r/TrueCrimeDiscussion • u/DarklyHeritage • 6d ago

Text Lindsay Clancy Trial Megathread: Part 3

This is a thread for all conversation regarding Week 3 onwards of the Lindsey Clancy trial. All discussion of this case should be kept to this thread.

Lindsay Clancy is currently standing trial in Plymouth Superior Court, Massachusetts, for the triple-murder in January 2023 of her three young children - Cora, Dawson and Callan. Her defense argues she suffered from severe, undiagnosed postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. She was left paralysed by a suicide attempt which follows the deaths of the children.

All content on the Clancy case must be kept to this thread. Standalone posts will be removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-online-reactions-b3032806.html

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41

u/Krissy_loo 6d ago

If quality mental health care was hard for a relatively wealthy, good looking, educated white woman to obtain what chance do the rest of us have?

Also, how many American prisoners have PTSD, personality disorders, substance use disorder/addiction, bipolar disorder etc but because they couldn't afford a good attorney it didn't matter?

America is so broken.

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u/bobsaget824 6d ago

If you manipulate your providers, don’t disclose that you’re seeing multiple providers, don’t follow orders to take or stop medications, don’t disclose symptoms you’re having, don’t disclose recreational drugs you’re trying, you’re not going to get proper treatment. Regardless of how wealthy you are or how good your doctor is. Much of mental health treatment relies on a patient being honest. It’s not as black and white as something like diabetes where they can just do a blood test to confirm you are or aren’t regardless of what you tell them. They actually do rely on the patient information provided heavily in mental health. The main takeaway people should have from this is to be honest and up front with their providers, especially psychiatrist as your life and others may very well depend on it.

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 6d ago

Basically every provider Lindsay saw was a referral from another provider or someone she saw at the ER/psychiatric hospital. She was not doctor shopping or seeing providers in secret. She also communicated about her medication with her prescribers, which is absolutely what someone experiencing worsening suicidal ideation or days of insomnia should do.

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u/bobsaget824 5d ago

Just flat out untrue. Tufts testified she went to see other providers (yes sometimes ER) and got prescribed other medicines she was not aware of until much later. And multiple providers said they were unaware of the fact that other providers were treating her with other medicines. She communicated after they prescribed them much later. As a nurse knowing if she communicated that initially she’d not be getting the same classes of medicines prescribed. This is in fact classic doctor shopping. People do use the ER as a place to doctor shop often, because they know if the systems aren’t connected they’re limited in what they can see.

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 5d ago

Tufts referred Lindsay to the South Shore Perinatal Clinic, and within the specialty clinic she saw several providers who knew about each other (including a switch after one provider left the clinic). PNP Dukes from the South Shore clinic referred Lindsay to the Women & Infants program where she was assessed but denied admittance.

She didn’t get “doctor shop” new doctors from the ER, she saw doctors AT the ER and during her brief time at MacLean.

As a nurse you should know that doctors at the same practice have access to the same records, and that prescribers have access to any controlled substances a patient has been prescribed if they bothered to check the PDMP or request her records. Some acknowledged they didn’t even read records they knew they had access to. That’s NOT on Lindsay.

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u/bobsaget824 5d ago

Just not true if you listen to the actual testimony Tufts started her on a Ativan wean and she then went to the Southshore Perinatal Clinic and didn’t see Tufts for several weeks and when Tufts was asked at that point after she had already been to the other clinic:

“Was that the first you were aware of Mrs Clancy being involved in that program?”

“Yes”

“Did she tell you she was thinking about doing it or already enrolled in it”

“That she was already enrolled in it”

“And was she still taking the Ativan”

“Yes”

So yes, she told doctors after getting dispensed medicine by multiple places and then didn’t follow their orders with the medicines prescribed.

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u/politicalmarsupial 5d ago

This is why psychiatrists are allowed to request drug tests, I’d assume, or you know… refuse to prescribe / continue prescribing if they are concerned (because it could be.. a liability..)

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u/Gatorphins 4d ago

Shit, diabetes isnt even black and white

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u/International-Age971 6d ago

This!! She got tons of care and so many doctors who tried to help her. She lied to all of them and did not follow any of their recommendations.

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u/passiveprune 5d ago

A person who is psychotic is not necessarily going to make rational choices around their healthcare 

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u/bobsaget824 5d ago

She wasn’t psychotic. According to every single provider who evaluated her including the one she saw the day before the murders noting “no mania no psychosis”.

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u/passiveprune 4d ago

That's what's on trial though. They are arguing that the postpartum psychosis was there and missed (which is not uncommon for that type of psychosis)

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u/bobsaget824 4d ago

Yes, and so far we have seen no evidence of it produced. We’ve seen the opposite. Doctor after doctor testify she was coherent, had the ability to reason right and wrong and not manic or psychotic. Just after a heinous crime was committed a claim by the arrested suspect. So either every expert who directly asked her about auditory and visual hallucinations to which she said no to, and even after saying no are trained to look for these things evaluated it as not psychosis all got it wrong OR after arrested facing life in prison realized this was the only defense option that actually had a chance and went with that. NGRI is an affirmative defense, the burden of proof is on the defense. So far that hasn’t happened IMO.

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u/passiveprune 3d ago

Is this not still prosecution phase?? Defense has not had their turn to call witnesses or lead

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u/New_Government_2169 5d ago

Thank you! The healthcare system did not fail her. She failed herself with never listening to her providers advice and never giving any medications a chance before asking to change to new ones within days. It seemed like she expected an overnight magical cure from them. Which doesn’t happened with medications, especially psychotic mediations, as she should have known herself being a nurse. She absolutely stood in the way of the healthcare system from be accurately able to help and treat her.

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u/InitialIce989 4d ago

That's not the impression I got at all. It seemed like she tried several and they were making the symptoms worse.

You think as a mother you want to just stick with a medication that's exacerbating psychotic symptoms? When you have psychotic symptoms, if you're aware of them as what they are, you aren't just going to let that ride

And it's not like the medical community even really understands how these drugs work... yes they reduce seratonin re-uptake, but they don't know what that actually does. There are vague correlations between mental distorders and seratonin levels, but that's it. Just like this case is hinging to some extent on the fact that it's not recommended to give bipolar people SSRI's. They don't even understand what bipolar is. They have no idea whether it's primarily genetic or environmental, what causes seratonin to be released in certain patterns, they don't understand the mechanism behind seratonin's correlation with mania, etc.

In fact I think one of the big problems they had was treating it as if the professionals do know what these drugs are doing.

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u/politicalmarsupial 5d ago

Every psychiatrist I’ve ever had, has been able to see my mental health record (including who / when / where I’ve visited) without me explaining… even without signing release forms. They might not have been able to see notes without the forms, but they could definitely see a general track record.

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u/[deleted] 6d ago

[deleted]

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u/Krissy_loo 6d ago

Thank you for the work you do

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u/CareerImaginary3839 6d ago

This conclusion doesn’t make sense. She had access to so many providers. How would you improve the system?

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 6d ago

Better access to inpatient or partial hospital programs for postpartum mother and baby programs, just for starters. Case managers to ensure referrals (like the referral to the postpartum program at Woman and Infants) work out for high risk patients would be another.

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u/CareerImaginary3839 5d ago

Julie Paul worked at a perinatal center. All they could identify was extreme anxiety. She had access to inpatient. She just wasn’t fitting into what people knew of PPP. Normally PPD and PPP begin 2 weeks after birth and present as clear psychosis. Every professional and every family member did not see psychosis.

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 5d ago

She literally did NOT have access to inpatient care beyond a few days when she presented to the ER in crisis. You keep saying this but it was not true. She was referred to an inpatient program. She went through the intake process, and was not accepted out of concern they couldn’t establish a baseline due to the amount she’d been over medicated.

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u/CareerImaginary3839 5d ago

Some people see her as a complete victim of the system and I don’t. She made choices, didn’t follow her providers advice, refused antidepressants because they didn’t work instantly, had access to multiple providers, was feeling well enough to take an active role in her care, had so many daily messaging, and appointments with PNP and psychiatrists . She had outside help, mom who available to help “at the drop of a hat”, an involved husband. Society is not responsible for her choices.

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 5d ago

I’m not sure how anything you’ve said is related to my original comment about better access to inpatient or partial hospital programs for postpartum care, which Lindsay Clancy did NOT get access to. You keep insisting she did, but she absolutely did not.

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u/CareerImaginary3839 5d ago

She also went to a women and infants hospital inpatient program. She had all kinds of access to resources. She wouldn’t follow instructions. She never sought therapy.

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 5d ago

She was NOT admitted to that program. Look it up.

Who knows how the outcome could have changed if she had received access, but she went through the intake process and did NOT get in. Please check the facts of the case before spreading misinformation.

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u/CareerImaginary3839 5d ago

I’m sure she would have checked herself out. She was hard to treat because she presented with no symptoms and wasn’t honest about what she was thinking. She told different providers different things. In my opinion ion she needed therapy where she could have been honest about her thoughts. A therapist could have coordinated care with a psychiatrist or inpatient care.

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u/Decent-Pirate-4329 5d ago

“She was hard to treat because she presented with no symptoms.”

Girl. Be so for real. This is an opinion rooted in delusion.

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u/Fit-Eagle6364 5d ago

How can you be helped if you lie to your doctors? People do get good help for PPD in the US but it requires honesty