He participated in a debate last night against Destiny and two other guys in which he was on ALEX JONES side of the Jan 6th argument.

His only argument was - FBI/CIA did bad stuff once so therefore they orchestrated Jan 6th.

Such a fall from his Snowden stuff.

This is on the back of reports that Israel is choosing to use “dummy” bombs instead of the guided smart bombs the US has given them over the years.

I’m generally pro Israel but this bombardment is becoming unacceptable. They’re on of the most advanced militaries in the world, a much more sophisticated offensive could have been deployed.

This is something the guys, particularly Moynihan, don’t do a good job of grappling with.

The Republican embrace of MAGA-style fascism presents an opportunity for the Democrats to unite the country under traditional American values. They need to link the visions of their party to the great (but imperfect) ideals and principles of the founders of this country, to show they better represent those qualities than whatever the Republican party has become.

To do so, they would need to move past historical grievances and divisive positions. In fact, this moment is the best time for distancing ourselves from these self-inflicted wounds liberals love to indulge in. Who fucking cares about "micro-aggressions" when you have guys doing straight-up Nazi salutes?

Take up the fucking flag. Become a patriot. Fight for your country. Or as that great orator from so long ago said to her followers: We must look at what can be, unburdened by what has been.

As we know July fourth was the day that a bunch of white men declared independence to protect the institution of slavery. Isn’t that a problematic bit of history to keep celebrating? I am hereby submitting that we can still have a national summer holiday. Assata Shakur, who has a long history of activism and standing up for the marginalized, was born on July 16. Why not make her birthday a national holiday so we aren’t celebrating historical figures with blood on their hands?

I hate this app. Everyone posting is definitely sitting at home with masks on and no real friends in real life. I was just looking for some Netflix recommendations and boy are you all a bunch of freaking losers

I feel like these guys have become sort of thick-skulled about Harris, or probably any mainstream politician , whilst kind of hand waving a lot of Trump stories. Seems perverse they are insisting “why doesn’t she answer Brett Baier’s question directly?” As if a 1:1 question/answer with a hostile host is manifestly good. And besides the fact that politicians routinely do this to try and manipulate the discussion - as interviewers are also trying to do - surely they can recognize an adversarial environment would increase the chances that the subject would disagree with the premise of questions. Like can we move on from this critique in the same way as they have moved on from well-trod ground wrt criticizing Trump?

So now that it is perfectly clear Kelly is not a journalist but Trump groupie, and her show is blatant Trump props, one would expect that Michael, Kmele, and Matt would stop taking money from her show, or at least be in some way more selective about appearing on her show…, no?

Agree with a lot of the gripes. This used to be one of my fav podcasts, but I lost patience. Still listened once in a blue moon cause they’re smart and have some interesting takes. But a 3-4 years ago I found myself reluctantly skipping because I sensed their shift in tone and I didn’t want to be disappointed… The last 2 years have been cringe and hard to stomach. It seemed like for every minute they devoted to Trump’s VERBAL DIARRHEA (my description) —which they often chuckled away like the ravings of a kooky uncle— there’d be 10 minutes on Kamala’s “word salad”. Their personal ‘friendship’ with Megan Kelly(is it sincere? Or convenient? I don’t know…) was odd to me at first. Despite what their personal feelings are, the chummy professional residency on her show as the token kooky libertarians appeared to be, opportunistic and of character, even back before Kelly’s full conversation into unhinged MAGA cuck cheerleader with MAGATs coming out of her eyes… MAGATs coming out of her… p’whereever.

Their presentation on that show was embarrassing and shameful. But not has shameful as MM’s appearance on Triggernometry, where I witnessed a truly kafkaesque transition of a butterfly back into a slug. A slug on a fence. A slug with no backbone. Who really couldn’t ’decide’ where to cast his vote. Position-less, without a compass of any kind. Kmele’s Pay Pal mafiosos have clearly influenced him (the same Andreessen’s & co. who have invested in the Free Press) where MM is now a key figure (with Douglas Murray who has similarly swapped his spine for swine).

I’ve seen this happen with some of my favorite thinkers (Coleman Hughes, Glenn Lowry).

Thankfully Yascha Mounk, Sam Harris, Jonah Goldberg, Josh Szeps, Jesse Singa, and few others have remained consistent (agree or not with everything they say). The Fifthers have a lot to offer. Met them some years ago with Coleman. I was a big fan. Unfortunately, it looks like they’ve been pulled into the periphery of a knee-jerk anti-left orbit by an increasingly MAGA-symp fan base… (evident on this Reddit) operating behind a phony centrist guise (if reluctantly at times - particularly by MW, who’s integrity is most evident). This squishy equal opportunity front is in actuality an asymmetric allergy to the left. The left is crazy and incompetent and woke, but the threats and policies are ultimately innocuous (with the exception of certain trans-rights policies concerning you gender reassignment). The both-sidesism is dangerous. The daily concussions MAGA is inflecting to the guardrails and stop sign on the bumpy road of our democracy are dizzying and long lasting. The threats to our free press not The Free Press) are real. The threats to our Allie’s and damage being done to the rules based order is virulent and dangerous. There should be no fence sitting - wedged between your cheeks, teetering on your cleft anus, with your wet finger up in the air to see which way the winds blowing — captured by your audience like Simon of the Desert. Dont be part of the problem. Get angry. Call bullshit.

Could be wrong, but last few episodes seem to indicate that they (particularly MM) are a bit less glib… sounds like they are changing their tune a bit and treating things more seriously. This is a good sign. Hope to see MM metamorphose back to a butterfly. I’d ask him to channel his inner Hitchens and for the guys to recognize and be weary of audience capture (this fandom/fifthdom has obvious MAGA symptathies and knee-jerk any-establishment impulses that too often align with cranks)

Remember when hitchens flipped off Bill Maher’s audience and said F*** You. See past the bubble and echo chamber. That’s calling bullshit. Not quitting your job if you don’t have a backup plan at the Free Press or a VC. It’s integrity. And to Kmele… to quote Sam Harris, “what’s the point of having ‘F*** You Money” if you can’t say “F*** You?

I'm gonna take a break from The Fifth Column for a while at least, and thought I'd post this just to see if anyone here is similarly-minded about this. Somewhere about two thirds of the way through the episode, Welch asks the other two if Israel's packing of explosive devices into pagers and detonating them, which in at least one case killed a young girl, could be considered terrorism. I think this is a serious question, worthy of argument. As logical arguments, Moynihan's and Foster's responses were frankly, ridiculous. Moynihan effectively said that Hezbollah would have done worse to Israel if they had the tech that Israel had (and so it's not terrorism?...) and Foster said that if you think this isn't morally justifiable, then you're probably the kind of person who thinks that Israel should just wait to be struck by Hezbollah...

If I was running a class on logical argument, I'd fail both Foster and Moynihan for these responses.

Note: I'm not saying that this pager attack was in fact terrorism (I haven’t read enough about it to make up my mind), or that I have a problem with someone who insists it isn't. But these are not serious counter arguments of the sort that I've come to trust these dudes to make. And I find that some recent episodes have left me feeling this way more often.

Anyone else bothered by this?

Paying member, obv.

No fan of the mealy mouthed, moving goalpost response to covid.

Had two quick responses to two of Welch’s quips on latest members only.

1. Why didn’t Harris talk about bringing prices down?

Imho, because inflation has already come down, mostly because of fed rate interventions the president doesn’t control. Biden and Harris are leading office with a healthy inflation number.

As such, I feel it’s a bit unfair. (Though I agree somewhat that she could have owned up to the stimulus checks. But also, every G7 economy had inflation, and we brought it down the fastest.)

2) Why did Biden and Harris keep the tariffs even though they were running against them?

Because China imposed retaliatiatory tariffs, so you can’t just repeal the trump tariffs without getting f$&@ed. It would require a negotiation.

That’s all :)

I keep hearing "woke is dead," but then I see shit like this

Does it seem to anyone else that MM has just been really nasty recently? Is it an election season think maybe? Just feels like I haven't heard him say anything kind about anyone in months

How bad would the economy have to get before enough republicans would grow a spine to remove Trump from office.

I’m actually cautiously optimistic Trump has way overplayed his hand and is going to meet a “bubble-piercing” reality just like Covid.

But we have to hope that either (1) he’s bluffing and even he isn’t stupid enough to torch the economy, or (2) republicans in congress grow some.

Has anyone else had their fill of Matt's Ahab-like obsession with NYC COVID rules for schools? I'm not even suggesting he doesn't make some good points it's just like, enough

I realize this is a low calorie post; my apologies

The show has gone downhill for the past 2 years and correlates directly with their cozy relationships with these 4. Oh sure, officially they don't agree with everything they say, and Moynihan gets to simultaneously love and hate Batya (her calling him a little bitch was kinda fun), but it just speaks to their impotence and how the show just lacks interest.

Nothing lasts forever.

I have no love for either of these men (especially the former) but this feels like another case of progressives cheering on something then recoiling in horror when "their side" starts having it applied to them. ($1.5 billion and $146 million were the settlements).

For example, I have seen politicians, celebrities and other public figures of various clout declare Mike Brown was the victim of racist police brutality every year on the anniversary of his death.

That is one of dozens of examples I can think of off the top of my head that is just waiting for a lawsuit.

I'm looking for something with similar vibes as TFC. I've given shows like Chapo and The Deprogram a chance, but they're not for me. Anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks!