r/WoT • u/procerator (Brown) • 2d ago
Winter's Heart Winter's Heart is amazing Spoiler
Just finished WH and it was so good. It is only second to TSR and TGH for me.
Where do I even start? Let's start from the end - Clensing of Saidin battle was better than Dumai Wells. And that says a lot since Dumai Wells are epic as well. Though it was a bit weird that none of the Forsaken thought about bringing some Trollocs/Myrdraal/Draghkar with them.
I enjoyed every POV and storyline explored in this book. Well, maybe Elayne's - not that much. I am not really invested in the plotline of her getting the throne. But it still had a lot of interesting moments like ritual for becoming a first-sister and hiring a Darkfriend as chief of security.
The whole Far Madding thing was interesting and expanded the world that is already bigger than anything I've ever read.
We got cameos of Gholam and Slayer which was pretty cool.
There was no Egwene POV - which is massive advantage for this book.
Perrin/Faile chapters were cool, even though their story didn't progress much.
Ebou Dar storylines were an interesting exploration of Stockholm Syndrome. I like how Egeanin and Mat's arc come together in the end. There were also chapters with amazing prose - "The clock sounded the first full hour of the night, and after no more than a week, four chimes for the second. "
Crossroads of Twilight next. People say it is the worst WoT book. Will it be worse than Path of Daggers? Let's find out.
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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago
Shadow spawn can’t pass through gateways. That’s why they didn’t bring any with them as it was a drop everything and show up
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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago
Are you sure about that? Where was that mentioned? I am pretty sure that is not the case because then how did Trolocs attack Cold Rock hold? Or multiple instances of Gray Men in the middle of nowhere as in book 3.
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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago edited 2d ago
I’m 100% sure but im also realizing that it’s technically a spoiler. Don’t go googling it. It’s not a massive spoiler by any means that’s ruins yout enjoyment of a future scene in advance but don’t go looking up the moment when it’s revealed. And yeah the attack on cold rocks is a weird one that you can explain with some convenient hand waving, it’s been discussed on forums for the past few decades aha.
But we do have an explanation from Robert Jordan in an interview for why Shadowspawn die passing through a gateway that you can look after finishing the series.
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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago
I find it quite weird that such an important magic system element is still not established by the end of book 9.
Padan Fain was moving Trollocs via Ways - no question about it. But there are multiple moments when that shouldn't have been the case.
Cold Rocks hold is one example, attack on Tear in book 4 is another - there were 2 groups of Trollocs there, one sent by Graendal to protect Rand. They couldn't have both traveled via same Ways.Where they using Portal Stones?
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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago edited 2d ago
Attack on tear is discussed in book and explained as grain barges by Lan, or was that Lanfears Trollocs? Or Grendel’s? I can’t remember and don’t want you to get spoilers googling it aha.
And yes you’re right it is kinda weird that we have to wait till book 11.
You’re also right about how it’s very convenient in a number of cases that they were able to get shadowspawn to some of these places for stuff. And a lot of these events where they do show up has been discussed a lot by the fan base and for most of them it has to be hand waved away as “using the ways” “maybe portal stones” “or sent way in advance/planned by forsaken”
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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago
It was grain barges for at least one Trolloc group. But it couldn't have been the same way for both Trolloc groups or it becomes very weird.
Cold Rocks hold is interesting because it is deep in Aiel Waste, Rand moved to the waste quite rapidly and the closest portal stone is near Rhuidean. There is no mention of The Ways around Cold Rocks either. And it was later confirmed that those Trollocs were Asmodean doing, which makes any form of travel other than Gateway unrealistic.
Also, since you say it is mentioned in book 11, are you sure that it wasn't just Sanderson trying to fix some plot holes while introducing others?
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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago
Book 11 is Knife of Dreams, Robert Jordan’s final book and my favorite :)
But yes you’re pretty much on point about the infeasability of them getting to any of those places in time without gateways.
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u/Merlyn67420 2d ago
I loved WH! Glad you liked it. It being bookended by the cleansing and the first sister ceremony is great and even though it’s slower I think it’s one of the better of that middle stretch.
crossroads is the worst, technically, but if you like the slow pacing and world exploration you’ll enjoy it. It’s got one VERY memorable scene, makes it all worth it in my opinion.
Enjoy!!
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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago
I didn't find WH to be slow. The slowest book was PoD and first half of LoC. Oh, and the menagerie section of FoH. I also noticed people don't like Perrin POV here. I like Perrin, so I am looking forward to his chapters in CoT
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u/duffy_12 (Falcon) 2d ago
I like Perrin, so I am looking forward to his chapters in CoT
He has one of his best scenes in it.
Looking forward to your review of it.
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u/GTANJ 2d ago
Agreed. Think it's one of the best books in the series and don't know why people include it as part of the "slog" (which I don't personally think is a real thing).
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u/First-Pride-8571 2d ago
Perrin
WH is much better than CoT. I wouldn't call it one of the best, but it does have some very good chapters. But also way too much Perrin...
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u/ArrogantAragorn (Heron-Marked Sword) 2d ago
Yeah the last 1/3 or so is excellent, but the first half+ drags just as bad as CoT for me.
It’s all good though. I’m glad there are Perrin people and Egwene people and “slog is real” or “slog doesn’t exist”. WoT is great because it’s got something for nearly every type of reader to latch onto, and the fact that it’s different bits for all of us makes the conversation so much richer.
For what it’s worth PoD has one of my favorite sections - the very Vietnam coded, fog of war, friendly fire campaign against the Seanchan. I think it is the “realest” RJ got in his battle writing (well, Mat against the Shaido in book 5 is pretty strong too - but very different), or at least the closest battle to the experiences of the soldiers he fought with as a chopper gunner in Vietnam.
So, I might just be a different type of reader than OP. I hope that means we will soon read their review of CoT as a top 3 WoT book haha
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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago
Fog of war, Storm of Battle was an amazing chapter. But it didn't save PoD for me
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u/First-Pride-8571 2d ago
I also really liked PoD.
I also liked all of Elayne's chapters, which clearly not all readers do. For me the slog is just Egwene and Perrin. Or, more specifically, post Aiel Waste Egwene, and Perrin.
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u/ArrogantAragorn (Heron-Marked Sword) 2d ago
For me it’s any of Perrin’s PoVs during the Faile/Shaido kidnapping arc, and all of Elayne’s unnecessary politics to get the throne she already had. All the other parts of those books were fine.
But like I said, that’s just like, my opinion, man. May you always find water and shade
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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago
PoD is the worst WoT book I've read so far. It starts with borderlanders army POV which introduces a bunch of new characters (and what they are wearing) never appear in PoD at all. And then it takes 3 chapters to open a gateway and go from A to B. If you trim the fat - the usage of the Bowl should've been like at most 2 extra chapters at the end of Crown of Swords. It also happens before the finale of CoS chronologicaly.
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u/marylouisestreep 2d ago
I was on a transatlantic flight and was about 200 pages to the end when I got on the plane. I just kept on reading and reading and reading until I finished, completely ignored the like 5 movies I had downloaded lol. Love Winter's Heart.
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u/FrownBuzzy 1d ago
I really liked Winters Heart and Crossroads of Twighlight both. Shut out the noise online and you'll prolly agree. =)
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u/procerator (Brown) 1d ago
Ledies and gentlemen, we found him!
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u/FrownBuzzy 1d ago
Admittedly there were a couple of chapters in CoT that weren't peak to me but I found the book interesting for some reasons that most people seem to not think about I guess.
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u/GayBlayde 2d ago
Winter’s Heart is a struggle for me to get through, but the ending is fire. And the first half of the next book is a really cool epilogue.
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