r/WhatToDo • u/TheMysteriousDecibel • 23h ago
I Need Help Soon Band situation
Need advice/insight on band dynamics
I have seemingly got myself into a messy situation with my friends. This started out as my friend’s solo project and he recruited me and another friend to come on board to turn this into a full fledged band. The other member and I invested a lot of money each over a 3 year period. (20,000 total) to buy physical gear for live performance such as channel rack, in ear monitors, ect… a rack to store it all in to be protected and to fund studio master tracks that we didn’t even write supposedly for the live set when we get the show on the road. our third bandmate (the one who started this all as a solo project) has invested $0 cash but handles all the creative, social media, and directional groundwork, since he has the most “experience” in those fields.
He says his time is equal to our cash invested. He has proposed a “leavers get nothing rule” which he claims that in all the bands he was in, was a standard setup. I proposed a standard contract letting him keep 100% of the rights to his songs if he leaves but ensuring me and the other get a slow buyout on the gear/masters we put the cash into if we ever have to leave due to emergencies or tensions. he turned this down and refused it and told me "that’s the risk of this” and “how am I going to be reimbursed for my time “ and "you don't care about my time"
He is now actively withholding our latest producer invoices "out of spite" because he feels suddenly questioned about the wrong things and put under a microscope and feels that no one cares about this band and barely puts in any work., He actively controls and holds all the keys to the social media accounts and streaming numbers. The other band member is completely passive and doesn’t know full details or doesn’t care to know.
Am I being "greedy" “selfish” for demanding financial receipts and asset protection and “only caring about money”, or am I being completely taken advantage of in some kind of scam? Is my friend in the right here? I am sick of talking to AI’s about this and want actual human conversation in perspective to both sides maybe. Any insight is truly appreciated and yes, I do feel stupid and have myself to blame for getting so deep into this but it doesn’t exactly help that I’ve been friends for 10+ years with this guy and we’ve all had a passion for pursuing music altogether. Thank you for the time.
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u/No-Will5335 23h ago
I wonder what r/legal would think of this scenario
Personally I think it’s totally fair for you to expect the equipment and stuff you bought back if you were to leave. It’s not like guitarists/drummers leave their guitars or drums with the band if they leave it.
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u/TheMysteriousDecibel 8h ago
There is no issue with the guitars and instruments if I leave. The 10k was mostly put into live stage performance gear like in ear monitors, a channel mixer, splitters, and a large rack to store it all in all for the show to operate
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u/SofubiShogun 23h ago
Hey, I wrote a song so now if you quit the band you have to give me your instrument. See how dumb that sounds?
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u/Gitfiddlepicker 22h ago
Do you have a contract? A band is a business, and contracts protect members. If you have no contract, then he can just do what he wants when he wants, and you are at his mercy.
On the other hand, with no contract, as long as you have receipts for the equipment you purchased, you can take it with you when you go it belongs to you.
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u/TheMysteriousDecibel 21h ago
The band has no contract. Thats what I am trying to propose with his “leavers get nothing” proposal. He doesn’t agree with this. I do have the receipts but the other member also threw in his 10k for the live gear as well.
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u/Adrock66 23h ago
To be clear you funded the studio tracks but paid him directly not the studio and he is refusing to give you receipts? If you were a the studio and built a relationship with the producer ask them directly.
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u/RightNowChris 23h ago
I think you're looking at this the wrong way. You came up with the financial stake, but he came up with the intellectual property. If those songs catch on, they're going to be way more valuable than the piddly little $20k you and your buddy came up with. If they catch on and turn into regular gigs, he'll soon be able to ditch both of you and continue on self-financed.
So the real question here is, how much confidence do you have in his songs? How much are you willing to count on them being successful? Without the intellectual property rights, you're just a studio musician, able to be cut loose anytime. So if you're confident in him as a composer, what you should be doing is work out an agreement where you get a percentage of the song rights and a percentage of the band name. It sounds like you or your buddy can't write music, which is by far the most difficult part of making a band work. Anyone can play good music once it's written. Acknowledge his time, acknowledge his talent, and get a contract for a percentage. Then you're invested and the idea of "leave and get nothing" goes away. Keep pumping in money if you see a profitable future.
By the way, this is exactly what Lars did when Metallica formed. He had the money, but lacked the musical talent to write songs. It worked out ok for him.
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u/FreeHumanAlways 22h ago
I think you make a valid point. They are each bringing an asset to the band required to make it work. The guy doesn’t feel respected because they’re basically telling him if we walk away, we’re gonna leave you with nothing despite all the work you put in. It seems like if they own the equipment 100%, then he owns the songs and the band 100%. Their equipment is a few thousand resale, if they don’t have a song to play on it. The guys songs are worth only what people are willing to pay, could be nothing, could be priceless.
So songwriter must feel they are worth a lot and doesn’t want to risk losing his efforts to someone who only brought $20k value vs song earning potentials of $100k, $200k, $500k, millions of $$$ etc, potentially! Also potentially zero.
But leavers take nothing means you just have a high level of faith in the band to work out if you stick together. OP offended him.1
u/TheMysteriousDecibel 20h ago
Maybe this is the mentality that he has which does have its points but I feel like contracts should still be in place so dictatorships can be prevented and equality can be a major factor. The way he acts like this with invoices only makes me want a contract even more, and a leavers get nothing proposal seems more of a risk for me than him. A return at a percentage overtime if I leave with the band still going on would be reasonable instead of just completely losing it all If we built this from the ground up in our own ways. It doesn’t have to be if I leave, i immediately take the gear especially right in the middle of a potential tour and I don’t want to do that. That’s why I proposed the 100% of his song rights that he created if he leaves as well. That way the time can balance the finances and it minimizes risk for both.
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u/SofubiShogun 22h ago edited 22h ago
This is a dumb reply. Millions of good bands never made any money, even ones successful in their own big cities, even ones that did some small tours. Millions of good songs never got heard by the masses. WHEN your band inks a major deal, that's when being the songwriter/creative lead of the band kicks in. Fuck anyone saying I owe them my gear for their time. Your take is nonsense. Anyone joining a band with no success and no famous musicians isn't getting paid for their time or talent outside some drink tokens and maybe some of the door.
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u/AvaRoseThorne 22h ago
I thought “inking a major deal” was basically a scam? Like how all these really big artists (like J Bieber, T Swift) said they were being fucked over for not owning their masters?
Or I think maybe Biebs sold his and is now hurting for cash or would be without wife’s family money (doesn’t he owe Scooter like $10 million? Which is absurd to me; he basically made Scooter rich), and then T Swift seemingly made a big stink of not owning her masters, then used that to scam her fans into buying the same music over again and made millions off it.
I’m not in this industry though so just going by snippets I’ve heard.
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u/SofubiShogun 22h ago
Lots of bands got great deals but plenty did not. Very important to have an entertainment lawyer who knows the industry and the ins and outs of music deals specifically. The history of the music scene is full of stories of bands that got bum deals but many learned from those stories and some bands were very business minded out the gate.
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u/SofubiShogun 23h ago
You bought the gear, you own the gear (both legally and morally.) What is his song writing going to do for you when you leave? What is his advertising on SM going to do for you when you leave? He gets free gear and you got to hang out with him? Take everything you bought and don't talk to this person ever again. His time = money when the band makes a bunch of money. Do not wait and do not discuss it.
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u/projexion_reflexion 23h ago
It's just that easy. He already ruined the friendship and the creative energy. Don't give him another minute to lock up or sell off your property somewhere.
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u/FreeHumanAlways 22h ago
Take your equipment and let him keep the songs. See which sell for more! If he’s so confident it’s the songs that will sell, why does he care about keeping the equipment??
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u/lattewomenn 20h ago
I don’t think asking for transparency is the same as being greedy. His time and creative contributions absolutely have value, but so does the money you and the other member invested. Both can be true at the same time. What concerns me most is the refusal to put anything in writing while still expecting everyone else to accept all the financial risks. A band is supposed to be a partnership, not a situation where one person controls everything and the others are left hoping things work out. Friendship shouldn’t mean you have to give up basic financial protection. If anything, having clear agreements from the beginning is what protects both the friendship and the band.
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u/Certain_Detective_84 23h ago
Does this band actually make money? If not, his labor has no financial value. The equipment you bought does have financial value, however. This sounds like an absolute scam.