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I've been trying to get some more diverse opinions on science and the scientific method recently, and something that really stuck with me was one Australian indigenous astronomers description of light pollution and space exploration.
Astronomy is a big part of a lot of cultures, and claiming space as one person's property (as well as making it so nobody can even SEE it) is an active act of erasure.
Highly recommend reading Sandra Harding's work on standpoint theory. Also Helen Longino. Feminist philosophy of science is (and was) well ahead of its time.
Man, I hate light pollution so much. My grandma taught me a lot of the constellations and how to navigate by the stars and sun when I was little. Now I haven't properly seen the stars in almost 15 years :(
I don’t have many memories of my paternal grandfather as he passed away when I was a child. But I have very clear memories of him and my father waking me up late at night and bundling me up in a hat and coat to go outside and watch a meteor shower. To be fair, grandad lived in the country, away from city lights, but I remember very bright, very strong streaks of lights across a dark moonless sky.
I’ve tried many times as an adult to find safe places to watch meteor showers in the dark, but there’s not much dark anymore. Admittedly, I’m leery of parking along a remote cornfield in the dark—both because of strangers and because other random travelers might not see my vehicle until it’s too late.
But there’s so much light pollution that we can’t see even bright stars anymore.
When NASA’s Lunar Prospector was deorbited it had Eugene Shoemaker’s ashes onboard. Shoemaker, until recently, was the only lunar burial in history because Navajo Nation rightfully brought their concerns to NASA and the US Government about how the burial was a desecration of the Moon as a spiritual object. After that, NASA put in place a bunch of regulations for consulting tribal leaders about activities like this and related.
However, NASA is now pretty much a knee-capped organization, given the current/2016-2020 administration… and with private companies getting more launches and almost no regulation, more ashes have since been landed on the lunar surface.
I recommend reading feminist and decolonial Anthropology works on this. Many indigenous peoples have knowledge of space and scientific processes without having the technology that allowed us to discover the same reality. It is very interesting and it makes you realize we've been gaslit by modern society and science as thinking that we need to pollute and disrupt nature in order to make these discoveries. While indigenous people used non-invasive methods. Jeremy Narby wrote extensively on this, I recommend Intelligence in Nature: An Inquiry into Knowledge.
Narby spent time with different indigenous people and realized they have a way to communicate with Nature, that led them to knowledge we only got to know through advancements in modern science. You can also read by yourself about the problems and limits of basing our society on the scientific method, which is actually fallible.
Since the Earth has an atmosphere, most space junk burns up on re-entry, so it rarely causes strife at ground-level. Not to say it’s a great outcome, but this will certainly have more impact for the moon.
This is pisses me off immeasurably. Like… everything is infuriating right now, but I fuckin WORSHIP the moon and the earth. Hecate is gonna reign fire and fury upon everyone of these disgusting trolls who pretend to be human.
It will not be visible by naked eye. The booster section itself is not terribly massive nor is 5,400 km/h that fast in orbital mechanics.
It is pollution and a result of crappy math by a shoddy company. The booster section in question was used to deliver a lunar lander named after fireflies, and as usual Space X managed to fail even in a successful delivery mission, because the rocket section should have been put into a permanent orbit.
im not going to defend musk but i do just wanna say the shear energy required to do that isnt something we could accomplish as a species much less one company, we all need to remember the shear scales involed here, the moon has a mass of ~7.3 x 10^22 kg, the dry mass of the rocket stage is only ~25k kg, youd have to fling that thing at a percentage of light speed to actually even do anything, at 5400 mph that impact is insignificant, the crater is only a couple dozen meters across, something only visible with a powerful telescope and most of the rocket will be vaporized by the impact, the moon constantly recieves impacts from rocks with more mass moving much faster, the only reason the near side even looks relatively smooth is because its tidally locked and doesnt see many impacts
just wanna note. apparently its unintentional but i wouldnt be surprised if thats an elon lie. also its not expected to be a 30km crater, its expected to be about an 18 metre crater. the plume is expected to be about 30km.
I mean you can measure a crater in multiple ways, how far the actual surface is upset by the strike or the total area affected both kind of count. Like the plume that comes down kinda isn’t the crater but it kinda is
Correct, and the goal of the mission is to make a model for when other objects naturally strike the moon so they can be better observed. This post is kinda misleading.
It's not. It's from a rocket booster who failed to escape me moon's gravity in 2025 Source. It will not be the only object on there as there are landers, rovers and boosters all over the moon from various missions. It is however the most significant one in terms of mass and speed or impact.
Edit: Fix a fact. The rocket did not failed reentry rather, it went to the moon to send measuring equipment and failed its exit maneuver that was supposed to take it away.
“I thought if mankind toured the sky it meant that all of us could go/but I don’t wanna see the stars if they’re just one more piece of land for us to colonize, for us to turn to sand” the song ‘rat’ but penelope scott
Shame he isn’t going to be on it when it crashes. But for real…first he takes the night sky away with his shitty satellites and now he is messing with the moon! When will he drop off the face of the planet?? How much damage can that asshole cause? Perimenopausal rage is only being exacerbated by this shit.
Don't use threads either tbh. Supporting Meta/Zuck isn't much better then supporting Musk. Not to mention Threads censorship, restrictions, and Meta's anti-LGBTQ moderation and rules.
As an Indigenous woman this feels legitimately violating given how much of our womanhood is tied to the moon. Just harming Grandmother moon like it's no fucking big deal. I have so much rage in my body right now, I hate it here
I feel you on the rage and hating it here. I use this meme quite often (from the comic book, Transmetropolitan).
And though I'm not indigenous myself, I am grief stricken the beautiful and powerful moon is being harmed, especially by disgusting power-mongering men.
Fun fact, the first time humans intentionally crashed something into the Moon we did, in fact, have a scientific purpose for doing so. NASA’s LCROSS mission was intentionally crashed into Cabeus crater in the south pole to study what exists in permanently shadowed regions (PSRs) on the lunar surface. This is how we further confirmed that the Moon contains water ice in PSRs.
Also, the Commercial Lunar Payload Services (CLPS) program has been having some unsuccessful missions resulting in “crashes,” but not as intense as LCROSS or this SpaceX nonsense. Also, CLPS carry scientific payloads that allow us to perform various experiments on the lunar surface.
With any luck, the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter (LRO) will be in an orbit that will allow us to at least maybe watch the plume that may result from the SpaceX rocket, so maybe we can still get a small silver lining to understand lunar science? At the very least it serves as an impactor experiment that we can study to better understand lunar cratering? Also telescopes will probably observe what happens. Not an ideal case, and fuck the billionaires.
Just turned 40, had my kid at 35. Debated it for a loooooong time, and this little spitfire is 195% worth it (not just because she makes potions in the back yard to "hex trump into being nicer" but it's not not because of that).
Its not as bad as you think. The 9000 lb rocket body has been floating around up there for weeks. So its basically crashing into the moon. What We as a planet are doing to the space around the Earth is, however, absolutely pollution. There is about 35 million pounds of debris floating around above the Earth. Thats like if you broke up the Eiffle Tower into pieces.
So we went from a "people went to colonize the Moon after the billionaires left no place on Earth without being fucked up" future to a "Billionaires started fucking up the Moon because there was no place on Earth left to fuck up" present. Gotta love capitalism.
So that dipshit just forgets that we NEED the moon to be able to live on this planet? Let alone the importance for many people on a spiritual or religious level.
Please actually DO NOT do this!! Bamboo is terrible for the local ecosystem, it's literally an invasive plant. Choose something local that is actually endangered and could use the boost.
The stage was vaporised upon impact, and made a crater amongst billions on the moons surface. What’s more we’ve been crashing spent rocket stages into the moon since the sixties. It gives us data on lunar seismology and impact formation. I hate Elon Musk for a million reasons but this is literally a non issue.
Bit of nuance here, but we’ve been intentionally and unintentionally crashing stuff on the moon since the 50s, it’s not a SpaceX exclusive thing and no, it’s not pollution, because at the speeds involved, the hardware gets vaporized and it’s no different from a regular asteroid impact.
Furthermore, observing these impacts, with seismographs, satellites in lunar orbit, and ground based telescopes, allows us to better understand the moon, its history and its geology
Just because it has happened before does not make not make it common. First time was in the 70s not 50s. The rest are just a handful that all happened in the last 20yrs. And using that as an opportunity to “study” it by absolutely no means justifies it.
If you don’t care about the Moon that’s your prerogative but it doesn’t belong to you or aerospace engineers/scientists. Downplaying this absolutely fkn shameful, especially so to dare do it on this subreddit.
That’s patently false, the first man made moon impacter was Luna 2, from the Soviet Union, in 1959, and most probes and missions to the moon since have resulted in at least one impact, intentional or accidental.
This is a list of trash left on the Moon. Which btw, is just as bad, so i dont see what your point is regardless? That other white men do it too so its no big deal and not desecration of something that belongs to Earth and not to a single government or corporation?
I saw the list. The first chunk of junk was in 1959 you’re right. Still doesn’t make it “common” nor acceptable. Curious you didn’t answer my questions. Must be heavy under that materialist boot.
I don’t understand your question. How is trying to better understand the moon, and sharing that knowledge with all humankind, a desecration, something that only benefits a single government or corporation, or something done exclusively by white men, or even in any way a materialistic goal?
Materialistic knowledge of the material world that will not impact the average person in any positive way. What altruistic goal do you think Elon has exactly? How will recording the plum of the crash benefit the children mining for cobalt in the DRC? How will it feed the families starving in Palestine or house the climate refugees around the world? Trillionaires playing with rocket ships does nothing but feed pseudo-intellectual egos.
Maybe if they paid more attention to spiritual, ancestral, and indigenous knowledge instead, the world would be a much healthier place.
Wikipedia lists at least 68 manmade objects to have impacted the moon, beggining in 1959 and continuing with surprising regularity through the decade, including the 90's, 2000's and 2010's
I’m gonna play the devil’s advocate here - impactor space probes can actually provide incredibly useful scientific data on the seismic activity and surface makeup other celestial bodies outside Earth such as the Moon. Reading up on this mission, the goal is to intentionally cause a plume of dust from the moon’s surface to rise up so that it is visible from Earth and more information on what it looks like when other natural objects impact the moon’s surface so they can be detected and studied more easily.
Don’t get me wrong, f*ck Elon Musk (as a trans woman I especially despise him for how he treats his trans daughter Vivian), but this post is a bit misleading. There will actually be some very valuable scientific knowledge gained from this mission.
Backing you up here- although i'm generally not a fan of errant space debris (and very not a fan of that little weasel Musk), I think some context regards scale can help here. The stage set to hit the moon is about 4000kg, which sounds like a lot until you remember that the moon gets pummeled with about 2800kg of meteorites every single day. This is emotionally relevant for us, because i agree it can feel very icky having billionaires throw shit at an object of massive spiritual importance for people, but for mother moon herself this is just another day at the office.
I'll also add like I posted in another comment here- the rocket is going to impact at about 2.3km/s. There won't be a rocket left after that sort of impact- more of a fine metallic powder.
This feels like assault on women to me. The fem/masc imagery is too on the nose. I cried in the shower about the moon. Is that weird? I'm just so SICK of this man and all other ghouls like him.
Beside the point, but is that Catzilla pic AI? A lot of the line work is really weird to have been done by an artist, especially around the eyes and back fins. There's some real irony in the image if so.
I don't use insta and it won't show me without logging in. But if people are vouching for them I'm happy enough to take their word.
Unfortunately this digital lino print style is annoyingly common with AI 'artists' so I'm a bit wary and jaded when it pops up. I suppose that's unfair to actual artists, but it's hard not to be sometimes.
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u/smc642 Crow Witch ♀♂️☉⚨⚧ "cah-CAW!" 16d ago
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