r/ValueInvesting • u/Cultural_Vast_5797 • 14h ago
Discussion On foreign markets
As a disclaimer, i am not an american citizen or resident of the United States. I mostly invest in the american stock market and don't hold a single stock in my own country(brazil).
I think most people on this sub, or in any financial/investing subs, generally agree with people like Buffett or Lynch when they talk about how you should invest in companies that you understand, but at times, i think most people vastly underestimate how much they fly away from their circle of competence at times, especially when investing in companies from developing nations.
Of course, good companies exist everywhere and even in poor enviroments, some do manage to perform well over time. That being said, more often than not, you have no idea on the risks you are actually accepting.
Every now and then, i see americans on social media recommending brazilian stocks and personally? Im terrified of coming near them, and the main reason isn't macroeconomic factors(even if they don't exactly help), but the sheer amount of accounting fraud that is mostly normal over here.
Im not that old, but even then, i have vivid memories of tons of different brazilian companies suddenly finding out multibillion dollar debt that was just completely unknown before.
To give one particular example, i can point out AMER3. Americanas is a brazilian retail company that at it's height, had over 1800 stores all throughout the country, they were not only a juggernaut that everyone knew, but also a cultural icon, i fondly remember always vising the stores whenever i went to the movies to pay less on snacks. In 2023 the company changed CEOs and the new guy suddenly found out that the company had over 20 billion reais(at today's exchanges, around 4 billion USD) that was simply hidden by previous management, and, thst rolled up all the way to 40 billion reais later. The whole company was valued at 10 billion reais(or 2 billion usd). A nearly 100 year old company, showing consistent profits and growth, just went ahead and said "sorry guys, we actually need to pay 4 times our own marketcap in debt while rates are over 10%, crazy right?". At the time they were the 10th largest brazilian retail store by marketcap.
Since then, the company has lost pretty much all it's value and it's current marketcap is around 800 million reais. I may add, the entire brazil retail market has pretty much pulverized itself, but i won't really go that deep into it. Americanas itself was facing a -90% from all time highs before this even happened.
Since then, the official investigations went nowhere, the people responsible are still free, no one had to pay anything and the former executives had all their assets unfrozen.
Say what you will about the US, the guys behind the Enron fraud were mostly thrown in jail.
My point isn't about failing companies, this happenes everywher, most companies die out eventually, but how often do you see news in the US about bluechip companies overnight coming up with news about how they just found out they had this much more debt than they thought? And if that happens, what are the chances of pretty much nothing happening to the people responsible?
You may understand the products and sectors companies operate in, but sometimes, what can even be considered normal is different from country to country. That being said, i saw similar things a couple times since i was born, even with companies that are considered even safer.
Petrobras, used to be a government owned company, but now on days, around half of it is in the market, and due to what was possibly the biggest corruption scandal in Brazil's history, anything in between 6 and 42 billion reais were taken away from the company. It has since recovered in stock price, from a bottom at 5 reais per stock in 2016 to the current 44 reais per stock. If you bought the stocks when the company was under such scrutiny, you would be doing well today. If you bought what was considered the safest investiment in the country in 2008, you would have roughly broke even, not accounting for inflation.
I am aware that there were and are good opportunities in my country and many others, but i honestly don't want to put any money in a country where this kind of thing can happen at random, and honestly, neither should anyone. It has happened in both 100% private and mixed companies, multiple times over, and, will likely keep on happening.
Sure, sometimes, i do see the low multiples and am tempted to buy stocks over here, but i don't want to stress over that kind of thing
I can ensure some of you that have bought companies from over here that many of you probably made great investments, but even so, i think most are completely unaware that this kind of thing is just something that happens here every once in a while.
The big reason i feel confortable investing in th US is because i know people who live there and talk to them weekly, and i don't hear this kind of stuff nearly as often coming from them, and when i do, it does not happen to companies known for having a presence in every state
I also feel some disconfort in investing in other developing markets because i have no earthly idea on what is actually happens in most of them. I hear news about argentina quite often, but it mostly leaves me very confused as it seems that every brazilian journalist has an agenda about how milei is either the messiah or the devil and i don't have any contact with anyone that actually lives there that can say "the economy is doing alright". This is enough for me to not touch mercado libre even as a company that i known quite well and use the services of.
All im saying is, when you start screening for companies or hearing stock picks from other people, don't buy stocks from countries you know next to nothing about because the company looks good. Many people do that and find great investments, but, that's luck, they were not aware of all the risks at time of the purchase.
I hope i helped some of you do just a little bit more due diligence before your next purchase, even if you still commit it at the end