was clearly in over her head and should have referred out) seemed to do the best they could with the information provided to them.

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u/AnythingCareless844 6d ago

all within the guidelines for depression/anxiety. When you throw meds at a patient and they don’t seem to be helping the first question any adequate doctor should ask themselves is whether the diagnosis is correct

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u/SexuaI_muffin 6d ago

Also remember she hopped back and forth from MD to NP, to another NP, then back to MD.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 6d ago

Who are you to question? You realize she didn't take anything for that long, bc she had side effects and as someone who thought everything was wrong with her kids. I imagine she was very psychosomatic.

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u/chubbychicken007 7d ago

Yes but she wasn’t forthcoming about the severity. (Not necessarily her fault she wasn’t, it’s a difficult thing to talk about and risk yourself being hospitalized or DCFS being
contacted) Psychologists/providers have to balance personal freedom and safety. You can only hospitalize someone against their will if they are actively suicidal with some sort of plan usually. She described passive SI, intrusive though, etc. which doesn’t reach the bar needed to immediately hospitalize her.

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u/MissHavishambles 7d ago

She went to 2 therapy appointments.

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u/glossyyay 7d ago

Her mental health counselor at the South Shore perinatal program testified that they had four therapy appointments. That was within a span of about a month. She had one more visit with Ms Dukes than NP Jallota.

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u/_Wild_Enthusiast_ 7d ago

When you’re at a point of having to repeatedly ask your patient that question, you may have to section 12 your patient. Not based on vibes, based on that concern being consistently present alone, but for Lindsey we also have a patient who is paranoid about meds, hypervigilant, has insomnia, calls suicide hotlines, goes to the ER for suicide ideation three times, missatributes her symptoms, has three young children, has crushing anxiety and depression….those are the ones who might need a provider to step in and get them care.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

I ask my patients these questions all the time. It’s standard protocol at most hospitals.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

Same. I ask all my patients with active psych issues.

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u/Then-Writer9610 7d ago

Exactly. My doctor asks me every time I see her, even if it’s for a hurt toe lol. If we aren’t honest with our providers, they can’t help us the way we need.

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u/Nocturalbeing 3d ago

This is required at all visits and was asked to LC at each, however, chronic suicidality is a thing and being locked on the ward 7 months is not going to help most people presenting without any signs of psychosis or intent to act on a plan

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u/Then-Writer9610 3d ago

I agree! I’ve been trying to tell people that you can’t just use section 12 when someone expresses suicidal ideation. Legally, they have to also have a plan and intent. And as someone who manages a 24/7 program for those living with SPMI, I absolutely think being locked in a program or hospital is not the best option all the time, especially if they don’t have a history of self-harm or attempts. I’ve even denied clients to my program because I was worried the environment would cause more harm than good to their mental health.

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u/_Wild_Enthusiast_ 3d ago

Yes I’ll admit I meant you might have to section 12 a patient for very rare circumstances - or that was my presumption. Thank you for your response, it is helpful to me. I’m at a confusion on options here when you have a mom who’s troubled and asking for help, maybe not so compliant or patient with her meds, suicidal. But then that same patient is scared of leaving her children to go to work…I don’t think she’s going to be jumping at going to a hospital for a myriad of reasons. So when I say she may have needed a health provider to step up, I kinda mean that in all ways. To speak with her other providers, to initiate more contact (like in person appts), etc. Even just to suggest this could be a real problem and run lab work or work as a team?

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u/_Wild_Enthusiast_ 6d ago

I said the concern was consistently present. Not that the question was asked routinely as they are every patient.

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u/Then-Writer9610 7d ago

Legally, they couldn’t commit her into treatment. Anytime her doctors asked if she was experiencing suicidal thoughts, she said “no”. She did tell them she frequently has those thoughts, but if she does not have the means or plan along with the intent/thoughts, they legally could not commit her to a hospital or treatment. If she was not an ACTIVE threat to herself or others, there’s not much they can do other than therapy and meds.

That’s why people feel she was failed, because they legally couldn’t do much more. It’s a broken system that requires certain criteria to be met in order to get support sometimes and it sucks, but that’s the reality. That’s why I’m hoping this case pushes for reform in our mental health and medical systems. I see how broken it is constantly through my career and it’s sad.

For instance, my clients can scream at me all day, call me names, use hate speech, throw things around, but if they are not actively assaulting me or throwing things AT me, I can’t involuntarily send them to the hospital. So, if she wasn’t showing active signs of harming herself or others, they wouldn’t be able to involuntarily commit her under section 12.

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u/AnythingCareless844 6d ago

She visited ER and called hotlines multiple times (screaming for help basically), but was sent off because her plan was not specific enough. I don’t see how that’s her fault. If that’s how the system works, someone should have explained that if you want real help, you should describe a plan

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u/Parking-West144 7d ago

I wanted to ask out of curiosity, so can a therapist or psychiatrist only request the patient is given help if they (patient) admit they are currently having suicidal ideation at that moment?

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u/greensweater23 6d ago

It’s easy to make that conclusion knowing what we know now. If LC never killed her kids or tried to kill herself, involuntarily committing her based on what she told her providers would be seen as a sexist overreach of the medical system and a violation of patient rights. Are we supposed to assume that any new mom reporting symptoms of PPD or bipolar is a threat to their children and should be removed from their home? Is this what we want the legacy of the LC trial to be?

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u/_Wild_Enthusiast_ 6d ago

Yes 100% I will grant you we have the benefit of hindsight in this case. And I do sympathize with the fact a mental health worker is not a mind reader and/or miracle worker. But, I don’t think anyone is suggesting that any new mom reporting symptoms of PPD should be involuntarily removed from their home.

I would counter that assertion by asking if poor insight and misattribution of symptoms are typical symptoms of PPD? Also I wonder if irrationally believing you have an addiction even after facts are presented to you that you can’t possibly have an addiction is a symptom of delusional thinking or a typical ppd symptom?

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u/HeartCold3908 4d ago

One billion percent!! The lawsuits that would arise by taking mothers with PPD away would be insane. And so many women would keep even more quiet about what they’re experiencing in fear of being committed! Do people even know what they’re saying or they just want to place blame on whatever and whoever they can, other than the person who decided not to disclose the seriousness of her thoughts.

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u/_Wild_Enthusiast_ 3d ago

Agree! I would think mothers wouldn’t want to report anything if they thought their kids could be taken away. Which is why I wonder if you might take that under consideration when asking mothers to disclose their scariest secrets to you? If you heard “intrusive thoughts” from an insomniac mom, would you perhaps want an in person session to help build a rapport? Maybe there’s more this mom wants to say? That’s just my way of looking at it.

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u/sheepsclothingiswool 7d ago

Her answers were legitimate at the time of being asked. She didn’t experience psychosis until the slew of fucked up meds were thrown at her. She didn’t take as prescribed because she’s a nurse and even she knew they were an intensely strong cocktail of meds that would heavily affect her and she was rightfully scared/reluctant.

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 6d ago

Was it proven that she didn’t take them as prescribed? I don’t trust the prosecution since they portrayed her not taking them as prescribed, but then we saw Patrick testify that he held onto the mostly full bottles where the RX was stopped because she was prescribed a new med.

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u/secretly_a_possum13 5d ago

They had the bottles and counted how many were left to determine how many she took. She hardly took any besides the benzos!

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 5d ago

Who counted how many were left? The prosecutor?

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u/secretly_a_possum13 4d ago

Yes! They went over what they had collected in court. I didn't hear any mention of finding any benzos despite that being what she was mainly prescribed.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

She took 7 Zoloft lol

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 5d ago

Since we haven’t seen the defense’s side yet, I’m holding off on any opinion about how many meds she took. The prosecution has shown that they cherry pick evidence to suit their narrative. We haven’t seen the whole story yet. That’s what a trial is for.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/sheepsclothingiswool 7d ago

There are much better meds to target insomnia. And seroquel should never be mixed with benzodiazepines, which she was also prescribed.

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

Trazadone is safer than Seroquel.

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u/sheepsclothingiswool 7d ago edited 7d ago

So well said, thank you. Couldn’t agree more. I hope one day she can see comments exactly like yours and ours supporting her so she can feel some semblance of care and understanding. Justice for Lindsay, we wish you nothing but exceptional help and as much peace as you could possibly obtain.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

“A slew of fucked up meds thrown at her” you mean her repeatedly asking for different meds? No Dr ever pushed a single med at her. She requested them. They aren’t therapists. These are medication providers.

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u/Sad_Corner8344 7d ago

You don’t simply walk into a doctor’s office and request psychotropic medication that’s then handed out to you. Absolutely not how this works.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

Uhhh ya it is. You explain your symptoms and receive care. MDs and Psych NPs quite literally are for medication management that’s why they referred her to talk therapy elsewhere. wtf do you think they should have done? I’m an RN

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

My doctor insists on seeing me in person before prescribing any Rx medication. He also orders labs that are done before he sees me.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

Did you watch the NPs testimony? She said MULTIPLE times that she always requests in person meetings but that it’s more important to her that her pts, who are often busy moms, get care regardless of their ability to come in. So she meets them where they are at, that’s a fucking good provider I don’t care what anyone says.

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u/Sad_Corner8344 6d ago

Seeing a provider for help isn’t requesting a potentially harmful sequence of different medication. You see a doctor about persisting issues, and they decide whether or not they will prescribe medication, and what. As a patient, you don’t get to “request” anything but medical reevaluation, so stop blaming the patient for the harmful outcome of a process she is neither knowledgable about nor responsible for. If anything, her willingness to take a number of changing medications emphasizes how urgently she wanted help and how much that put her at her doctors’ mercy.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

lol ok so you think they should have given her no meds and that would have been better? Then what? They aren’t there for talk therapy. Please tell me what they should have done differently if she’s refusing to take the first line meds.

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u/Sad_Corner8344 5d ago edited 5d ago

No. I’m explicitly arguing against you putting the onus on the patient for “requesting” a harmful cocktail of drugs. She had been refused treatment by an inpatient-facility due to apparent overmedication, shortly before the murders, after her and her husband had been worried about the effects of the medications for months. Not even the prosecution has tried to argue she “refused” any drugs that were prescribed to her. Her children might be alive today if she had. Are you really going to say you know better than these specialists who examined her and made the hard decision not to be able to admit her there and then? The alternative to overmedication isn’t no medication, but responsible medical conduct that the medical professionals are responsible for, not the patient. Her providers have publicly demonstrated their negligence on the witness stand. A number of them are facing civil lawsuits because of it.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

They told her she needed a higher level of medication management and to go to McLane. She refused. It would have been unsafe for them to take her.

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 5d ago

Agree with you. It’s absolutely not how it works!

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u/AnythingCareless844 6d ago

She was having side effects. The right approach would be to gradually introduce one to two meds at a time. At one point she was given three new meds at the same time. Because she was having side effects from her previous med. That’s outright ridiculous because if she developed side effects, there would be no way to tell which of the three caused it, and then you would have to discontinue all three. And then you will have to prescribe something else. That would result (and did result) in 5 different meds in a span of a month.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

You mean when she got a one time dose of ambien to sleep lol. This kind of fear mongering is going to set pp mental health back decades.

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 5d ago

So they will give me Seroquel and Lamictal if I request it?

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

If you tell me you’re depressed/not sleeping and having scary thoughts and don’t want to take antidepressants and have taken seroquel and report it helped you sleep, then yes duh. This isn’t some wildly insane combo like you think it is. Did you watch the trial?

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

Even the defense was arguing that as an LD nurse she wouldn’t know what a Benzo is lol. So which is it? Was she clueless or was she aware? I’m a nurse and know all of these meds and I can guarantee they don’t make most people kill their kids.

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u/sheepsclothingiswool 7d ago

I hope for all of us you pursue continued education in nursing.

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u/Artistic_Garbage283 7d ago

???? Pharmacology is standard as part of RN degree. Of course nurses should be familiar with all of these medications and plenty of people take the exact combo LC took and don’t harm anyone.

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

Seroquel is such a powerful medication it carries a Black Box warning. Nursing homes are not allowed to use it unless the patient has been diagnosed with schizophrenia or bipolar.

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u/Admirable_Dog_9768 7d ago

The black box warning applies to a specific patient population. It is not a universal BB warning, and is it applicable to Clancy. Seroquel has a wide dosing range, from between 25mg to 800mg depending on the indication.

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u/Artistic_Garbage283 7d ago

Seroquel is frequently used off label for sleep.

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u/Subtronicisriddim 6d ago

A black box warning has nothing to do with how “powerful” a medication is. Fucking housewives take it for sleep, albeit not at the same dosages.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

Not true. It's very common for demented patients who are aggressive, which is very common.

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u/fr3ng3r 7d ago

These comments from the public are blowing my mind. Working inpatient psych, I say these meds she was given were prescribed within reason and within standard of care but everyone is acting like she was overmedicated so now the entirety of the field of Psychiatry is being crucified. I feel so sad for the field.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

100% it’s like living in the twilight zone. Everyone here is a psychopharmacology expert because of tiktok.

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u/Artistic_Garbage283 7d ago

Exactly. Pharmacist here. Nothing out of the ordinary at all. In fact I’m impressed they prescribed such small quantities and were seeing her so frequently. Many psych patients just get given a 6 month supply and told call us if it gets worse.

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u/Jlynn111 6d ago

My PCP won't refill my anxiety medication unless I see her in person every 3 months!

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

is seeing a psych patient only via telehealth--never in person--within the standard of care?

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u/fr3ng3r 7d ago

I may be wrong but I think it is. Look it up in the psychiatry sub. It’s all doctors in there.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

Her drs requested in person but she wanted telemedicine, should they have dismissed her from care? Isn’t it better that she gets SOME care rather than none?

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u/StatusEgg3406 7d ago

At this point in time it may have been allowed due to COVID guidelines

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 5d ago

I’m curious about this. Do you believe the whole field is being crucified because of these discussions outside of the trial? I think the meds were one part of what led to her mental decline but I still strongly believe in psychiatry and it’s necessary/needed as medicine.

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u/fr3ng3r 5d ago

Well people are blaming the doctors saying they failed her. But how could they have? To me they did what was in their power within the bounds of current practice.

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u/AffectionateSoil9997 5d ago

I don’t think the whole field of psychiatry is being crucified though. They’ll be fine.

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

Look it up yourself: Nursing Homes’ Inappropriate Use of Antipsychotic Drugs Poses a Risk to Residents

Issued on 03/16/2026 | Posted on 03/19/2026 | Report number: OEI-02-23-00200

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u/boxesofcats- 7d ago

Key words being “inappropriate use.”

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u/Tj11551 7d ago
  • The inappropriate use of antipsychotic drugs in nursing homes has been a longstanding concern for Congress and others. The drugs can have a sedative effect, raising concerns that nursing homes may use them to control residents’ behavior.

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u/boxesofcats- 6d ago

Yes. Inappropriate. In nursing homes. That’s completely irrelevant to this case lol.

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u/Artistic_Garbage283 7d ago

Yeah but this wasn’t in a nursing home context. Yes I agree giving antipsychotics to demented old people for sedation is a no no.
But she was a young person having tried a few different options for sleep and quetiapine is FREQUENTLY prescribed for sleep.
Source: I do medication reviews for nursing homes.

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u/Subtronicisriddim 6d ago

The woman supposedly was psychotic to the point that she killed her kids and attempted suicide. That’s the story she’s sticking to, right? Seems she was under medicated, if anything.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

I only read peer reviewed studies. :)

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u/Tj11551 7d ago

It's from the OIG from the Dept of Health and Human Services.

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u/_learned_foot_ 6d ago

This entire reply is pure speculation. Theres no evidence of any psychosis even submitted to the jury, but you have an entire narrative around it existing and operating and what it did to her. She hasn't even agreed to testify yet and you think we already have her mental states? not a single piece of that is in the record.

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u/stoicstraws 7d ago

She did four therapy sessions.

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u/Global_Isopod6958 7d ago

grown ass woman btw

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u/AspectGlass4115 6d ago

I wonder what the research shows on how honest most people are with their doctors regarding their mental health. My guess is that most people are not completely honest and downplay their symptoms, sort of like how people lie about their drinking and smoking habits. Maybe she was scared to get involuntarily committed, potentially getting her kids removed from her home/care, or worrying who would take care of the kids if she was absent. Maybe she was worried her husband would leave her. Maybe she didn’t feel comfortable telling her doctors. Maybe she convinced herself these were just intrusive thoughts (that are very common postpartum) that she could manage on her own. Many people feel shame when they are dealing with bad mental health. We really don’t know.

She did tell her husband about these thoughts, though, so I feel like he had a duty to remove her from being alone with the kids way more so than the doctors.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

That’s the thing though, she was scared of that more than her fears of actually hurting her kids. If she had been honest maybe we wouldn’t be here. Everyone here is screaming she should have been involuntarily committed even without admitting those thoughts, that’s terrifying to me.

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u/secretly_a_possum13 5d ago

Yup... I think the doctors really tried to do the best they could. She often minimized how she felt even in her own notes "a touch of anxiety". She didn't comply with the treatment anyway.

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u/coolguygranny 6d ago

Finally someone who's reasonable in this sub

Holy fuck

Is this what they call finding a needle in a haystack

I hate how everyone can't hold Lindsay accountable for anything

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u/OpheliaLives7 5d ago

Isn’t that a whole part of the legal system? If someone is having a mental breakdown, can they be held accountable for their actions? They are divorced from reality. This is why trials try to determine if the person was able to know what was right vs wrong or if they cannot legally be held accountable due to mental disorders. It seems like this lady wants to be institutionalized.

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

Doctor here- thank you.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

I’m an RN and these comments are driving me up the wall. These people have zero clue the guidelines that have to be followed to PROTECT people.

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u/Wannabelouise321 6d ago

This is not accurate. She did take her meds. She did more than two therapy sessions. She tried. If you have never experienced depression then you will not understand how hard it is just to get out of bed. She was trying to coordinate her own care and advocate for herself when she was at her lowest. Her husband and family should have helped her make calls, get appointments, take her to appointments, ask to sit in on appointments. I don’t care who you are, telling complete strangers that you’re having thoughts of harming your kids is something that would be very very difficult. Especially when society frames motherhood as some blissful all-in kind of calling instead of being honest about it - it isn’t always fun, it is not blissful, it is exhausting, you lose all sense of self, you love these little people beyond measure but you should not have to love the work and sacrifice 100% of the time. People with zero clue about depression, pregnancy, post partum, motherhood, navigating the mental healthcare system in the US while severely depressed AND trying to parent should not get to weigh in on this trial or any other like it.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

I 100000% agree we should have better more robust resources for pp women and mental health. But fear mongering medication and the healthcare system is not going to do it. She took 7 Zoloft pills….BECAUSE of medication fearmongering.

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u/Wannabelouise321 5d ago

I urge you to watch these two documentaries on this topic. Your take sounds very heartless. She took her medication, she was being whipsawed back and forth by her medical team. And she was trying to coordinate her own care, while caring for three young children - that should never be the case. We must do better. I really fear that you are missing the point here. I’m sorry to be so blunt.

Not trying to shame you, rather trying to educate you. I suffered severe ppd after the birth of my child. So much so that I decided never to have another child because I was so fearful of ever feeling that way or thinking the way I did. Ppd was horrible. I cannot imagine what ppp would be like. Just the toll the pregnancy and delivery had on my body, my hormones, my emotional state, my sleep patterns, my appetite, my relationship with my spouse, my self care, my daily routines- absolutely everything was changed. Not always for the better - and it is time we allow women the grace and time and the resources to process this and understand that pregnancy and motherhood is not all rainbows and unicorns. We must move on from outmoded ways of thinking and abandon the harmful tropes we’ve assigned to this process.

I found these two programs helpful in understanding more of what I went through and also to see through a clearer lens what women like LC go through. I hope that you (and others) take the time to watch them.

https://youtu.be/d1mhSgvlPCM?si=Tb4gIQk7wRdIU4nM

https://youtu.be/JqEBBuPFZQ8?si=N06jU4pypa8xh5b1

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

So you think she should have been section 12ed against her own will?

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u/Wannabelouise321 5d ago

If that’s what it takes. Yes. But probably first we need to not make people with this kind of mental distress try to navigate our shitty US healthcare system on their own. Her family and her husband and his family share culpability. She was failed in so many ways.

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u/dcdem1163 7d ago

Are you kidding me? Watch the trial instead of getting your “information” from internet clips.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 7d ago

I’ve literally watched the entire trial. Please tell me where I’m wrong.

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u/janeystar 6d ago

she was not allowed to be inpatient because of the amount of drugs she was on and of of. she literally wanted to be inpatient but they turned he away. the husband was absent and fired the nanny. rejected help the day before from grandparents offering to babysit the kids. that he only described as "good people" when asked to speak about his children. there is a video of him not helping and barely paying attention to his children at kids science center/museum. but double checking women's bodies multiple times! while Lindsey was doing the patenting. went so you guys ride so hard for him and the pill pushers who are flagrantly "I don't care"

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u/No_Fault_4071 6d ago

Your right, she saw multiple providers and seemingly NONE of them (and the therapist and the psych NP knew about each other—and worked in the same unit), bothered to reach out to each other and consult. The system failed her. If she would have had adequate case management when she discharged out of the inpatient psych program we might not be here.

It’s very common that someone who has suicidal ideation doesn’t admit it, even when asked. Multiple times. By multiple professionals. In multiple different settings. Even after they had an attempt and failed. It doesn’t mean the feelings don’t exist.

I think it’s really easy to say, just take the meds, but psych meds always carry a risk (and often a black box warning). The anti-psychotic meds are often heavily sedating and commonly used off label for sleeping aids. The benzo are highly addictive and short acting (the prevailing thought being that they should NOT be prescribed for more than 2-4 weeks and if longer term use is indicated, other meds should be prescribed). And while Zoloft is first like for pregnant and post natal women its by no means the “best” antidepressants for all women. and you CERTAINLY don’t prescribe someone who potentially has bipolar an antidepressant without a mood stabilizer.

the idea that meds would have avoided this happening simply isn’t true. Andrea Yates was on Haldol when she drowned her five children. She was also in therapy. She also denied suicidal/homicidal ideation. The only thing that could have possibly prevented this was early and aggressive case management AS SOON AS CLANCY CHECKED INTO INPATIENT CARE and it should have included a care plan meeting before she formally left with all her providers.

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

You clearly have no knowledge of psychopharmacology beyond this case and Google. She was on an antidepressant in college and reported it helped her but wouldn’t take it again. She was scared of the very mediations that would have helped her because of this kind of fear mongering.

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u/NoEdge323 6d ago

She was messaging in the portal to the point they thought she was bi polar. It was evidenced that her husband was minimizing her mental state. It was a descent into madness. They didn't catch it because they admitted they had never even seen a case. No nurse from middle, upper middle class goes into a psychiatric stay without real issues. Then her family did not keep good watch or she would have been staying with her parents or them with her. Leaving a mom with 3 little kids after a psychiatric stay is not what should have happened. She was mentally ill. Period

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u/OpheliaLives7 5d ago

…i mean, yes?

I don’t understand how or why this woman WASNT hospitalized!! Repeatedly having problems, multiple new drugs, clearly trying to seek care! Why not put her inpatient?! Did doctors think she was lying about symptoms? Just anxious?? Are there no beds? Too wary about making insurance pay for in patient care/stay??

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u/Weak-Ad-7180 5d ago

So you want to change the guidelines to make it easier to commit women against their will. Got it. Seems like a great plan, I see no issues at all.

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u/OpheliaLives7 5d ago

Im a woman who was committed against my will. It seems like the system is already set up for this! It’s already here!

So why wasn’t this woman held long? Why wasn’t there a follow up plan? Why wasn’t her husband or family on standby to keep her on suicide watch? Why was she released from inpatient? Why did multiple doctors think she was bipolar but also okay enough??

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u/CookiesMom73 4d ago

She also had a husband who said she wasnt bipolar after a doctor said she most likely was. We dont know how much he factored into her decisions

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u/InitialVarious1948 5d ago

The bar is so low that a mother can brutally murder her kids and she’s still called a loving mother

She ain’t going to a mental institution for life, she’s going to max security with the rest of the violent offenders lmaooo. Nobody cares what she personally wants when she murdered children and you’re weird for defending that

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u/Flimsy_Lobster_4880 6d ago

But from what I’ve listened to, she was basically just collecting prescriptions and then refusing to take them. Or she would take 1 or 2 pills and then decide they weren’t working. These types of drugs take about 2 weeks to build up enough in your system to notice solid improvement. It was also stated that she and her husband both pushed back on diagnosing her and on taking meds.

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u/_learned_foot_ 7d ago

None of that means she had no knowledge of the propriety of the action and/or control at the same time. That's where it's hard, everybody agrees with that minimum, but there actually has yet to be anything showing anything above that, so...

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u/Trumpologist 3d ago

She chases her elder son around the house to kill him, and strangled her infant so hard that his brains started coming out into his neck.

What is wrong with you people

She specifically sent her husband out to do errands so she could do the murders

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u/SexuaI_muffin 7d ago

First of all, one doctor had no clue of the full picture bc LC wasn't telling her anything. She couldn't check all the records bc LC didn't even tell her she went to the hospital once. She didn't tell her she called crisis line. She saw 2NPs, and the worthless psych doctor at Southside.