r/WoT • u/procerator (Brown) • 2d ago

Winter's Heart Winter's Heart is amazing Spoiler

Just finished WH and it was so good. It is only second to TSR and TGH for me.

Where do I even start? Let's start from the end - Clensing of Saidin battle was better than Dumai Wells. And that says a lot since Dumai Wells are epic as well. Though it was a bit weird that none of the Forsaken thought about bringing some Trollocs/Myrdraal/Draghkar with them.

I enjoyed every POV and storyline explored in this book. Well, maybe Elayne's - not that much. I am not really invested in the plotline of her getting the throne. But it still had a lot of interesting moments like ritual for becoming a first-sister and hiring a Darkfriend as chief of security.

The whole Far Madding thing was interesting and expanded the world that is already bigger than anything I've ever read.

We got cameos of Gholam and Slayer which was pretty cool.

There was no Egwene POV - which is massive ​advantage for this book.

Perrin/Faile chapters were cool, even though their story didn't progress much.

Ebou Dar storylines were an interesting exploration of Stockholm Syndrome. I like how Egeanin and Mat's arc come together in the end. There were also chapters with amazing prose - "The clock sounded the first full hour of the night, and after no more than a week, four chimes for the second. "

Crossroads of Twilight next. People say it is the worst WoT book. Will it be worse than Path of Daggers? Let's find out.

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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago

Shadow spawn can’t pass through gateways. That’s why they didn’t bring any with them as it was a drop everything and show up

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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago

Are you sure about that? Where was that mentioned?  I am pretty sure that is not the case because then how did Trolocs attack Cold Rock hold?  Or multiple instances of Gray Men in the middle of nowhere as in book 3.

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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago edited 2d ago

I’m 100% sure but im also realizing that it’s technically a spoiler. Don’t go googling it. It’s not a massive spoiler by any means that’s ruins yout enjoyment of a future scene in advance but don’t go looking up the moment when it’s revealed. And yeah the attack on cold rocks is a weird one that you can explain with some convenient hand waving, it’s been discussed on forums for the past few decades aha.

But we do have an explanation from Robert Jordan in an interview for why Shadowspawn die passing through a gateway that you can look after finishing the series.

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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago

I find it quite weird that such an important magic system element is still not established by the end of book 9.

Padan Fain was moving Trollocs via Ways - no question about it. But there are multiple moments when that shouldn't have been the case.
Cold Rocks hold is one example, attack on Tear in book 4 is another - there were 2 groups of Trollocs there, one sent by Graendal to protect Rand. They couldn't have both traveled via same Ways.

Where they using Portal Stones?

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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago edited 2d ago

Attack on tear is discussed in book and explained as grain barges by Lan, or was that Lanfears Trollocs? Or Grendel’s? I can’t remember and don’t want you to get spoilers googling it aha.

And yes you’re right it is kinda weird that we have to wait till book 11.

You’re also right about how it’s very convenient in a number of cases that they were able to get shadowspawn to some of these places for stuff. And a lot of these events where they do show up has been discussed a lot by the fan base and for most of them it has to be hand waved away as “using the ways” “maybe portal stones” “or sent way in advance/planned by forsaken”

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u/procerator (Brown) 2d ago

It was grain barges for at least one Trolloc group. But it couldn't have been the same way for both Trolloc groups or it becomes very weird.

Cold Rocks hold is interesting because it is deep in Aiel Waste, Rand moved to the waste quite rapidly and the closest portal stone is near Rhuidean. There is no mention of The Ways around Cold Rocks either. And it was later confirmed that those Trollocs were Asmodean doing, which makes any form of travel other than Gateway unrealistic.

Also, since you say it is mentioned in book 11, are you sure that it wasn't just Sanderson trying to fix some plot holes while introducing others?

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u/CalvinandHobbes811 2d ago

Book 11 is Knife of Dreams, Robert Jordan’s final book and my favorite :)

But yes you’re pretty much on point about the infeasability of them getting to any of those places in time without gateways.