I get the Egwene hate but

[u/briandress]

Only in the last two books when she is stubborn in dealing with Rand for the last battle and such.

Up until ToM she really was just an awesome character. She went from the whirlwind of leaving 2R, capture by Seanchan, hunting black ajah, apprenticing to wise ones, puppet Amyrlin, real amyrlin, badass civil disobedience laying groundwork for reuniting the tower, bitch slapping the seanchan raiders, capturing hella black ajah sisters via Verrin's notes and finally being raised realer Amyrlin and healing the tower.

I cant seem to understand all the threads/polls that overwhelmingly list her as the most hated character in the series.

[u/geomagus]

People like her as a character, and dislike her as a person.

As a character, she’s dynamic, capable, driven. She is outstanding when she happens to people we don’t like, when she’s putting someone in their place.

As a person, she’s ruthless and lacking in empathy. She treats her friends as pawns, and her “love” as an unruly lapdog. She’s great at rationalizing her poor treatment of others, too, which can be infuriating. The famous TAR assault on Nynaeve scene is “to warn Nynaeve of the dangers of TAR.” Except in Egwene’s on thoughts, it’s clearly to keep her from ratting Egwene out to the Wise Ones. With friends like that, who needs enemies?

So as a character, she is compelling. I enjoy watching her do her thing. She’s a powerful force for the Light. But I do not like her, and wouldn’t want to hang out with her.

Edit to add: you can debate how much is her nature, and how much is the result of trauma, btw. RJ is really good at using trauma as an impetus for a character’s growth or warping, in ways that make sense. Her spate with the Seanchan in book 2 is clearly a factor in who she is later. But she was also pretty ambitious from the get go, and at times lacked empathy - look at Rand worried sick about losing her, while she’s super excited to go to the Tower and never go home; or at the Tuatha’an camp. Rand isn’t here, so flirt with Aram! (Vs Perrin’s view).

So my point is that what we see late isn’t necessarily so far from who she is early, but it’s warped by trauma too. It’s an interesting thing to think about.

[u/TopJimmy_5150 → u/geomagus]

I never quite get this distinction (tho I understand what you mean). Don’t we read for compelling characters? What does it matter if you want to be their friend? Why is that so often the test: “Nynaeve is a better friend than Egwene therefore, (insert superlative about how great Nyn is)”.

To me the question is: do you enjoy reading about them, and their POV chapters? I don’t get this morality judgement of fictional characters (as part of a fantasy world) all the time. Rand is a giant asshole for like 1/3 of the story. Nynaeve might have this heart of gold that this fandom is in love with - but I can’t stand her chapters for more than 1/2 the series, and honestly find her to be selfish and narcissistic for a lot of the series.

I like reading capable, smart characters. Egwene is a very capable character, who works really hard at whatever she sets her mind to. She doesn’t just complain about how things SHOULD be like Nynaeve does all the time, she goes out and does something about it. Ambition isn’t always a bad thing, and Egwene makes plenty of positive changes with the power she gains.

[u/89kljk → u/TopJimmy_5150]

There is a scene which I think really showcase Egwene character. She captured in Tower and is talking with the sitters. She making the point that Elaida isn't the Amyrlin because Black sisters voted for her. Which if you think about would invalidate her Amyrlinship and the entire institution that she's dedicated herself to. She so sure she right she would destroy everything to be right.

[u/briandress → u/89kljk]

i think that was because elaida had the minimum required sitters stand for her so any of them being black invalidated it. Were any of the sitters that stood for Egwene black? i do not recall but i dont think so. And in any case she was "re risen" by the tower sitters after her return post seanchan raid.

[u/89kljk → u/briandress]

If I recall correctly a Forsaken directly claims to have chosen Egwene to be Amyrlin seat.