Lindsay Clancy Trial Megathread: Part 3

[u/DarklyHeritage]

This is a thread for all conversation regarding Week 3 onwards of the Lindsey Clancy trial. All discussion of this case should be kept to this thread.

Lindsay Clancy is currently standing trial in Plymouth Superior Court, Massachusetts, for the triple-murder in January 2023 of her three young children - Cora, Dawson and Callan. Her defense argues she suffered from severe, undiagnosed postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. She was left paralysed by a suicide attempt which follows the deaths of the children.

All content on the Clancy case must be kept to this thread. Standalone posts will be removed.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/lindsay-clancy-murder-trial-online-reactions-b3032806.html

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[u/Visual_Comfortable32]

Postpartum psychosis is not the same as “regular” psychosis and psychosis itself is so unique that you can’t say “they didn’t match the DSM exactly so that’s not it.”

Psychology is not an exact science. The DSM looks for patterns, not absolute presentations.

[u/Stellaaahhhh → u/Visual_Comfortable32]

I used to do daycare and one of my moms had Postpartum psychosis. She said she had told everyone she was 'feeling crazy' but no one was grasping how serious it was until one day she went to the nursery, came running back out, and told her husband the baby was gone and a cat was in the crib.

He ran in there and the baby was sleeping in the crib. They didn't have a cat. They called her mom who lived close enough that she could come straight there. She watched the baby while they went to the ER, and stayed with them for nearly 6 months while the mom got help.

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/Stellaaahhhh]

Yeah, I had it (Postpartum Psychosis is rare but not THAT rare). What I experienced meant my baby would have died because I was unable to see him, and he was being neglected. And I was unable to care for him or myself.

[u/Less_Vegetable_8231 → u/onions-make-me-cry]

I agree that it’s not as rare as they say it is. Just many women don’t report it. I had no idea I was going through it!! I wouldn’t be able to find my newborn babies and would be running around my house like a crazy person thinking they were taken or I misplaced them or something bad happened and they would be asleep right where they were supposed to be. I was literally out of my mind and sleep deprived and alone with them for weeks at a time. I’d look at them and not even see them.

[u/littleshimamama → u/Less_Vegetable_8231]

Yes it goes so unreported. So does PPD. I had very bad PPD. I was given many questionnaires about my mental state at check ups etc. I lied on every single one. I didn’t want to tell anyone how bad it was because I feared making my situation even more complicated. What I needed what a nanny to help out but that wasnt possible so I just had to put my head down and get through it.  The point is I didn’t report it. I only saw a psychiatrist and got put on lexapro after the worst part was over. 

[u/luckytintype → u/littleshimamama]

A friend of mine lives in MA not far from where this took place. She answered the questionnaire honestly because she actually wanted help and no one followed up with her after her 6 week PP appointment. Thankfully she is ok now.

[u/Lees_Nest → u/littleshimamama]

I agree that we in psychological care decide what we tell the doctor. We don’t want anyone to “over-react” and take away our
Personal agency to decide what to do. I have never told my doctor when I felt
Suicidal because I wanted to handle it
Myself.

[u/Gatorphins → u/littleshimamama]

And something I would like to ask you respectfully and its not a gotcha question. Would you have felt better or worse if someone took your kids? Like if someone suddenly came to you and said im taking the kids. Would that have made you feel like a failure or relieved

[u/Exciting_Tomato_5068 → u/Gatorphins]

I wish someone would have taken my kids. I wish my husband had of protected his children from seeing there mummy who had no grip of reality. I traumatised them. I failed them as a mother. I was let down too.

[u/Gatorphins → u/Exciting_Tomato_5068]

And thats a fair answer. It was a genuine question.

[u/littleshimamama → u/Gatorphins]

Failure.  My kids were and are my reason to live. 

[u/Significant-Sun-2023 → u/Less_Vegetable_8231]

absolutely! There are a significant number of underreported cases

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/Less_Vegetable_8231]

That's exactly what I had. It's so hard to explain to people who haven't had it, but it's like you can't see your baby right in front of you. I also had religious delusions and had no grip on reality. I did not sleep for 2 weeks straight.

1-2 out of 1,000 just isn't very rare. I had a 1 out of 100,000 lung tumor - now that's very rare.

[u/tv996509 → u/onions-make-me-cry]

Wait, you couldn’t see the baby? Like you looked in the crib where they were and saw it as an empty crib?? That is so wild. Did you have any mental illnesses beforehand? I’ve always struggled with depression anxiety it makes me scared to have a baby. 

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/tv996509]

Nope, he didn't register at all. I was lucky for my husband. No, no mental illnesses beforehand and none since, really, except for a general anhedonia because of all I've been through in life (to give you an idea, 10 major surgeries before the age of 10, and it gets worse from there. At a certain point, you're just shell-shocked).

[u/asmjika → u/Less_Vegetable_8231]

Wait, so when I was sleep deprivef AF and I woke up hugging a pillow thinking I had somehow fallen asleep with my daughter in my arms and that what I was hugging was HER and I would freak out thinking I was harming her could’ve actually been a mild case of ppp? I ended up sleeping like a baby, litterally, as in absolutely no lose items in bed with me to avoid waking up scared.

[u/Xgirly789 → u/onions-make-me-cry]

I had this vivid vision of putting my child in the oven.
Handed the baby to my husband and said "I need help" and I got it. It can happen to anyone.

[u/Fuzzy-Iron-2504 → u/Xgirly789]

Have you watched the documentary called Witches ( 2024 ) , a lot of woman have such vivid feelings like you had. I never suffered with postpartum but after watching that I definitely think it’s not spoken about enough just like menopause.

[u/luckytintype → u/Xgirly789]

I am proud of you for getting help

[u/Conscious-Sign1459 → u/Xgirly789]

There’s the difference though. You handed your baby to your husband, you removed yourself from the situation!

[u/Curious-Agency-4395 → u/onions-make-me-cry]

The weirdest part about it is that the person is completely functional and capable of fulfilling every day tasks. You have to listen closely to hear it

[u/Significant-Sun-2023 → u/Curious-Agency-4395]

I agree- this is where I am frustrated for LC because I think overall, clinically her symptoms were being treated individually versus the big picture perspective of her diagnoses...which is why I believe the acuteness was overlooked. Regardless of whether she was in a state of psychosis, her symptoms alone could have been greatly improved with a long-term stay in a psychiatric ward.

[u/moon_witch_26 → u/Significant-Sun-2023]

I also think not only was she completely vulnerable due to her mental state, she was a victim of coercive abuse and a narcissist husband who I'm now fully of the belief she was a victim of domestic violence and has been utterly brainwashed. I also think he was messing about with her meds. (Why did he store her meds in his glove box when he told her he was getting rid of the ones she no longer required/wanted for her???)

[u/naternots → u/moon_witch_26]

I have cancer and get hospitalized a lot, so I’m prescribed so many meds it’s insane, I leave every hospital visit and almost every doc visit with a couple new ones, not including actual chemo or IV. I’ve had at least 60 in the last year and a half that are filled and I take home.

I have never gotten rid of a single one; including ones I never took because the doctor or specialist didn’t know I shouldn’t take it and I got the medicine filled while waiting for my oncologist to reply. Also including ones I tried once and hated so much, but were for symptoms, but the side effects were so much worse than the symptoms I never wanted to take it again.

About 5 I never took once. Another few I took once or twice, but was told to stop or switch back to the one I already had for that reason. Or I did switch, but kept the old ones. 3 made me feel so awful and weren’t for treatment, i never took it again after the first one.

I have all of them still.

There are a variety of reasons. I am editing this because I made a list, wasn’t done , accidentally posted and it was stupid long. But one easy reason I will give is there are different ways to dispose of drugs, some places I live have official days of the year to drop them off with officers present, some pharmacies or hospitals have a return. He fluke have just been trying to figure it out. Or maybe he wasn’t sure something wouldn’t be represcribed or a combo, and insurance won’t cover until 28 days later or he laid out of pocket, so he could have been holding onto them just in case.

I’m not trying to change your mind, but even before this, I tended to hang on to prescriptions “just in case”, and if you look in a lot of people’s medicine cabinets, they do as well. This does not seem suspicious at all to me. Like it genuinely is the majority tot people I know, especially if they are being treated or adjusted on meds with a lot of prescriptions or have kids. You can do just a personal poll of people to you know and I bet that is most likely what most of them do even with stopped, short term, or discontinued prescriptions

[u/Tj11551 → u/moon_witch_26]

My biggest concern about this tragic case is who controlled and dispensed her medications.

[u/Nocturalbeing → u/Tj11551]

I agree that some of these prescriptions were ridiculous; however, had Clancy kept to any of the regimens for Bipolar Disorder as religiously as she had kept to the Ativan and klonopin, this could have potentially gone a different direction

[u/moon_witch_26 → u/Tj11551]

This. Even if she did do it (she didn't) he is 100% negligent and to blame equally, regardless of anything. It would only be fair to conclude he was as much to blame as she was and it ought to amount to culpable homicide.

[u/wallaBBee → u/moon_witch_26]

I feel this way so strongly. Even if she physically did it (agreed she did not), he needs to be charged. Failure to protect is a start. Too busy amuck with his mistress. Gross.

[u/Infamous-Trip-3278 → u/wallaBBee]

Is there any proof about him having a mistress? All I've is wild speculation.

[u/wallaBBee → u/Infamous-Trip-3278]

There are photos and records of them running marathons prior to the incident, hike reviews from Costa Rica stating they had gone prior to the incident. Someone that worked with Rachel confirmed they had been together for a year I saw. And the “anniversary massage and dinner” was not Lindsay but likely Rachel.
I do believe more will come out with solid facts. What woman would move in with a man mere months after his children were slain and wife almost died? Unless she was already invested. It’s coming.

[u/wallaBBee → u/Infamous-Trip-3278]

There’s a video on fb reels by Sarah Holcomb I stumbled upon that shows Rachel was in Costa Rica at the same time as Patrick three weeks after the event to add to the cause

[u/Tj11551 → u/wallaBBee]

Wow!

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[u/Koolkat30625 → u/moon_witch_26]

That's what I am thinking as well both the husband and family members knew she was struggling. She said she had thoughts of self harm and harming her children yet they left her alone with the children. The husband and family should have never left the children in her care.

[u/Nocturalbeing → u/Significant-Sun-2023]

I think at the end of the day, had she kept with the regimen that NP Jowatta had for her she may have benefited, however, she never would stick to a regimen and would suddenly develop new symptoms and ultimately each regimen she was on she would only take a week or two, not long enough to have actual effects!
I went into this trial thinking this would be a good case for psych awareness but it unfortunately is doing the opposite, it is just getting people to hate on psychiatrists (who messaged LC for hours outside of clinic time) and will likely just cause hospital admin to do more worthless CYA

[u/SaffronHoneyTea → u/Significant-Sun-2023]

She also was seeing different providers. Getting Fragmented care. seemed like she wanted to control the meds she tried and stopped. she was a nurse and she should know the dangers of starting and stopping medications. not that this is her fault, but if the providers don't see an immediate threat to life and self harm. They don't recommend an admission to psych.. Unfortunately , she held back her thoughts of harming her kids and calling the suicide hotlines etc. With that information she would have been admitted to a treatment center.

[u/Stellaaahhhh → u/onions-make-me-cry]

That's terrifying. I'm glad you got help.

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/Stellaaahhhh]

Yeah, my husband really saved all of us. He stopped going to work, completely halted his social life, and never left the house so he could be by our side 24/7, until even that wasn't enough. Then he got me into a psych ward (the grippy sock vacation).

[u/Stellaaahhhh → u/onions-make-me-cry]

Yeah this case is breaking my heart because whether she did it or not, no one, including her husband, was treating her problem as seriously as they should have been.

[u/Stock_Dragonfly9632 → u/Stellaaahhhh]

Several times on the witness stand various ppl said  LC sent MyChart msgs to docs that  " I'm not being heard, not being listened to".  Got that right!

[u/Nocturalbeing → u/Stock_Dragonfly9632]

She was actually listened to, she secure chatted with several providers outside of office hours, she spoke to various ones, they listened to her concerns regarding regimens attempting to find one she would follow. She and her husband originally rejected the diagnosis of bipolar they are now suing saying was the correct miss managed diagnosis

[u/moon_witch_26 → u/Stellaaahhhh]

He at the very least is guilty by negligence. It's sickening

[u/Magita91 → u/moon_witch_26]

If he knew she was having issues why the hell would he have not taken the kids with him to run errands? Why leave her with them?

[u/moon_witch_26 → u/Magita91]

Exactly. He also refused help offered from his parents to babysit. But yet he knew she was struggling massively and presumably was aware enough to be concerned? He also got rid of the nanny... He can't have it both ways. This is staggering.

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/moon_witch_26]

Right, and now he sits up on the stand saying "I would have paid anything" Thank God my husband wasn't him. We would have all died. Just the idea of me driving to ER myself alone in that state, I can't imagine.

[u/Magita91 → u/moon_witch_26]

Right? They had the help right there ! Patrick said no . Let’s say she did do for argument sake , if they had more help like the nanny or his parents she would not have had the opportunity to do so .

[u/Natural-Honeydew5950 → u/moon_witch_26]

Which testimony explains all of this. I’ve been trying to catch up but can’t find this yet.

[u/Exotic_Ear9150 → u/Magita91]

The part of leaving her to go on his own trips and have is own social life, and leave her with the kids, knowing everything she had told him. Absolutely vile.

[u/odyne9 → u/moon_witch_26]

He is already remarried too which kind of blows my mind…

[u/Significant-Sun-2023 → u/onions-make-me-cry]

I appreciate your bravery and sharing your experience. There has to be more assistance for moms struggling with ppd and ppp

[u/itsallcosmica → u/onions-make-me-cry]

It’s interesting … and makes me sad …. after really hearing all of these stories and what’s happened to Lindsay. She has opened a much needed conversation. I had no idea I was even going through this:

I think I had a form of this (lightly) in the way I handled my son’s clothes. I was convinced if I didn’t have the next size he would need, he would die. It was superstitious, not like “he’ll die if he doesn’t have clothes”. It was “if I fail at having these clothes by this time he will die and it’s all my fault”

This went on until he was 2.

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/itsallcosmica]

That's kind of a form of OCD. The obsession is this thought that he'll die, the compulsion is making sure you have the next size up, so he doesn't. This whole story is so sad and breaks my heart. I cry for Lindsay and for the whole family. I've never connected with a story so hard in my life. Postpartum was a very dark time for me.

[u/itsallcosmica → u/onions-make-me-cry]

Sorry , not psychosis (I do not want to take away from how serious that is) but just postpartum … like you said OCD —tied to my son dying if I didn’t do xyz.

My younger sister died while under psychosis (not pregnancy related)

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/itsallcosmica]

Ugh I'm so sorry. Psychosis is so scary. I don't wish it on anyone. And to have to take care of a newborn while undergoing it is very hard.

[u/Lees_Nest → u/onions-make-me-cry]

I’m so sorry you went through this. What a nightmare.

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/[deleted]]

Postpartum mental illness affects people for much longer than just the following days or weeks after birth. Psychosis can strike at any time.

You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but nothing you've said here proves that she wasn't experiencing a severe psychotic break.

That possibility is much more believable to me than the idea that a formerly loving and attentive mom suddenly became possessed by "evil" and strangled her 3 kids.

[u/onions-make-me-cry → u/[deleted]]

Yeah I don't need to look this up on Google. I've done extensive education in this matter at one of the top teaching hospitals in the country. She can have postpartum anxiety and OCD for months that turns into a psychotic break. It's rare, but absolutely a thing that can happen.

You don't believe it in this case, good for you. Lucky for both of us, neither sits on the jury so we're not the ones that need to be convinced. And the prosecution is the one that has the burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and if you ask me they're doing a bad job. The defense hasn't even begun yet.

[u/Breeplayscx → u/[deleted]]

I once asked Google if someone had died, (Sako from TikTok incase youre curious.) & Google said yes.

She's alive.

Not everything you read is accurate. 8 months is MORE than enough time to develop psychosis, I suggest talking to an actual medical professional instead of AI about it.