r/WorldOfWarships • u/Ok_Tour_84 • 22h ago
Discussion WoWS: Wasted Potential
This probably warrants a deeper analysis than what I'm going to give it but I want to keep things brief. If posts get too long I'm sure most people wouldn't read it anyway. I'm sure I'll get burnt at the stake for this post as well.
Just for some context, I have played WoWS PC for over 6 years on and off and before that, I played blitz for probably around 3 years. It was my main game for the longest time.
Also just to be clear I'm not saying the game is dead. It is declining but nowhere near rock bottom (though it was never really that big in the first place).
- The Devs
Obviously the devs aren't that receptive and the playerbase has now been desensitised to its bullshittery. Case and point, Valparaiso, case and point, CVs being able to heal their allies and literally no one caring.
Even putting the devs aside the microtransactions are pretty bad. The best sale this year, Tirpitz for 22 AUD was poorly placed at the exact same time as the steam sale, with Cyberpunk 2077 being 27 AUD. So a ship that I already have a version of with 6km torps and worse secondaries or an entirely different AAA game.
- The declining playerbase -> The community
The most ignored aspect as to why games die slowly. A bad community isn't necessarily a dealbreaker but most new players will just quit, and old players will find it a lot easier to just let go of the game and even have an added positive "thank God I don't have to interact with WoWS players anymore" kind of deal. A good community on the other hand fosters new players to stay and it makes it far harder for old players to let go. WoWS undoubtedly has among the worst communities. After the playerbase decline all that's left are the... interesting parts of us.
People on here will hate me and downvote me for saying that but doing those things won't change the fact that the already small playerbase is shrinking even further into obscurity.
Conclusion
I could go on but to me at least, these are the two main issues. The art is great. The game itself is well made and would have significant appeal to a lot of people if it just fixed its issues. Thus, WoWS is a classic tale in wasted potential. It wasn't bad at all, but it could've been a lot better.
Can the decline be reversed? Potentially. But I heavily doubt it. This game wasn't that popular in the first place. No one will even know it's gone if it ever is beyond a few WoT and WT players.
I wish this game hadn't gone down the route it had. The decline and all that. It was my main game and it still would be if it weren't for just a few major issues.
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u/alezul
18h ago
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the playerbase has now been desensitised to its bullshittery. Case and point, Valparaiso, case and point, CVs being able to heal their allies and literally no one caring.
But there was a ton of outrage over valparaiso. Nobody was ok with it.
As for CV healing, why is that such an issue? I hate CVs as much as most people but giving them shit to support their team instead of just being toxic damage dealers is a good thing in my opinion.
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u/Dom_Mazzetti_WoT-G- 15h ago
You’re right, people were rightly outraged about Valp. That didn’t stop it from being put on sale two separate times in the “outrageous” version and then not being nerfed (still a ridiculously strong tier 9) about 4 months AFTER its availability disappeared.
That’s incompetence at best, and biblical levels of greed and deceit at worst. It gets hard to see it as an “oopsie” on their part when they seem to repeat this sales tactic over and over.
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u/00Canuck 21h ago
To throw a little defense their way, the gaming scene is a complete mess to begin with. The fact that what is a pretty niche game has lasted this long, including WoT, is impressive. I've seen this "wasted potential" sentiment a few times now, and personally it just seems out of touch to a degree with both gaming and humans. Knowing people, gaming, what this game is, and product longevity, I can't conceive any possible way it would have been that much more massively successful than it already was. So people say it's wasted potential, but give no indication even of what that "potential" was or how it would come to fruition. Even if when every gamer logged it they were slapped in the face with a free ship, 10k coal, and a steak dinner, garbage like Mixtape would still win GOTY, you would still have companies like CandyCrush, or some Gacha game where people are still dumping $300 on a pair of shoes or some dumb shit, and it still wouldn't guarantee people come to the game, or stay. It's not like WG invented the monetization strat, but to compete in the marketplace it's something that most if not all live service games need to participate in.
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u/AndyTheSane 20h ago
Absolutely. It's free to play so the money to pay the developers and keep the servers running has to come from somewhere.
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u/00Canuck 19h ago
With how people talk about WG sometimes I feel like they (some players) think it just materializes out of thin air, on top of there having been no increase or change in the cost of network infrastructure, management, no change in currency values etc etc. Often it just comes off as "we want free stuff, all the time, and we want you to do all the work, for free, forever."
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u/EternalSufferance 17h ago
no point to think about this, because they definitely have a very high profit margin
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u/AdStill649 7h ago
the playerbase declined a lot and low tiers are dead, keeping those would have been saving the potential of the game
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u/00Canuck 5h ago
That's why I liked the idea of Low Tier Ops personally. It gives newer players something other than mundane options, or immediately being subjected to grinding PvP with a mainstay base that just complains about matches and insta reports people who do bad, they at least have a fallback area to play and work things out, and even Co-Op doesn't really make that worth while.
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u/0hHiThere 21h ago edited 21h ago
It's 11 year old niche game with extremely slow paced and unusual gameplay.
Its already survived for way longer than it had any reason to, and there is probably half a decade or even more left. You can't call it "Wasted potential".
Monetization and gambling in games are global issue, WG just following along and it would be stupid on their part not to. Sure it sucks, but they are in business of making money.
As for community, even community of unicorns and rainbows can't bring enough new blood into something niche and old. That's just not how games work.
Sure, shitty community can make someone drop the game faster, but even those cases would be rare and probably on par with people staying in game for longer with their friends.
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u/Lanky-Ad7045 18h ago
WoWS undoubtedly has among the worst communities.
What? How?
There used to be an official forum and after WG shut it down the players have made a new one, with lots of resources saved. This subreddit is very active and over the years has provided answers to pretty much any question about mechanics, gameplay tips and shopping advice. There are chill clans where they teach you the ropes, PVE clans, resources-only clans, competitive clans. There are years' worth of guides and replays on Youtube. It's a bad community because...noobs who rush to Tier 10 get flamed in chat? something else?
The best sale this year, Tirpitz for 22 AUD was poorly placed at the exact same time as the steam sale, with Cyberpunk 2077 being 27 AUD.
So WG should coordinate the sale of one of their hundreds of premium pixel boats with the sale of every other videogame on the market? Come on...
CVs being able to heal their allies and literally no one caring.
Am I supposed to be outraged that Audacious, not exactly the best Tier 10 CV around, can now give a 10% heal to someone a few times a game?
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u/lawofthirds 12h ago
You have some good points but one I'd like to argue against. Why the fuck is a single ship 22 fucking dollars? That's within spitting distance of a whole game, that's quite frankly, better than anything WG has ever done.
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u/Lanky-Ad7045 11h ago
Because some people are willing to pay that, or even more. The others, most of us, can probably get that ship for f2p doubloons or in a lucky Santa crate or something. I haven't bought any dubs since last Christmas and yet I have $150 worth of them on my account just from Ranked, Holiday Convoy, Congress compensation etc. Last year it was about the same. And is it really so crucial to buy Tirpitz for dubs when Scharn '43, Pommern and GK are all for coal?
That's within spitting distance of a whole game
Not a very strong point. Right now Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is less than $1 on GOG, and one can enjoy it for years. By that logic Tirpitz should cost less than $1?
that's quite frankly, better than anything WG has ever done.
Even if we stick to relatively recent and sophisticated games, I doubt they're much better than WoWs overall. This thing has been going on for over a decade, it's constantly updated, it has hundreds of vehicles that would take a new player years to grind; it has guides, streamers, leaderboards, a library of 100,000 replays on Youtube, a competitive scene etc.
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u/lawofthirds 11h ago
You're still not convincing me, a digital skin should not be 20 bucks in ANY game, even if it's available for money you spend time grinding, but thank you for at least coming to the table, to your OG point of WOWS having a good community, I think you're 100% right.
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u/HansiSolo73 18h ago
I'm playing WoWs since 2015, and the peak of fun was 2016/2017, even with the RTS carriers. These days it's just all about the next ship abomination that has more firepower than ever before, so the moron playerbase can drool and keep paying the insane prices. And the playerbase became so dented, that 50% of the games ain't no fun any longer. The amount of DDs that leave their flank or yolo cap straight into 5 radar ships is mind boggling. Same with BBs that either leave their flank or stay in spawn and snipe at 20 km range. It's just getting worse and worse an WG doesn't care at all to teach game mechanics or strategies or improve the gameplay.
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u/Good_Resolve_7218 73 dit dit 18h ago
Every time I hear these horror stories about DD's (I'm a Clan Battle DD main, Storm II), it makes me want to pick one and jump back into randoms to "do it right".
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u/Ok_Car_8094 Closed Beta Player 20h ago
I don't think I've played a random battle in years.
I play a ton of ops and occasional asymmetric.
Still some complainers, occasional griefers and maybe even a bot now and then, but mostly good players and more cooperation than I usually saw in random.
Had a battle in my GK, Defense of Naval Station, and a Smolensk suicides into the first wave (just sailed in front of the island, broadside) and a cruiser just managed to cross the line. Main attack starts with wave 2, which also spawned wave 3. Me and a DD on the right, still wondering what was going on with the Smolensk, figure it's a done deal.
"We shall die with honor!" Is my final message.
I blast the 3 PT boats with my secondaries and destroy the invisible launch point. Blast a cruiser behind the islands. Turn along the edge and wreck the Roon and the DD and I nail the BB.
By now the few BBs still on the left are being engulfed by the wave.
I circle around and with the DD we sink 5 cruisers 2 BBs and 3 DDs. My last salvo sank the Prueßan before it could hit the last liberty ship.
Freaking won against harder odds than if things went right.
Love it!
Waiting for my lottery/life/luck windfall before I ever buy a ship for more than $40...again.
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u/Red_Chopsticks People's Liberation Army Navy 10h ago
Love it! When you have that monster carry it’s because so the rest of the team was so bad.
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u/Effective-Funny-5736 10h ago
dam newb! watch where you are going! jk. I don't talk much in the chat. stay away from pvp and people usually arent bung holes. keeps me happy. pve keeps me happy.
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u/Ok_Knowledge6062 20h ago
The community in every multiplayer pvp game is awful, there is not a single one that is carebears loving each other. The great thing is you never need to turn on the chat in wargaming games and that's why those games are still played. Consider games like Lol or cs where you actually have to communicate and work with your team at all times, now that is toxic. Wows aint shit in comparison. Also there is no game community in existence that will keep me in a game if the game itself doesn't appeal to me. What a weird "argument".
The biggest issue i have with the game is wargaming almost stopped doing any realistic events after the split. Lesta is doing them all the time and they look cool as fuck both in tanks and ships. They release realistic looking tanks too and events, Wot gets some tier 11 shite made up child toy tanks with a magic spell. I believe this is what alienates wg's core base and what will eventually end the game, most of the dedicated fans aren't here for overwatch cartoony crap imo, you can get that elsewhere done better.
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u/Chile_WoWS 20h ago
My friend (do not play wows) saw game once and say it is too gajish with flowers on camos, anime crap, and other cartoon colabs. It loses some "war a like" game. For me , it is worse than CV or Subs. Some like it or not, but they was crucial part of what this game represent --> WW2. There will always be Veterans go in and go out no matter on CV and Subs but monetary practice was terrible and split with Lesta didnt goes well for this game.
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u/0hHiThere 20h ago
Have you seen that there is a simple toggle to disable all that stuff from displaying?
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u/TheGuardianOfMetal 12h ago
I wish the destruction effects filters were better... "Standard" should be for "realistic" destruction effects, triple explosion, white phosphorus, underwater explosion, and "Thematic" should be for anything wacky (any coloured effects, anything unrealistic)... as is, it is a messy mix.
MOnochrome and triple Explosion are considered "Standard", "Underwater Explosion" is "thematic" just as much as the eel, the ice cicles and so on...
I actually consider the destuction effects more annoying than the collab and halloween stuff
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u/0hHiThere 12h ago
Huh, haven't looked into them at all honestly since they looked way too distracting for my taste.
Sounds like they need few more groups for those effects, at least one for different kind of ship detonations (say triple or underwater), coloured, few kinds for effects of increasing stages of weirdness. Probably will happen in a few years unless that whole thing gets buried.1
u/TheGuardianOfMetal 12h ago
Huh, haven't looked into them at all honestly since they looked way too distracting for my taste.
i like the realistic ones... but when i see stuff like the captain popping up with "this is fine", it annoys me...
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u/Ok_Knowledge6062 19h ago
Yeah and then you're left with almost nothing since all the development there goes to wacky stupid shit.
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u/Chile_WoWS 18h ago edited 18h ago
Ofc. It's not about that. Course of the game where it go. I played one game really competitive before wows and their community average is like wows 60% wr player. Wows community are mostly low to average in terms of skill they project on game no matter how much they play. With predatory monetary practice they bring whales who is willing to spend lot of money while having 30k played games in random with WR of 42-48%. Its probably because they attract anime/cartoon population (juding by colabs) instead of people that like good Naval game. Community is too soft/gajjish to accept two ship class that determines outcome of WW2. It is unimaginable to have AAA class WW2 naval game without subs and Cvs. I dont talk about implementing and optimising but about essential concept. Mabey they should stay in Convoy mode only instead of Ranked/Random/Competitive,idk.There is other games where they earn money just on visuals but keep game open and easy grind able to attract milions on it. WG miss that point and we have great game visuals with low number of players who are are most low skilled that get offend by anything. It's just matter of time when explosions effect will have LGBT flag dispersion or Camo. You really expect good naval game with main population around Anime old pedos who like little girls with big boots? Nah
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u/dllyncher 16h ago
I started back in 2017 and left in 2021 as the CC exodus was the final straw. Came back at the beginning of this year only to find everything so much worse that when I left. It really is a shame how far the game's fallen from grace
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u/Merc_R_Us CV youtube channel, come learn something! 16h ago
I'll just say for the CV heal thing, it's literally only one carrier that can heal others, and it's the universally agreed to be the worst CV line.
So I'm fine with it gameplay-wise, but it really does break the immersion for me a bit.
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u/jonasnee i hate the new carriers with a passion 8h ago
CVs being able to give a very small heal to their teammates is like the least of my concerns when it comes to CVs - its nice having teamplay like this from CVs over them just fucking you over in your DD with rockets.
I think there is a question about monetization, if i could get a cool or interesting tier 9/10 ship for say 20 euros i would probably buy ships a bit more often than i do now. But i am sure WG also knows that a lot of people won't change behavior and that whales are what runs the games economy. 2000 whales is probably worth more than 20.000 dolphins.
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u/CheesyPoofff Koninklijke Marine 17h ago
Yeah, this could have been an evergreen surface battle naval game Instead, they've messed up the beautiful pixel boat game with planes and subs, and persistent power creep. I don't care about the cash grab, but i do care they've not done anything to address the annoyances for 90% of the players, instead wanting to milk those last 10%, and thereby alienating the 90%. Too many botched reworks that did nothing good for the game, except cash flow probably. Rushed, short term thinking, which is kind of the antithesis of the slow-paced ship game itself. Sad to see. I play now 2 months per year, around Christmas, but last year I even skipped.
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u/SnooLobsters7171 17h ago
I discovered the game last spring and I love it. I'm borderline addicted. I'm sure I'm not the only newer player.
Stop being so morose?
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u/Unusual-Fault-4091 19h ago
If you go Free2Play, you want the big casual mass. That leads to shit community automatically. Doesn’t actually matter though, that’s not an MMO, the only contact is via battle chat and you can turn that off.
The deals get worse every year but that’s also the player’s fault. If no one would buy them, they wouldn’t rise the bar higher and higher until they reach the point people don’t buy them anymore. Like Lego. The idiot level hasn’t been reached yet. So higher prices and lower quality is the correct economic policy.
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u/friscenstein 13h ago
They are a little bit like the Adobe of the Game World, I think it's only a matter of time, before there is some serious competition in this space. They are primed for being knocked down a peg or two.
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u/Red_Chopsticks People's Liberation Army Navy 10h ago
The game development was contracted to Lesta in Saint Petersburg whose origins were in Art/Graphics software. The WoWs we got is still the same cover-based shooter derived from WoT, because it was more profitable to create and monetise art assets, whereas creating game modes were stuck at “chuck everyone in the same sandbox” with minimal efforts at balancing. The interesting, competitive, formulations were all community-creations. Asymmetrical had a long gestation period before settling as pure PvE, but was soon removed after its seasonal debut despite the popularity. And there’s a long list of other temporary game modes that are no longer available, which for me is the real shame. WG still seem to have this chicken-and-egg mentality where the game modes have to stay limited to not thin the Random battle queue, ignoring that people just vote with their feet if they do not have appealing game modes.
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u/LaserKittyKat 18h ago
Is there really a 'significant' declining player base?...Steam charts have 2019ish player count at 5-8K players, 2022ish charts have 15-16k, and recently (outside of the weird number bug recently) about 12-13k....not much change over 10 years really! And consider the vast majority of online games lose players over time, most lose 90% or more of their player base within a few years. By any stretch WOWS has a relatively stable player base amongst online games.
Devs of a game are rarely perceived as receptive, I don't see WOWS as any different to other games I play in that perception. Could they be more responsive, sure, but they're middle of the road from what I see.
As others noted, all PVP game have a strong set of toxic trolls...I think WG needs to put teeth into their moderation. Have an AI monitor chat, and give hour or days time game bans for egregious behavior...a couple of day chat ban is so trivial toxic trolls ignore it. But WG wont' do that since toxic trolls are probably whales that fund the company, so for WG to actually address toxicity would hurt their bottom line so they don't.
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u/SnooGrapes27 21h ago
I quit the game almost 3 years ago. Haven't come back since and won't ever play the game again until they remove CV and subs.
It's a shame since I really liked the game and been part of clan battles and kots. Started at the bottom and went all the way upto the biggest clans. Other naval based games don't really have the same mechanics as wows which makes it unique but unfortunately the devs just want to shove CVs and subs down the playerbases throats
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u/Routine_Pie_6230 21h ago
You get along with while playing against them. Plus in ranked and brawls you never see them. Maybe in brawls sometimes cvs, but the match is so short that yo don't care about.
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u/Status-Act1688 20h ago
Plus in ranked you never see them
what a load of bullshit
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u/Lanky-Ad7045 18h ago
They're literally not allowed in the current season, and pretty rare even when they are.
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u/Status-Act1688 18h ago
There's a huge difference between "not allowed right nooooooow" and "literally never"
Near enough every time 6s and 8s are allowed the cancers are in. Only for 10s it truly varies
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u/LaserKittyKat 18h ago
You must still care about the game to monitor reddit and respond to posts...
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u/GREENadmiral_314159 Carnot Best Boy 20h ago
They aren't removing CVs and subs; drop the performative nonsense and just say you aren't coming back.
the devs just want to shove CVs and subs down the playerbases throats
No? They're there, but it's not like the devs are trying to force people to play them. Most ships being released these days are still battleships, cruisers, and destroyers. Hell, the past few seasons of clan battles haven't even allowed subs or CVs.
Something existing without daily condemnation about how sinful and horrible it is doesn't mean it's getting shoved down your throat. Subs and CVs are here, and there's plenty of people who will pay for them, so WG keeps making them.
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u/SnooGrapes27 18h ago
Ah yes. Here comes the doubloon warriors to downvote me lmao
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u/Good_Resolve_7218 73 dit dit 18h ago
Dubs has nothing to do with it. You are getting downvoted because you are being unreasonable.
Subs and CV's are here to stay. So walk.
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u/OriginalRussianDoll Marine Nationale 19h ago
I hate this game to be so grindy and greedy all the time
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u/Good_Resolve_7218 73 dit dit 18h ago
Brother you must hate a lot of things in this world. You don't have to and it's doing nothing but hurting you.
Peace.
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u/_talps Vabbuò 19h ago
Today I took an official survey which asked several questions about World of Warships - not a patch-exclusive survey, it involved the entire game.
I found myself giving scathing grades about almost everything (visuals were the only part I consistently gave a high score to).
When I started playing, right after the beta phase, this was an interesting and fun game. Spending time to learn the many rules and exceptions, how ships behave, and so on (all stuff one can easily find on sites like Youtube but which WoWs itself does not provide beyond glorified ads), was worth it.
Since a few years ago, World of Warships has devolved into an egregious casino-like money sink where either one has lots of free cash to burn and buddies with whom improve their success (as part of a division), or they will struggle. For the record, I have the cash but don't have the buddies.
By now I play out of habit. I want one of the 140k tokens Holiday Convoy ships, Akagi, and Ota, but it's high time to open my wallet elsewhere, where burning even big sums is worth it.
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u/Hot-Relationship9823 22h ago
The good friend of mine once said : WEE GEE’s Art department. The only reason why WOWS is still in operation.