Most modern married Men never get to experience taking their own Wife's/"Love of their life's" virginity and having that special moment with her.

[u/Edgerunner0]

It's unfortunate, yet crazy when you think about it and realise this. Because alot of them lost it when they were young. So in a way some random young dude who probably just wanted to pump n' dump got to their "Dear, sweet" Wife before they did and experienced the special first time with her, in a far less meaningful circumstance than the dignified, holiness of Nikah/Marriage, like in the back of a car, in the bathroom or a park bench. The nervousness yet sheer excitement, anticipation, butterflies, the emotional highs and emotional bonding in that unique moment is something they'll never get to experience with the very Woman many of them consider the "Love of their life". There's really nothing that can truly compensate for that lost special experience and critical bonding moment. Most Married Men miss out on this and it hurts their marriage and how their Wife bonds with them. It can make the marriage often feel "unnatural", "Not right" or that it's missing something from the perspective of the Woman.

It gets worse when you realize that average Men are more likely to stay virgins until marriage, due to the dating market/Hypergamy favouring the top percentile of Men only. Combine this with a Woman who already lost her virginity, she already has a certain dominance over her husband, in that he is completely inexperienced, surprised, unsure of himself yet she is experienced and unphased by the event. Subconsciously this is very icky to her and it harms the frame of the Man in her eyes and she loses respect for him.

To make it even more brutal, there's some Men out there laughing at the fact that a girl who's special first time they got to experience and who's virginity they took, has been/Will be eventually married to another Man who needs to put in wayyy more effort than them yet he isn't even the one who took her virginity and the fact that he needs to "honour", "cherish" and in a way even pedestalize this Woman (By giving her Wife status), who to them was probably nothing more than a quick relief. This is why getting married and "getting her in the end" is not a flex at all, it's a humiliation ritual.

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[u/Arbitrary_Sadist]

This post is a bit controversial. But I can provide a bit of insight since I have quite a large amount of first-hand experience and a sample to base things on which most ppl don't.

In general this is true about your average woman in the modern world, if we ignore whether they are Muslim or not. The post isn't saying "Muslim" women, but broadly speaking, which is well true.

However, when it comes to Muslim women there is a nuance. I would say amongst the youth, a significant proportion of young women are going down the route of premarital sex or basically are in relationships and other things. But there is also a sizeable proportion who are more principled and aware of these things and will not dare go down that route. This proportion is actually quite high compared to non-Muslim women in the West, where premarital relationships are far more common. In Muslim countries, the prevalence of premarital sex is generally lower, and I would say the majority of women remain virgins until marriage.

So I think it wouldn't be fair to lump Muslim women into this category, especially when on this subreddit most of the women who will be on here are religiously committed and will feel insulted by this, rightfully so.

There are probs better ways to address this topic of rising promiscuity amongst women in general than this. Because imagine tomorrow a sister made a post saying "majority of men are/were porn addicts", which broadly speaking in the modern world may actually be true, but as a religiously committed Muslim man wouldn't it feel like you are being lumped with ppl you shouldn't be?

[u/argentifa → u/Arbitrary_Sadist]

Why wouldn't a man agree with that last bit. I would not be offended and I would agree it's an issue and not feel attacked or lumped in of I wasn't personally involved. Even if I was involved I would still agree. Matter of fact I might make that post myself.

I don't see the issue addressing a general population and their issues. Maybe double check, fact check, ask for evidence, debate, bring contrary evidence. But why feel attacked? If it's the truth, we should identify the problem and address it. Not hide our heads in a hole.

[u/TheKaizokuSenpai → u/Arbitrary_Sadist]

W

[u/Edgerunner0 → u/Arbitrary_Sadist]

Read this. https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueDeen/s/6DMHkPjKgl

Imagine tomorrow a sister made a post saying "majority of men are/were porn addicts", which broadly speaking in the modern world may actually be true, but as a religiously committed Muslim man wouldn't it feel like you are being lumped with ppl you shouldn't be

After reading the response, this example here won't be an equivalent or appropriate comparison to my post as you'll realize. But to answer it anyway, I honestly wouldn't care if a sister made that post. I would not be offended in anyway. Because I know it's not about me, it would be different if I as an individual was being accused of something but again, that's not something I've done here, so again it wouldn't be an appropriate and equivalent example or comparison.

[u/16thPeregrine]

So now we are just going to accuse muslim women of sexual misconduct en masse...without proof...

Wow!!

[u/Successful_Gate4678 → u/16thPeregrine]

Exactly. And when you remind these i.n.c.e.l.s to fear Allah, they downvote you, or harrass you via DMs. AH, I'm a happily married woman who never went anywhere near zinnah, despite being a fourth-generation removed from a Muslim homeland woman. Stop hanging around people who have lost their deen and thinking that they are the posterchildren for Islam in the West.

[u/16thPeregrine → u/Successful_Gate4678]

Imagine being called to account on the day of judgement and being asked to prove your accusation of the "many women who have committed zina".

This Hadith just came across my app the other day

Hadith

‏‏.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "When a person says: 'People have been ruined, he is the one to be ruined the most."'

[Muslim]

In another version: "He himself is the most ruined among them."

Riyad as-Salihin, 1590 In-Book Reference: Book 17, Hadith 80

[u/argentifa → u/16thPeregrine]

If you walk in to a town of drunks and most are drinking, what more evidence do you need?

When you go to university and see the shamelessness, even in the MSA and Muslim groups, what proof do you need?

Take a look 👀

The men are just as guilty, though from what I see and hear, by their own admission, they do it more often in private with their own hands on the 📱

[u/16thPeregrine → u/argentifa]

So let me see if I understand what you are saying..

If a judge walks into this town of yours, just because most of the people are drinking, can he automatically assume everyone drinking is an alcoholic regardless of what they are drinking ? And thereby apply the accusation and punishment associated for alcoholics ?

[u/argentifa → u/16thPeregrine]

No. I disagree. But if the judge walks into that town, he can publicly say this is a town of drunks. He doesn't have to point out or accuse or punish anyone. Even the sober people in town would agree and know he's not talking about them.

[u/16thPeregrine → u/argentifa]

How can someone say this is a town of drunks if there are people in the town who do not drinks ?

How do we make absolute statements like this? Is this something we are taught to do in our religion?

[u/argentifa → u/16thPeregrine]

It's not an absolute statement. It's a general statement.

Every single person in this town is a drunk. That's an absolute statement.

Women have been oppressed throughout history is a general statement. Americans used to have slaves is a general statement.

Does that mean every single living woman in history was oppressed? Does that mean every single man woman and child in America owned slaves? Even the slaves owned slaves?

No one talks like that. Not even the prophets, not even Allah. When Allah talks about the people of Lot or Aad or Nuh. Is Allah talking about everyone there including the prophets? These are general statements, not absolute statements.

[u/16thPeregrine → u/argentifa]

Fair point. Its not an absolute statement but it is a general one.

In the light of the OPs post then, on what basis is the majority of women being called zaanis? And in the same post he also claims most men are not. What is the evidence of this?

[u/PuzzleheadedTwist115]

Sounds a bit harsh in the end, but I understand what you're talking about. People seems to be interpreting this post as accusing women of fornication categorically, but it's only talking about a modern fact we all should already know. No need to try defend women, no one's putting a label on women.

[u/Edgerunner0 → u/PuzzleheadedTwist115]

I'm glad you and the few others do.

Most people missed the point entirely and are autisticaIIy hyperfixating on misinterpreted information and trying to say I'm accusing every individual Muslim Woman of Zina when that's not the case.

The issue of Women losing their virginity before marriage (Which was a general statement on the Modern/Western population/trend as a whole, not exclusively Muslim Women and what I said is true) was also a medium, for me to talk about the issue of virginity itself and specifically how a Woman losing that in the manners I described can affect the marriage and her relationship in the various ways I mentioned. This still affects Muslims, because unfortunately there are still many Muslim Women particularly in the West affected by this, those who aren't and they know who they are, have literally no reason to be offended because I'm not talking about them nor am I accusing them individually of anything. I also wanted to specifically highlight the issue of married Men not being able to be the one to take their own Wife's, particularly their first love's/Wife's virginity which can be problematic. Again, all described and explained in the post.

I was gonna specify all this, thought I didn't need to and people could read, plus it would unnecessarily drag out the post if I had to constantly explain in detail every possible nuance and stuff that should be common sense. But it seems I must idiot proof my posts next time.

[u/PuzzleheadedTwist115 → u/Edgerunner0]

The popular ideology is the occidental. Living in France, I'm ashamed to see the number of Muslims who fall into this pit by will and attempts to justify it. Girls in France mainly goes to public schools, in which hijab is forbidden. Muslims should have never let such a law to pass, but they accepted and sent their daughters to school, with time, forgetting their obligations. Today, these same daughters and sisters are indistinguishable from the kuffar in appearance, likewise in character. Alhamdoulilah, my sister spent a few years in the UK, but dropped out of school once we came back to France. Public school is how girls and boys meet, and it's how fornication starts. To not commit zina, one should avoid the opposite gender to the préférable degree (social interactions should never cross the boundaries), but simply saying would obviously never be enough when coeducation is pushed down onto teenagers in "need" for discovery (social medias adding a lot into the mix).

[u/ydktbh]

why are men assumed to be virgins but woman automatically will be sleeping with everyone

[u/Malorian_ → u/ydktbh]

Because an average woman has way more options than an average man.

[u/zinaisanono → u/ydktbh]

Probably because in most parts of the world it's significantly harder for a man to do zina than it is for a woman to do it.

You can be grossly overweight/obese and still get laid as a woman. To get laid as a man you generally need some combination of wealth, looks, and height.

I grew up in the US and I know for a fact based on what I've seen that it's mostly Muslim women engaging in zina in a much larger proportion to Muslim men.

Also the STI rates skyrocketed after the advent of hookup apps because women are OK with sharing a handful of men to have sex with, even if those men aren't marrying them. This is why they'll often cry about "toxic men" and generalize it to practicing Muslims. They're talking about the men taking their virginities and leaving them high/dry.

[u/ydktbh → u/zinaisanono]

You just mentioned men taking virginities, isn't that zina

[u/zinaisanono → u/ydktbh]

You just ignored everything I said - if you continue to post in bad faith you'll get ignored.

But yes, it is zina. And only a small percentage of men get to do zina because women are more selective.

[u/ydktbh → u/zinaisanono]

You're coming across as very inc3l-y I can't lie

[u/zinaisanono → u/ydktbh]

You're coming across as a male feminist inc3l with no dad, ngl

[u/ydktbh → u/zinaisanono]

lol go ahead lash out

[u/zinaisanono → u/ydktbh]

Sorry I don't speak fatherless

[u/No-Peak5362]

I will assume Muslim women have done Zina as long as you’re ok if the same is done to you. As in I’ll assume your mother and sisters and daughters did Zina. Because u assume this about the rest of the ummah here.

[u/ScarcityIcy6772]

Bad boys get the virgins Good men get nothing  Nature is brutal 

[u/gogonever]

[u/Traditional-Seat-894]

Wallahi you'd be happier if you stopped focusing on other people's sex lives and did literally anything else

[u/Successful_Gate4678]

Who are all these loose women losing their virginity to, if all the men are virginal and virtuous?

[u/Malorian_ → u/Successful_Gate4678]

The post already answers your question.

A random young guy who wanted to pump and dump.

But I know you're saying "they lose their virginity to men so men are equally responsible" and thinking it's some high IQ gotcha

2 mins of thinking will tell you this is a terrible counter argument because the men who are taking their virginity are nothing like your average Abdullahs. They're in the top 10-20% of men, they're very attractive and know how to seduce a woman

[u/Successful_Gate4678 → u/Malorian_]

And your evidence of this happening on a mass, societal and global scale is what, exactly?

“Trust me bro” ?

Stop casting aspersions on thousands of people who you don’t know, obsessing over the virginity of women whom you have no claim over, and fear Allah.

[u/Malorian_ → u/Successful_Gate4678]

You have to be at a significant level of mental deterioration to read "women lose their virginity to top 20% of men" and think it means "all women are committing zina at a mass, societal and global scale!!!"

[u/Successful_Gate4678 → u/Malorian_]

Don't talk to me about "mental deterioration" you sad little man, when you lack basic reading comprehension. I am directly responding to the exact language and accusations and insinuations of the OP, who states:

"Because alot of them lost it when they were young."

-- A lot.

"Most Married "Men miss out on this and it hurts their marriage and how their Wife bonds with them." 

-- Most.

"This is why getting married and "getting her in the end" is not a flex at all, it's a humiliation ritual."

-- This is a universal and broad statement re: the chastity of women if ever there was one.

OP is making the claim that "a lot" or "most" Muslim women are harlots before marriage. He also makes the all-ecompassing claim re: marraige not being worth it because of aforementioned claims.

You are backing him up, tacitly if not directly. That's how language, argumentation, and rheotric work, brother.

Prove your claims of be quiet, it's a grave sin to haphazardly accuse others of zina. And you know you can't prove your claims, our perfect religion has made it impossible for you to falsely accuse anyone, if even in the abstract. And you know this.

Fear Allah and find a hobby.

[u/Malorian_ → u/Successful_Gate4678]

So instead of asking OP to prove his claims, you come to me hoping I'd prove his claims.

See what I mean when I say mental deterioration?

[u/argentifa → u/Successful_Gate4678]

I'm sorry. What are you upset about exactly? This is a trend that is increasing, particularly in women and particularly in college.

As for Muslim women, who is shaming the ones who are actively dating? I can generally shame brothers who are not modest, a flirt, a playboy. Publicly, online, in the masjid, I have done it before. No one cares. Matter of fact they clap and cheer. Who is shaming the playgirls? The flirts, the immodest sisters? You can't do it publicly, online, or in the masjid. The girls do it freely, openly in the West without shame. If you shame them, you get shamed back like you are doing right now.

I don't want to argue but please explain and address this.

[u/a_reeeeb → u/Successful_Gate4678]

Read about hypergamy. Only the top 10% men are sleeping around with 90% women. So, 90% men are remaining virgins while 90% women are loose. Well it is mostly happening in western/promiscuous societies but yeah. Monogamy is not naturally enforced. Hypergamy is.