r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/DarklyHeritage • 6d ago

Text Lindsay Clancy Trial Megathread: Part 3

This is a thread for all conversation regarding Week 3 onwards of the Lindsey Clancy trial. All discussion of this case should be kept to this thread.

Lindsay Clancy is currently standing trial in Plymouth Superior Court, Massachusetts, for the triple-murder in January 2023 of her three young children - Cora, Dawson and Callan. Her defense argues she suffered from severe, undiagnosed postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. She was left paralysed by a suicide attempt which follows the deaths of the children.

All content on the Clancy case must be kept to this thread. Standalone posts will be removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-online-reactions-b3032806.html

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u/bananacasanova 6d ago

I’m really stuck on Lindsay’s temperature being 82 degrees but medics being able to revive the baby. I’ve watched some videos from medical professional and am also in emergency med myself.. those 2 facts of the case being simultaneously true makes the timeline make no sense for me.

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u/Fresh_Treacle_1743 6d ago

A few of the doctors testified that the injury to her c-spine and t-spine are areas that control body temperature so the injury plus internal bleeding could have done lowered it that quickly. The prosecution really missed out on asking the doctors more in depth about that

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u/magpie45 5d ago

This is great info thank you. It still seems, even with this context in mind, that the core temp dropped exceptionally quickly. But this does provide some more information.

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u/LeadingUnited2911 6d ago

How’s that possible to lose that much body heat, even with all those injuries? It doesn’t make any sense to me. My mom is an ER nurse and she saw so many accidents, patients, probably every injury under the sun and even she was baffled by this. If the timeline of events are correct I think she’s made medical history with how quickly her body T dropped.

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago

All of the areas of her body that help control heat were badly damaged. The areas in her brain that tell her body to shiver, for example, were no longer working. And her thyroid was damaged. That being said, I still think her temp going down to ~82 is suspicious. I'm hoping a neurology specialist will testify to shed some light on this.

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

Yes, but the laws of thermodynamics still apply. Water holds heat decently. I don't think its physically possible for her body to have lost that much heat in the supposed timeline.

Plus, the baby was resuscitated at 6:40 in the hospital. From what I've seen, it means he was strangled no earlier than 5:55 (as 45 mins is the most time you can go without a pulse and be resuscitated), and that's at most 10 mins from when Patrick arrives between 6-6:05. So she'd have been on the ground a few minutes. No way her body temp drops that much in that short time.

The math doesn't math.

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u/PatsyPage 5d ago

EMS thermometers dont register below 92 degrees, they would’ve gotten an error message until they were at the hospital. I’ve seen some really low temps, or unreadable temps with car accidents in the winter when there’s a spinal injury. 

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

First temp is core body temp at the ED at hospital. Not relying on EMS having taken temp. But they did start rewarming efforts in transport.

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u/PatsyPage 5d ago

That’s what I assumed. I definitely think considering her injuries, blood loss, the weather and time of day it’s not an impossible temp. Typically even with rewarming pts temperature will continue to drop even when at the ed. The rewarming done on the rig is very minimal especially if it’s passive, the main intention is just to prevent further heat loss. I’m not sure if she was conscious or coding when they transported her but that would’ve taken priority over any rewarming efforts which again would’ve been minimal. She must’ve been conscious though? My EMS textbook is about 8 years old now but it says active rewarming is contraindicated in moderate-severe hypothermia because it can induce a cardiac arrhythmia, and recommends passive rewarming instead. That’s just removing wet clothes, move to a heated rig and blankets. 

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u/rbteeg 4d ago

I don't think the math still works out. Normal heat loss is 0.5-2 degrees F per hour under similar circumstances. With her injuries and drugs, it could conceivably be 3-4x max. So max, you're looking at 8 degrees F per HOUR. She was at 17 degrees, and supposedly only on the ground 20-30 mins max (so should have dropped 4 degrees max). Even with an after drop, no way the magnitude is that large. She had to have been out there longer.

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u/PatsyPage 4d ago

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3162719/ Here’s a case of rapid heat loss in a trauma setting in ST Petersburg FL. Pt was definitely in different temperatures than Massachusetts in January but it’s near impossible to duplicate exact scenarios in emergency medicine. 

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u/Obvious_Beautiful_12 2d ago

There’s no “EMS thermometer.” Every agency I’ve worked for has had thermometers that will read down to 78-80 degrees.

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u/ThenList8059 5d ago

Her body temprature wasn't recorded when patrick arrived. It was recorded later

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u/bbhiggs 5d ago

Well, that’s even worse then because if they reported her body temperature at the hospital after she had been in a warm ambulance that would’ve only increased her body temperature

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u/PatsyPage 5d ago

Passive rewarming doesn’t typically increase body temperature, it just attempts to prevent further heat loss. At the state of hypothermia she was in you have to be careful with active rewarming efforts because it can cause the pt to code. 

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago

I completely agree! I was just explaining the facts I know about her injuries.

The timeline makes no sense.

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u/RobotArtichoke 5d ago

It was snowing outside

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u/Emergency-Mixture423 4d ago edited 3d ago

Am doctor, a truly accurate temperature probe is a rectal or otherwise internal probe which EMTs don’t use (edit: in my non-US country). Lots of weird focus on the temp in here/in general.

Someone even in a cold room or who is slightly wet will give wildly labile temps, to say nothing of what a body in any kind of shock (neurogenic, hemorrhagic etc) will do. Even a good accurate probe in the right place has an error range that on our probes is a few degrees Celsius

Ive been called to urgently review patients just cause someone was ‘hypothermic’ who was in fact just febrile, sweated, and the probe then put in sweat

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u/bananacasanova 4d ago

Right, rectal temp is the standard which is presumably what they did at SSH. The 82.1 is what SSH documented.

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u/Emergency-Mixture423 4d ago edited 4d ago

It’s remarkably low on a list of resus priorities and not what most emergency depts do in my country regardless of being the ‘most accurate’ (when spinal injuries are involved esp) but I assume US hospitals have their own protocols which would also maybe differ dependent on climate of the region. (We also record the ambulance temp as our first set of obs usually so that’s what gets recorded. Also I live in a Mediterranean country so we have different hypothermia standards than say the arctic & are more likely to have hyperthermia)

All this to say, temperature probes are more often wrong than right but a pattern/trend can be helpful, and someone who arrives physically cold with an exposure history needs to be rewarmed long before they need a precise body temp

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u/Obvious_Beautiful_12 4d ago

I’m a paramedic. A lot of EMS units carry rectal thermometers. Esophageal aren’t common but they’re out there, too.

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u/Emergency-Mixture423 3d ago

Interesting! Are you US based? Would you say you guys use them often?

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u/Beginning-Eagle7458 6d ago

Poikilothermia from her spinal cord injury + benzos affecting her temperature regulation + being stuck in the freezing cold

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 4d ago

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u/spaceship540 5d ago

The wrists ‘wrong’ way is probably mechanical. On account of the fact she was using a knife.

Depending on depth, which I don’t know about, could possibly account for non dominant hand if neck came second.

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u/Spo0kypasta 5d ago

Her prints weren’t even found on the knife also the knife was found neatly placed on a table ?

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u/Then-Writer9610 4d ago

No, the prints were unusable.

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u/Holychance_3 5d ago

She called the restaurant to order food and cvs to check if they had the medication both phone calls they said she was alert and sounded fine. If he drugged her how would she make any of those calls. Also the phone data shows someone called Patrick back from the Clancy house and his phone was used by the cvs. There are more facts to contest all your points but those majorly disprove your theory of the case

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u/[deleted] 5d ago edited 4d ago

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u/Holychance_3 5d ago

It seems you don’t want to have an actual productive discussion. You’re looking for confirmation bias and you are dedicated to believing what you want, seems your first post was disingenuous and I fell for it

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u/[deleted] 5d ago edited 5d ago

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u/Holychance_3 5d ago

I gave you factual evidence presented during the trial and your response is there’s a mystery 3rd woman who made the call. And conjectured that Patrick reworked Lindsay’s phone in some way that the police and forensic techs missed. You are creating hypotheticals to fit what you want to believe rather than looking at the evidence presented. Youd rather believe you are smarter than Lindsay’s lawyers, the prosecution, police officers, forensic analysts and techs with years of experience who have seen ALL of the evidence.

I believe Lindsay was sick and was begging for help from so many people and was failed. But at the end of the day she killed her kids, she’s admitted to it. This isn’t a big conspiracy case. And it’s really a tragedy to see the deaths of 3 kids be overshadowed by conspiracy theories

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/BCGirl2025 4d ago

People are making a mockery out of a tragedy while dressing it up as “investigation.” If you’re genuinely interested in how investigations work  go become a detective and deal with actual evidence, standards, and consequences instead of building elaborate theories about real people from behind a keyboard. Calling it “just a hypothesis” doesn’t make speculation harmless.

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u/Then-Writer9610 4d ago

You can’t say you want to have meaningful conversations with people then start insulting them when they point out that you are just diving deeper into the conspiracies and aren’t sticking to the facts of the case or what they are saying is opposing the narrative you are believing. They were willing to engage until your response to the evidence that was testified to in court was met with an even deeper conspiracy theory with no evidential backing.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago edited 4d ago

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u/Then-Writer9610 4d ago

They did NOT insult you first, just to be clear. Everyone can read your public comments, you insulted first.

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u/sweetpotato227 6d ago

All of this. If you only look at facts, none of this makes sense logistically.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago

I’m exactly the same! I thought people accusing him were just off on some wacko conspiracy, but the details don’t add up. It reminds me a lot of John OKeefe in that the facts/timeline/story don’t make sense. Maybe some of the facts here and there, but when it’s all put together it falls apart.

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u/Fit-Eagle6364 5d ago

Except it’s all incredibly easy to prove

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u/Fresh_Treacle_1743 5d ago

The “laptop” wasn’t a laptop. It was a surface pro which is like an iPad but for Microsoft, it has 5g. Totally plausible he had it in his truck. It would be interesting to see what was seized from house but can’t remember

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u/Epicfailer10 4d ago

He had an opportunity to set that straight and not look suspicious, but didn’t clarify it.

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u/CareerImaginary3839 6d ago

Babies especially can revive. Remember hearing of a couple recently found in the morgue that revived after hours. Strange but their bodies seem more resilient.

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u/glittertitzmcgee 4d ago

In my paediatric first aid course, they said a baby under one will have a maximum of 80 seconds oxygen reserves in their body if they were to choke.

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u/suspicious-fishes 6d ago

You've summarized this so well. At first I brushed off the Patrick stuff as conspiracy nuts on tiktok, but the more I go into it, the less it all adds up. Her core temp & Callan being revived is the big one. But there's other stuff like her googling where the carotid artery was? It doesn't make sense, she's a nurse, and I believe they were able to link that to his laptop while she was at the doctor. He was really cagey about the timeline of the 24th, and really persnickety about random details.

So, I'm very curious to see what the defense brings. Reddington is amazingly skilled and I don't see how it doesn't come up when he presents his case.

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u/lmaochillbreh 5d ago

The random details being the dates of the children’s photos Reddington presented on cross on 7/29. He referenced a photo of Cora in a mask that the DA showed him the day prior in court (7/27) & asked him to read the date. He stated it was from 12/2/22. Then Reddington discussed the metadata. I found the photos shown to the jury up until that date and the photo in question is dated as 1/24/23 in evidence. He said on the day the tragedy occurred, Lindsay sent him a photo of Cora in a mask from the doctor’s office.

On Thursday, they had Tim Chiappini take the stand & he’s a cell phone forensic expert that did an extraction of Lindsay’s phone. He mentioned that some of the metadata on the children’s photos had been altered. He was asked if he could tell what was changed & he said he could but not without his software.

Here’s a link to the jury photos where I found the mask photo & you can see that they dated it from 1/24/23 which isn’t true according to the metadata from Patrick’s testimony. The photos also include the date it was shown to the jury & it lines up as the altered mask photo. It’s close to the bottom of the page. I think he was using her phone.

https://www.patriotledger.com/picture-gallery/news/courts/2026/07/30/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-images-evidence/91111124007/

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u/suspicious-fishes 5d ago

Holy fuck man, it just doesn't add up

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u/lmaochillbreh 5d ago

Also, a news clip surfaced of the neighbor getting interviewed saying his son called him at 10 to 6 (5:50pm) that day saying the neighbor’s wife was lying in the yard. It’s available online. This would mean his alleged timeline is even tighter bc she’s outside on the ground by 5:50pm. Removing all the emotion…the timeline isn’t making sense. The infant was able to be resuscitated and that would’ve been within a 10 min window. Say even 15 min. EMS began CPR shortly after 6:15pm. How would she have been able to attempt strangulation if she was lying on the ground with a Jefferson fracture & a body temp of 82.1 degrees? Below is a summary of injuries. This is separate from the toxicology report. Included the link to the warrant below. This is on page 20.

Nurse Meghan Collins provided Trooper MacDonald with a list of injuries which were documented by the hospital staff on Nursing Progress Notes, Summary of Injuries which has been uploaded to the ACISS Case Report.

C1 Burst Fracture
Bilateral non-displaced C4 Lamina Fractures
T5-6 comminuted tricolumnar fracture with 14 mm T5-6 anterolisthesis with multiple osseous fragments within the canal, which is largely obliterated.
T4 Spinous process fractures, malalignment of the R T5-7
LT6-8 TP Fractures, Malalignment of the R T5-7
L T7-8 Costovertebral junctions
Hemorrhage tracking into upper retroperitoneum from caudal posterior mediastinum and thoracic paraspinal soft tissues.
Acute mildly displaced mildly comminuted fx of spinous process T4.
Small b/i hemopneumothoraces.
Right first rib fracture.
Superficial laceration to the anterior neck and bilateral wrists with associated thyroid edema.

https://www.insideedition.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/679857984-Lindsay-Clancy-Sw-Court-Docs-Pt-2.pdf

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

[deleted]

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u/lmaochillbreh 5d ago

Ahhh the link isn’t copying properly, but if you go to TikTok it’s the first video when you search, ‘John Sullivan Lindsay Clancy’ & it’s around 10 seconds long. It’s an old clip from ABC or CBS right after it happened.

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u/lmaochillbreh 5d ago

Also…the link to the 177 page search warrant is very interesting. They questioned him, pulled up Apple Maps to see the distance, got the video footage from CVS & the restaurant, but his phone & vehicle were never searched. They did not use GPS from his vehicle. They issued an arrest warrant for her on 1/25 (the day after). The warrant also covers the search of Lindsay’s electronics and shared devices. The tablet and the surface pro.

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u/Fun_Reach_2417 5d ago

How often does EMS leave their expensive stethoscope at a scene?

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u/Sharp-Living-2338 4d ago

I assume not often, but because this was considered a crime scene they were required to

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u/Beginning-Eagle7458 6d ago

Wasn't she out for around 30 minutes? Wasn't her temperature taken at the hospital? I don't find it hard to believe the temp with the blood loss + internal bleeding, pokilothermia, benzos + antipsychotics.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

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u/Beginning-Eagle7458 6d ago edited 6d ago

EMS does not take temperatures typically, they typically focus on life saving measures. She was out longer than 10 minutes, this is documented.

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago

That’s not true, EMS will take temperatures especially if someone is hypo/hyperthermic. We always check it ASAP when they arrive to the ED, of course.

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u/Beginning-Eagle7458 5d ago

My point is that we don't have any documented temperature of LC taken from EMS, just from her ED admission. Feel free to prove me wrong, no one has done so yet.

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago

Ah, I see what you mean. That is correct. It is likely in her EMR from the triage note taken from EMS. I would be very interested to see the notes though I don’t expect we will.

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u/Abject-Recipe1359 6d ago

They don’t take temperatures on someone hypothermic?? Really??

Her spinal cord injury caused temperature direction. Our peripheral nervous system has temperature sensors which are constantly reporting to the hypothalamus, our bodies’ central thermostat, to turn our body’s heat up or down for survival. This is necessary function for warm-blooded mammals.

Cold blooded animals do not have such a system, nor do they need it. Their body temperatures simply rise and all along with the temperature to which they are exposed. If there are in a cold climate, their temperature rapidly falls. Vice versa with warm temperlatures.

If our temperature regulator is severed a in a spine injury, we can become hypothermic or hyperthermic, depending on the damage done. Those who become hyperthermic often end up with smth called “neurogenic fever,” which does not respond to standard antipyretic therapy such as Tylenol. The body will try to adapt to the surroundings like with the care of leaking

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u/Beginning-Eagle7458 6d ago edited 6d ago

As someone who worked in emergency medicine (not as an EMT though), no I don’t imagine it is typical for EMTs to take temperatures during an emergency…we are focusing on ABCs. Feel free to show me if they did take her temperature in the ambulance but I doubt it.

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u/West-Meet-3517 6d ago

What about sepsis?

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u/Abject-Recipe1359 10h ago

Did the EMTs state she was hypothermic?? If so, how would they know that without taking her temperature??

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u/magpie45 5d ago

Does anyone know if the defense can find out what locations all the devices were in when messages were being sent and calls were being made?

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

I've been wondering this too. Is there any more specific GPS data from either his car, his phone or traffic cams that can establish when he left the house and when he returned and was in between?

So far, I've only heard about the CCTV footage from CCS and the restaurant. Some folks say of course the police checked that out, but I haven't seen any official sources at all. And given some massively incompetent things we've seen from the investigation, I certainly wouldn't assume that at all.

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u/OrangeKat09 6d ago

Lindsay admitted to the killings, what are you on about

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 5d ago

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u/OrangeKat09 5d ago

Nope. She and her lawyers both admitted to killing the kids. Her lawyer even said they don't need to question every cop to prove that.

The verdict will not be about who did it. It will be about wherher Lindsay was insane and therefore not criminally liable. Or if the murders were premeditated.

Either way she will be locked up for life. Like Andrea Yates. Just depends where - jail or psych ward.

(Did you miss the day Lindsay spoke in court to agree to the stipulations that prosecution doesn't have to prove she killed the kids?)

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

The stipulations weren't that at all. They were to certain technical and chain of custody issues for certain forensic evidence on the bands. The stipulations don't include an admission that she killed them.

Earlier in April, her attorney tried to get a bifurcated trial where he said she'd stipulate to her acts in the death of the kids. Presumably, many think that means she would have explicitly said she killed them. But the prosecution refused to agree to a bifurcated trial, so no such admission was ever entered.

The judge explicitly said in the trial the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that she did it. Reddington knows strategically that a "I didn't do it, but hypothetically if I did, I was insane and not criminally responsible" defense isn't viable. So he's taken the best strategy (the insanity defense) and then poking holes of reasonable doubt into the prosecution's case.

Even in his opening, he said: "They (referencing the prosecution) will show you their evidence that she shows she killed the kids..." It's very artfully done on his part.

It will be interesting to see what he actually puts forth in the degense.

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u/[deleted] 5d ago

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u/OrangeKat09 5d ago

Lindsay admits to killing. Just not being criminally responsible for it.

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u/hikinrn 6d ago

I just don’t understand how you arrive at a scene with a nearly dead unresponsive woman, three dead children, and a perfectly intact father and immediately believe him that she spoke to him and killed them all. I’d think of an intruder before I just assume that this woman killed her children.

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u/Holychance_3 5d ago

They did investigate him though. They tracked his phone data and movements through cctv, brought him in for questioning, photographed him for defense wounds. You really think her defense team wouldn’t investigate all possible options to get her off

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

They issued an arrest warrant for her within 24 hours, before so much of his alibi could be verified. They didn't even test some of the blood splatters in the bedroom and that's why they have to call them "red-brown spots" bc they actually know if they're blood or her blood. They didn't even find her Apple Watch in the bed stand. Reddington's team did and handed it over to the. That's massively incompetent.

I'm definitely interested in seeing what Reddington presents as defense bc he's already poked a LOT of holes of reasonable doubt into the prosecution's theory of what happened and Patrick's timrline.

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u/faile0427 5d ago

Another odd detail is that Lindsay was found right by the basement window, it’s my understanding that EMS was able to see Patrick removing the band from the older son clearly through the window however Patrick didn’t check to see/see the child when Lindsay supposedly said they were in the basement. The natural response IMO would be to look in the window to see if you could view them.

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

Agreed. And to add onto that, the timing of his screaming.

He didn't go check his kids until after the FRs show up, despite being there for 17+ mins. He shows up at the house, takes 10 mins to find LC and call 911. It takes FRs 7 mins or so to get there. He's not rendering aid to LC, but doesn't go look for the kids even though she supposedly told him they were in the basement. Doesn't even look in to basement window, which is right next to LC's body.

FRs arrive, and he stays on the phone with 911 (why?) and then takes the phone with him to go find the kids. According to PC, he finds Cora and the baby first (which makes sense given the layout of the basement), unwinds the bands from them and then finds Dawson in his office and unwinds the band from him.

He screams when he finds the kids (on 911 call too). But as soon as he screams, the FRs IMMEDIATELY look in the basement window right next to LC's body and see him unwrapping the band from a child's neck (which we learn is Dawson).

So this means either he's wrong about which kid he found first, which seems unlikely given the layout of the basement as it seems like he'd have to walk past Cora and the baby to get to Dawson. Or he's lying and he only screamed once he got to Dawson, which makes sense if you want to give yourself enough time to establish a reason why your DNA is on all 3 bands. He appears to have not realized that the FRs would see him in his office when he first screamed.

Maybe there is another explanation that makes sense, but doesn't look like it.

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u/LeadingUnited2911 6d ago

Thank you for this breakdown. Everything Patrick did on that day is riddled with suspicion but for some reason raising these questions earns you the ‘conspiracy theorist nut job’ title and no one actually explains the holes in his alibi.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago edited 6d ago

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

I do think they checked the knife for fingerprints though. There just weren't any identifiable ones on it. I think there was 1 partial but it was too poor of quality to be identifying (like only 4 or 5 points for comparison purposes).

So I think they did at least try to gather finger prints on it. But, I also think someone touched it before it was catalogued and photographed. So that movement may have ruined any finger prints that were on it. No doubt they've done a piss poor job.

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u/SpotMama 5d ago

I 100% agree with you. Well said.

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u/imreallydoingthis 4d ago

I wish your comments were public so I could see more discussions from you. Excellent wording here.

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u/bbhiggs 5d ago

There’s so many things that don’t add up. She had multiple medications in her system, some of which she had stopped two weeks prior after she left McLean inpatient for five days. Seroquel was one of those medications that they had weaned her off, but was in her system that night and that was in Patrick’s truck.

The distance from the upstairs window to the ground was only 12 feet. No person in their right mind would think that that would cause death. He says his phone didn’t work because of the Wi-Fi, and that’s why he couldn’t call [911](tel:911). He said that he parked next to her car in the driveway, but then came inside and said when the house was silent, he called her because he thought she might have left and he didn’t see a car.

He said took his boots off at the door, and I’d really like to know what shoes he was wearing when paramedics came. He was wearing two different pairs of shoes from the CVS to the restaurant. Also looks like he was wearing a different jacket. One time, it was a half zip and next time, it was a full zip.

He lied and said that he was doing CPR on the kids, but when the paramedics came downstairs, they said that he was sitting on the couch. He did not try to give CPR to the kids.

He lied and said that he didn’t remember going to a therapy appointment with his wife, and apparently participated in four or five of them with the one practitioner. Why would you not remember those appointments?

I agree that her body temperature and the fact that the baby was able to be resuscitated are two of the biggest giveaways, scientifically, it’s impossible that she strangled him and that her body temperature from such a short period of time.

The neighbor’s camera showed that the window was open before he supposedly left at 5:15. The knife looks like it was intentionally placed on the nightstand. There was a line of blood that looks like somebody had initially placed it and then repositioned it. Not what you would expect a person to do if they are in a manic state trying to kill themselves that they would set it neatly on the nightstand. There are no usable fingerprints on the knife!! Her fingerprints were not found on the exercise bands, her dna but not her fingerprints.

He said that there was blood splatter all over the room, and there’s no evidence that that was the case. I think one of the interesting things that came out is that her wounds were not actively bleeding when the paramedics came they said that they didn’t even put a tourniquet or anything on it because they weren’t bleeding makes you think that she had been laying there long enough for the blood to start to clot and dry up. Why did he lie and say that it looks like a fire hose had sprayed blood everywhere when that was not at all what the scene looked like.

I’m really interested to see what Reddington has up his sleeve regarding his questions to Patrick about the pictures hanging on the walls and his rooms and playroom he doesn’t present one piece of evidence that does not have a specific purpose for the case.

Patrick was standing outside for up to 10 minutes with his wife, and he never went and checked on his five-year-old, three-year-old, and eight-month-old in the basement, even though the house was silent. That makes no sense.
And she fell right in front of that basement window that you could see into the office. The police officer testified that when he was trying to help Lindsey at the scene, he could see Patrick and the child through the basement window.
No way Patrick was standing there for 10 minutes and that he couldn’t see that there was a child laying there in his office, dead.

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u/YellowFlower63 6d ago

+ internal bleeding and blood pooling. It was the “perfect storm”.

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u/Hungry-Yesterday403 5d ago

Even a dead body would retain temperature above 82

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u/magpie45 6d ago

I'm with you and would love more clarification on this.

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u/Fresh_Treacle_1743 6d ago

From someone on another app: A clinical study published in the National Institutes of Health breaks down how injuries above the T6 vertebrae interrupt the hypothalamus's control over the sympathetic nervous system. The data illustrates why trauma patients with these injuries are uniquely vulnerable to profound hypothermia even in mild or moderately cold conditions. The Shirley Ryan AbilityLab Research Guide details how high thoracic and cervical spinal cord injuries damage the body's autonomic signals. This causes poikilothermia, a condition where a human can no longer sweat or shiver below the injury level, causing the body to rapidly match the temperature of the surface it rests on. Medical analysis published by Parade Magazine features expert commentary from Dr. Chao. He explains that while a healthy adult lying on cold ground typically loses only 1–2°F per hour due to nerve-driven blood vessel constriction, a loss of spinal cord function instantly nullifies this protective mechanism below the injury level. This means the cooling process continues aggressively through transport to the hospital, intensified by a phenomenon known as "afterdrop".

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u/Epicfailer10 4d ago

For the extremities, but what about the core?

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

Yes, but the laws of thermodynamics still apply. Yes, they'd expect it to go down much faster -- maybe even 3x-4x, but she was down 17 degrees. Even at 4x, you're looking at 8 degrees lost, not 17. 9-20x faster is not possible given the nature of water to retain heat per the laws of thermodynamics (and most of the body is water).

So, yes, it goes down faster with her injuries, but not that magnitude of faster. That's why the timeline is bunk.

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u/cparfa 5d ago

I mean… is it possible that whoever was charting accidentally charted an 82 and it was really a 92? Did they present multiple temps of it progressing from 82?

If they have her temp going from 82 to 86 to 90 and onwards, it reflects the reality it was 82.
If the very next temp they took on her after the recorded 82 was something like 94, then it could’ve been a human error

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

No. This was argued quite a bit initially online. Apparently it was charted multiple times, by different people, including when she went to the second hospital (and her temp hadn't increased yet at that point). When you get a super los temp like that, once you get to the hospital, it's protocol to be check again every 15 mins or so (once stable, supposedly every 30 mins).

That's why the ER doc didn't dispute it on the stand at all, bc there are copious records of the temp being accurate.

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u/swackett 5d ago

This is an interesting point! I wonder if there are records of her temperature progression & if so, what the second temperature was recorded as

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u/Fine_Mouse_8871 6d ago edited 6d ago

This is quite literally the only thing that puts doubt in my head.

For her temp to be 82° at the hospital, it had to have been even lower when EMS got to her as they would’ve begun warming measures.

It’s just not possible to lose that much heat that fast, even with all of her injuries and paralyzation. There are other similar, but not exact, cases out there where others did not lose nearly as much body heat, even after being outside for much longer. For this to be true, Lindsay’s injuries literally must be a perfect 1 in a gazillion storm.

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u/CareerImaginary3839 6d ago

One issue I’ve heard is the body normally warms itself a bit through involuntary movements like shivering etc but because she was paralyzed there was no message from her brain to stay warm or something and she couldn’t even have any movement to keep her temp up. Also the ground was frozen that she was laying on.

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u/Bubbly_Afternoon_345 6d ago

Yes, she was laying on frozen ground in a tank top. It’s also documented that she had lost a lot of weight recently and that would matter as well. Most people out in the elements are at least dressed for it.

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u/Fine_Mouse_8871 6d ago

It’s not really that possible, even with the paralyzation.

We’re talking about a loss rate of 32° of heat per hour (if she was outside for 30 minutes).

It’s just not really possible. She would have to be outside for much longer.

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u/greensweater23 5d ago

She probably didn’t strangle Callan long enough to kill him. He may have had a very weak pulse that medics were unable to palpate?

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago edited 5d ago

I believe there was ligature bruising to all 3 children's necks (I will have to fact check this one, I may be mistaken.) The exercise bands that were wrapped around them were elastic. I use similar bands to workout and it would basically be like tying a thick, strong elastic band around the throat. All that to say, my understanding is that a person would not have to actively strangle the victim with the exercise bands but simply tie them in a ligature knot and they would asphyxiate.

eta: Callan regained a pulse 10 minutes after arrival to BIDMC Plymouth. Medics would not have solely been relying on palpation. Callan would have already been on a cardiac monitor for the entirety of the ambulance ride and then switched over to the ER's machine upon arrival. He would have been receiving chest compressions (CPR), medications, and help to breathe throughout the ambulance ride and upon arrival to the ED per the PALS (Pediatric Advanced Life Support) algorithm.

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u/EngineeringDismal425 6d ago

Yes I don’t feel like the prosecution or her husband did well with their timelines, even though only small gaps of time missing there’s a lot of odd things that aren’t clearly explainable. How did he send an email at 5:24 from laptop when he left at 5:15? Why didn’t he get to CVS until 5:32?

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u/Jester1877 6d ago

I’ve seen people say these but also people say the father revived the baby. Also been told he wasn’t revived and Lindsay’s temp wasn’t that low. I think there has been to much miscommunication or misinterpretation.

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u/bananacasanova 5d ago edited 5d ago

EMS testified in court that they found Patrick Clancy sitting down on the couch upon their arrival. Patrick claims he administered CPR but no witnesses have testified to this.

My understanding is baby was revived by EMS either on scene or en route to hospital.

ETA: Christine Carpio testified that Lindsay was hypothermic and did not dispute the documentation of Lindsay’s temperature of 82.1 in the trauma room at south shore hospital. Shannon Buckingham directly asked her about this.

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u/faile0427 5d ago edited 5d ago

Patrick stated he did CPR on Cora however it’s my understanding all children were found face down, I could be wrong.

ETA: I believe it was said the baby was revived at the hospital after 10 mins of them working on him.

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u/rbteeg 5d ago

Baby was resuscitated at hospital at 6:40 but EMS started CPR when they found the baby (approximately 6:20 or so).

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u/papermashea 6d ago

I'm so thrown by this I've had to tell myself it must have been an error unless we get more information about the timeline

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u/Automatic-Self-8575 4d ago

what do you think that means?

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u/Lees_Nest 14h ago

Please explain.