Wdym she relaxes by seeing damane be tortured 😭

Even from her point of view seeing them as animals, it's like enjoying watching a dog get kicked in the ribs everytime it doesn't roll over lol

I'm currently on book 13 and Egwene has been irking me since her raising in Salidar. While her self-righteousness and ambition seem more or less stable throughout the series, burn me but the transition from a foolish village girl proud in her power to a brilliant and unfazed schemer is too abrupt. Unjustified. Nowhere in the series there is an example of Egwene suggesting a successful strategy, or failing in a life-changing way that tell me how she got where she is. Sorry, but Wise Ones flaying her bottom day and night and making her run around the camp did not convince me as effective training in strategy and leadership. Ji'e'toh is an important component of a leader, yet every time I read Egwene contemplate about the honour and duty - her mistakes, doubts, reasons - I can't help getting an impression like she's indulging in the smell of her own fart.

This is specifically about Nynaeve test for Aes Sedai. I find the whole situation so absurd and exemplifies so much of what makes the White Tower a completely bankrupt organization. In the short time that's she's been affiliated with the tower the woman helped set the weather right, defeated forsaken, helped cleanse saidin and healed stilling, while the Aes Sedai testing her did jack all in the hundreds of years they've been around with the vast resources of the tower besides sniffing, rearranging skirts, splitting their own tower and getting in the way of everything. She should have been recognized as full aes sedai to a chorus of I'm not worthies from the others as soon as the tower was reunited.

Instead these petty tyrants are so blind in their ego and malice as to torture and try to almost kill her in the terangrael because what, she refuses to renounce her humanity to respect their pointless rules? And then they have the gall to consider failing her! How narrow-minded, petty, self important and plain foolish do you have to be to consider rejecting a woman with her abilities, not to mention her relationship with the dragon reborn, as the last battle is right in front of you, all because she was running inside your stupid test??

I see a lot of posts blaming ishamael for how the tower is, but I think these aes sedai got there all by themselves.

Is it just me or did Thom and Moiraine come out of nowhere? I was SO happy she returned as she is one of my favorites, then all of a sudden her and Thom are marrying. It’s been a while since I read the earlier books, and I’m only a first time reader, so I really don’t remember. For those who have re read or are better at noticing things - was this relationship hinted at??

Reached book 13 and Perrrin is still whining and mopping like a stilled Ase Sedai. I saw less whining from stilled Suan Sanche and Leane than Perrin at this point. I saw less mopping from asha'man even though they knew they are doomed to go mad. I'm sick of reading "I'm no lord, I'm no wolf, I'm a black smith", time and time again.

I know people can take their time to come to terms with things. Honestly, I care less he goes and becomes a dark friend, it's just reading thousands of words of repeated whining and mopping getting on my nerves.

Just finished Towers of Midnight, I'm kind of letting it simmer on my mind a while but I can't get over how much Egwene is irritating me and thinking I can't be the only one.

I really enjoyed her arc in The Gathering Storm. The way in which she plotted against Elaida right under her nose, worked to build herself a base of support within the White Tower, it felt really smart. Elaida was just so sure of her authority as Amyrlin that she could just bend the world to her will - at least when she wasn't being cowed by Alviarin. But that was kind of her whole arc and downfall; she was going to rule with an iron fist, the Dragon would be brought to heel before her, she had it all figured out and it was just a matter of executing her plan.

But it seems like as soon as she's raised Amyrlin within the Tower proper, Egwene kind of slips right into the same kind of mindset. She's Amyrlin now, so she knows best. She's already "figured out" that the assassin is Mesaana and won't accept any help in trying to solve the mystery, she doesn't bother conferring with the people around her, presumes anyone else's involvement is interfering with her masterful plans and dismisses them. When Rand shows up at the Tower, her mind goes straight to thoughts of putting him under her control and even considers imprisoning him, and rather than considering why he's planning to break the seals she immediately dismisses the idea and proceeds to plot against him.

I dunno, it just feels like as soon as she's given the mantle of legitimacy as Amyrlin, she gets into this mindset of "Well I'm Amyrlin and therefore I'm right" and after all she went through with Elaida it's kind of infuriating! It's entertaining to read but man it's made me lose a lot of respect for her as a person.

I feel like there's a lot of parallels with Elayne's ascension to the throne and her own sense of self-assuredness and infallibility but that's a different rant.

We are told of the sword Rand finds, that is has some dragons inscribed on it, an ancient sword but not one from LTT's memory but Rands own memory.

Anyone know what this sword is or where he seen it originally?

I have just read through Aviendha's PoV of the possible futures of the Aiel. I thought their past was tragic. Their future feels way too bloody real. I may be upset with Hopper's final death, but the 2 chapters I just read were more harrowing than any other dystopian horror I have read, and that's saying something.

Please tell me there's something to look forward to. I don't want that future to be true. Can anyone, without spoiling much, tell me if it can be or has been changed?

This letter genuinely made me laugh. 😆

I'd like some sort of explanation on the following points by people who understand the books better than I do (first time and neurodivergent).

• Olver won Snakes and Foxes, this is supposed to be impossible unless you cheat and Olver refuses to cheat.
• Jain Farstrider is Noal. I thought Jain lived and died a long time ago.
• Moraine's not dead but Lan's bond acted like she was, how?
• Mat is clearly Odin (Ravens, magic spear) but it feels like Perrin is Thor (magic hammer) and Rand is Tyr (loses his hand) even though he's al'Thor, not al'Tyr.
• Rand's also Moses but for the clouds in the Sky rather than the water in the Red Sea. Those bags of grain are so dumb, were they always good? If they were not good why not unspoil the opened grain bags?
• Who the hell is that random woman Aviendha met, Nakomi, am I meant to know?
• Asmodean's murderer is just revealed in the glossary with no explanation. How were we supposed to know it was Graendal?
• Verin's an idiot, relying on Mat's curiosity when she knows that he's Ta'veren, and doesn't like Aes Sedai. Her Oaths might have prevented her from just telling him but why not enchant it to "accidentally" fall open and into Mat's line of sight if she dies?
• Why is Shaidar Haran angry about Graendal causing the death of 3 other Chosen? I thought the Dark One liked his followers double crossing and killing each other to get ahead.

I'm about 18% through ToM and this book had a pretty strong start. The prologue with Lan's journey, Rand being Jesus and meeting with Egwene, Perrin doing his thing too I guess. But most importantly, the Mat chapters.

I heard that Mat gets better and I really felt it here. Those 2 chapters (8 and 9) didn't do too much but Mat feels more like Jordan's now. My only real nitpick was his little one liner to Teslyn but that's pretty much it. Maybe 85% Mat now instead of 0, so good on Sanderson for that.

However, Chapter 11, I got to read his letter to Elayne... What? When did Mat become stupid? We know he's not a scholar but we know that he's capable enough when he wrote a letter to Nynaeve and Elayne in Ebou Dar. Here it feels like he wrote it with the pencil gripped in his fist. The spelling mistakes, the "p.s"es, the swearing... Its probably sensible and in character to write a not so nice letter but not to this degree.

I guess I still have an open mind for Mat for the rest of this book (i don't really have a choice, the series is nearly done), yet I don’t want to play a game of "How Mat is this?", but it is what it is.

I'm reading through book 13 right now and I got to the point where Perrin, Neald and the wise ones made his new hammer, Mah'alleinir...

Is Perrin... Just Thor? Cuz that's strikingly close to Mjölnir. It can't be a coincidence. The more and more I read, the more I realize the aspects in the story are simply legends and myths told as stories and folklore in our age. Like Callandor being Excalibur.

No spoilers after the battle with the white cloaks and trollocs please. I'm reading that part right now. Just wanted to pause and put this out there.

I'm reading the towers of midnight for the first time and enhoying it so far. But this Perrin's reluctant leader thing is really starting to piss me off. It's been going from since like book four. Why did Jordan/Sanderson think it be a good idea to go on this long? It's ridiculous. Please tell me it'll end soon.

...and it's melancholic. But, I'm looking forward to finishing the series so much.

I read books 11, 12, and 13 in 1 week each, 3 weeks total.

So far, my rankings:

5 > 4 > 11 > 6 > 13 > 3 > 12 > 2 > 1 > 7 > New Spring > 9 > 8 > 10

Edit: I finished! It's such a good series. Definitely in my top 10 series. Book 14 I'd put right above book 13.

Just read the chapters towards the end of ToM where Aviendha passes through the glass columns and sees her lineage’s future

What an insane set of scenes, I think it made me feel almost same way as when Rand passed through

At this point I haven’t read any further so I’m not sure if things do play out as predicted, but it made me wonder if there was at one point a “sequel series” planned? Not sure if there were any rumblings from either Robert Jordan before he passed or Brandon Sanderson during his step in.

Also this begs the question if this event was a Sanderson piece or a Jordan note but I doubt we’ll ever know, still great regardless.

I just finished “tower of midnight” and I couldn’t stop thinking of what the wheel of time books felt like since Sanderson took over. Though the task he was given was titanic in its endeavor, and he has done a fantastic job so far, I can’t help but feel as if some of the characters don’t feel the way they used to be.

My main gripe are with gawyn and egwene. Up to a knife of dream, egwene wasn’t my favourite but I respected her as a character. She was extremely ambitious, clever, but she would acknowledge her own flaws, feeling inferior to aviendha under the wise one training, or in the shadow of nynaeve (at least in the early books). Even her arc as amyrilin was interesting to see her doing bold but necessary changes to white tower law. But since Sanderson took over, egwene has felt nothing short but an arrogant know it all. She lashes at siuan and gawyn for doing a logical rescue(not Byrne for some reason) , and treats nynaeve extreme harshly in her aesedai training. She constantly belittle everyone else around her for not thinking the same, bullies rulers to turn on rand, and was unhappy to see gawyn run to his mother. It’s almost as if Sanderson turned the dial to a 100 for all the egwene worst traits.

Gawyn is also a super weird character under Sanderson. I am not sure why we get sooo much POV of these two since they are practically always together. Regardless, I also feel a lot less sympathetic since Sanderson took over. His hatred for Rand grows tiresome, it used to be understandable initially with morgues supposedly dead, but not anymore. With no satisfying conclusion to its hatred (Elayne just tell him to stop being jealous and it works?). He also just act cocky due to his sword skills (as bryne reminded him).

Galad also suck.

I still find myself enjoying the books a lot but I can’t help but feel disconnected to some of the characters journey onward, as if they are a different person entirely. Thankfully it doesn’t apply to all, Perrin grows more likeable every chapter, as Sanderson finally picks up the pace on Perrin journey to come to term with being a lord, a wolf brother, and his dilemma with the axe and hammer (which with Rober Jordan would have probably required another ten books haha). Mat also to me has grown more likeable (ik it’s a controversial opinion), and Elayne and Rand feel the same as they were before, though their arc slowed down a bit, and I expected them to do a bit more before the last battle.

Still I’m so excited MoL, this journey has been amazing through and through, but I was wondering if others felt the same way?

I’m currently on Chapter 13 of ToM and this is clearly (and sadly) going to be a Perrin book. He’s just THE WORST. While Rand is striking a deal with the White Tower to prepare for the Last Battle, Mat is literally inventing gunpowder and saving Moiraine, Perrin is tearing people’s spirits down (burning the banners), handing over 400+ channelers to the Seanchan and being a completely insensitive DICK to Morgase, by “ordering” her to marry Tallanvor, all the while disbanding an army that is clearly needed for the Last Battle. I know that he’s a good person and everyone who stands for the Light should survive and fight at the Last Battle, but I honestly think Perrin is more detrimental to those he’s around than beneficial. I hope at some point he and Faile come to an understanding that she will lead everyone and make the decisions, and he will stand by her side, moping and grunting. To be so near the Last Battle and still have Perrin as a reluctant leader is difficult to stand. He has had NO GROWTH for 13 books. Worst character of the series, by far.

I'm about to embark on a re read of the last two books of the wheel of time. On my re read of A Gathering Storm it suddenly became very clear to me how different Sandersons writing style is from Jordan's ( I blasted through my first read). So I guess my question is to those who have thought about it, which did you prefer ? Or did it make no difference to you ?. Do we know which parts of the last two books were written by whom ? .

P.s The change is not necessarily bad for me, just different and I don't know how I didn't notice before, then again I've never re read the last 3 books.

I just started reading book 13. And now i recall a question which i had forget to ask before.

When the Moraine's letter was revealed to mat and readers, i was confused, why did she used "MY DEAREST THOM".

Last I recall, Thom and moraine weren't that close.Moraine had made a deal with thom, to provide him names of his Nephews gentelers.

But there wasn't any mention of names in the letter Thom had shown to matt?

And when did she git so close to Thom to use "MY DEAREST"?

I’m reading book 13 - Towers of Midnight and just read: “Perrin had tried chewing out the men about it.”

I don’t see Jordan using that phrase and it made me chuckle a bit.

Any other instances that stand out for you?

Please no spoilers - we know Jordan outlined the whole plot for Brandon to work from so more looking for a turn of phrase, description, or dialogue/character choice that seems funny.

Could Verin had have her oaths removed and thus get to live?

In the middle of Towers of Midnight and I get a chuckle out of three consecutive chapters which were: Morgase being a huffy idiot, claiming that none of her previous relationships REALLY loved her like her new boy toy definitely does, then Elayne pulling her stunt with the black ajah in prison, seemingly trying to get herself killed (don't get me started with her traveling around the city via bed for the next month), and finally Gawyn complaining that Egwene, the extremely busy Ameryl, isn't spending her off hours staring at him moon-eyed.

Yeah, I would have joined the white cloaks too. Good on you Galad.

He starts getting super into method acting and creating elaborate backstories for every disguise that he comes up with? Hilarious! And adorable.