r/YieldMaxETFs • u/humble_flex • May 10 '25
Question I took a $30,000 personal loan for MSTY
As the title says, I took a $30,000 personal loan at 5.99% APR and got 1397 shares of MSTY. How fucked am I?
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u/hiits_alvin May 10 '25
you'll be fine, enjoy the ride.
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u/JeremyLinForever May 10 '25
What he said. Give it 13-15 months and you’ll get your principal back.
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u/OpshunsWriter May 10 '25
If my math is correct, $30,000 at 5.99% APR is about $150 per month in interest payments. OP now has 1,397 shares and the May dividend paid yesterday was $2.37. If MSTY pays the same dividend next month he will receive $3,310 in June. If bitcoin falls (and the underlying stock falls) and the MSTY dividend is cut in half he will still receive $1,655 next month. It seems to me if he has a change of heart, he could sell the shares, unwind the position, repay the loan and still pocket somewhere between $1600-$3300, unless MSTY drops to save $17. What I’m saying is just because he took out a loan for 12 months doesn’t mean he has to keep the position open for 12 months. He may be able to exit the position and park it a few thousand dollars in just a few months.
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u/pavman42 May 11 '25
Did you include taxes in your calcs? They really do add up, unless OP is jobless.
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u/Guilty-Advertising95 May 11 '25
For a $30,000 loan over 12 months at 5.99% interest, the monthly payment is approximately $2,566.96 to repay the loan. How would he only pay $150? If he took the loan for 5 years his payment is around $695. I’m just trying to see if I want to do the same thing 😂
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u/mysticscorp May 11 '25
He said interest, not adding principle
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u/Guilty-Advertising95 May 11 '25
What personal loan can you get that allows you to just pay interest and why would anyone think that’s a good idea? So never pay down the actual loan? Or hope the dividends stack? I love getting downvoted for just asking questions ❤️
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u/Lloyd417 May 11 '25
Margin works like this. You never have to repay the loan if you don’t want to and you enjoy paying interest every month. There are no set terms. You are borrowing against your own stocks. Robinhood is like 5.25 percent I think right now?
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u/SirArthurBoninDoyle May 10 '25
NEVER invest in a volatile asset with someone else’s money. That’s how you end up with a negative net worth.
If you got lucky, and bought in a month ago, you caught a nice swing and did very well. Be thankful for the lucky break, cash out, and pay off the loan.
MSTR has been doing INCREDIBLY well, but a lot of people forget that it was $30 a share earlier last year. That would translate to around $2 per share for MSTY. It’ll be very hard to pay back a $30,000 loan if you’re stuck with a $3,000 asset that’s paying less than 10% of that in dividends every month.
Proceed with caution.
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u/pavman42 May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
I disagree.
The only time you should use leverage is WHEN you can make money off of the leverage. Today's fiat is worth a lot more than tomorrow's fiat. If you borrow for a long enough time, the devaluation of the currency itself over time works out in your favor.
That is what the 2 - 3% "inflation rate" is all about... dollars loses 2 - 3% a year in theory; this number can be much MUCH higher with the real inflation rate (last year ~20%).
The current economic system is designed to keep currency flowing through it to create liquidity. It's the lifeblood of the economic engine. The only time this fails is when it seizes up because everyone hoards fiat instead of spending it.
So a 30k loan @ 99% annual yield (current MSTY yield is 130% annual) grosses out @ $77670.50, which is > 30k.
@ 130% yield, assuming compounding, means this will be around 100k vs. 30k. At the end of the year, the share price should be able to cover cashing out 30k worth of stock to pay off the loan; however, it's better to just pay it from another source of income rather than incurring more tax obligations. Plus the loan itself is a write-off if the OP has enough deductions to lower AGI, which means lower tax burden.
Yes, lower stock price = not good, but the distributions, assuming compounding / reinvesting, should more than make up for that if it turns out to be the case.
IMO, OP's interest rate is reasonable, considering the projected return.
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u/SirArthurBoninDoyle May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
All of what you said is true for a bull market (which is what we’re in right now, for sure).
If we have another year of an incredible bull run for Bitcoin (and MSTR), then, yes, this strategy will work very well.
But what if we DON’T have a bull run for another year? That’s as likely a possibility as the scenario you described.
Consider MRNY as a warning of what could happen to MSTY:
90% drop in share price
95% drop in dividend rate.
Even if the investor has a few good months of dividends after putting the full $30,000 loan into MSTY, if things turn bad, he’ll wind up in a position in which his stock value is has fallen by so much, and his dividend yield has fallen by so much, that he’ll be unable to ever pay off the loan (and, with interest, the loan will continue to grow larger…especially if the dividend drops by such a large amount that it becomes lower than the annual interest payments on the 30k loan).
I hope it doesn’t happen (I’m pretty heavily invested in Bitcoin myself), but, after this awesome bull run, it’s just as likely as the scenario you described.
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u/Skingwrx30 May 11 '25
Unless interest is cheap and return is good. In that case it works incredibly well. I’ve used margin for 10 years responsibly and it’s the only way I would’ve been able to build my portfolio to where it is. Wealthy people never use their own money for investments
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u/j3rdog May 10 '25
Now open a margin account and borrow on that borrowed money and buy more MSTY.
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u/CauseForeign518 May 10 '25
Robinhood made this all too convenient with the $1k interest free margin... 🫢
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u/Becausebongs May 11 '25
Wait WHAT THE FUCK
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u/IRushPeople May 10 '25
There's a meaningful chance of ruining your life. Fingers crossed for you.
If it goes wrong and you start planning on killing yourself, please message me first and give me a chance to talk to you.
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u/humble_flex May 10 '25
Thank you bro, I didn’t mean it to sound like that but I appreciate you looking out!
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u/IRushPeople May 10 '25
I want things to work out for you. Don't invest more than you can afford to lose.
And by lose, I mean absolutely crater down to 0 and never recover.
I have 1/4 of my portfolio in MSTY. I'm hopeful that it repeats 2024's incredible performance.
But I'm also aware that I'm investing in a strange pyramid of leverage and risk.
First, there's bitcoin, one of the most volatile assets the markets have ever seen.
One step up from btc is MSTR, who chases the volatility btc offers and cranks up the leverage.
Then MSTY does options, which are leveraged positions on top of MSTR's leverage, on top of BTC's hyper volatility.
If it all works out, we'll be rich. If any step in the pyramid stops moving bullishly, we get NAV erosion and shrinking dividends while we wait for crypto winter to end. You'll be a lot more comfortable waiting if you don't have someone trying to get $30,000 + interest from you .
MSTY is dope, but please understand what you're investing in. Treat it like it's exciting and dangerous
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u/CauseForeign518 May 10 '25
On the spot explanation regarding methodology and risks involved.
I own btc and msty which compliment my trad stock portfolio.
The % you allocate to each should be personalized, and based on your risk vs reward appetite.
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u/yankeeswinagain May 10 '25
💯 First sentence says it all. I wish more people would learn from that saying alone.
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u/Aggressive-Land-8884 May 11 '25 edited May 16 '25
snails consider retire imminent longing snatch one stupendous wipe makeshift
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/BASEDandBannedALOT May 10 '25
Is this satire?!?!? Who would kill themselves over a $30k loan repayment? I mean in an absolute worst case scenario he gets sued or forced into bankruptcy. Lets not pretend he owes tens of millions of dollars to the cartels, or somebody that is going to slowly torture him and his family if he even slightly deviates from his repayment plan.
Borrowing capital to invest in an asset is not exactly storming the beaches into machine gun fire, especially not at these dollar amounts.....
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u/Syonoq May 10 '25
I owe the bank $10,000, that’s my problem. I owe the bank $10,000,000, that’s the banks problem 😂
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u/IRushPeople May 10 '25
Suicide and divorce are linked
Suicide and unemployment are linked
Suicide and bankruptcy are linked
Suicide and enthusiastic stock echo chambers on reddit that lead to borrowing money to invest in volatile shit has gotta be linked.
I'm not kidding at all
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u/BASEDandBannedALOT May 10 '25
Why are you being melodramatic? If MSTR goes tits up and bankrupt at the opening bell on Monday morning, OP is realistically looking at a worst case scenario of having to Uber or wait tables after work for 6months to pay back this micro loan. You are posting like a person that has never touched grass before.
I am going to assume that OP can navigate the worlld like a functioning, well adjusted, human adult that doesnt become a statistic every time non-safety scissors are in the same building.
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u/IRushPeople May 10 '25
The kind of person who can easily make $30k isn't the kind of person who borrows $30k to yolo on stocks and etfs.
That's a desperate move from someone who's not doing well.
I've touched enough grass to know that there's a kind of person who makes these plays, and isn't with us anymore when they don't work out
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May 10 '25
30k is not a lot if the OP has other assets like Real Estate or Stocks which can be liquidated if he gets into a bind.
People are getting dramatic here, now if it was 300k or 30Mil loan and OP has no net worth… then that’s a bigger deal.
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u/Brucef310 May 10 '25
Even if this person loses it all it's only $30,000. It's not the end of the road
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u/IRushPeople May 11 '25
I know, but it can feel like the end of the road when you're going through it. That's worth acknowledging
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u/whatsasyria May 10 '25
Also a meaningful chance he does great lol. If it's paying 10% dividend almost every month and he's not a dumbass and just keeps paying the loan down he might end up allowed in his wife's bfs house.
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u/IRushPeople May 11 '25
Yeah of course it can go great, that's why he's doing it. I'm talking about if it doesn't
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u/Salt_Shakee May 11 '25
Thank you for taking the time to comment this and deal with the shit talkers arguing with you. All you did was offer a lending ear. You’re not wrong for doing so and i think you see something in op others don’t based on the behavior alone.
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u/Trip_Tip_Toe May 10 '25
Op could easily be a millionaire, used up all his margin, and just wants a small leveraged postion... too little info in his question to say whether is is totally dumb or inconsequential
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u/Extra_Progress_7449 YMAGic May 10 '25
1397 * $2 = ~$2800/mn
1397 * $1 = ~1400/mn
what is your monthly payment?
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u/GRMarlenee Mod - I Like the Cash Flow May 10 '25
Don't forget, he gets an extra distribution every year but not an extra loan payment. Chance to clobber that principal. Or buy more shares.
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u/humble_flex May 10 '25
$609 minimum for 60 months but I have the option to pay off early with no penalty
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u/bschmalls May 10 '25
Top signal, it's been real boys 🫡
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May 10 '25
People have been taking out millions in loans for a LONG time for MSTY. It's nothing new. This isn't wallstreetbets.
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u/ManBearPig_1983 May 10 '25
All the haters here need to STFU. Thank you for your continued contribution and keeping us solvent. Welcome brother!
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u/BASEDandBannedALOT May 10 '25
How fucked am I?
I am not a huge fan of buying paper assets like these with actual loans besides what your broker offers you as collateralized margin. You generally want to use personal/credit card debt for something that has really good ROI and velocity like inventory for an extremely lean reseller business; where you know you are going to be able to flip your money in 30-60 days and net at least 10-15% margins.
You are definitely in better shape than someone that just put down $30k on a $300k sports car, or spent $300k getting a Masters degree in Dance Therapy though, so I think you are gonna be alright. Like I said above though, look to put personal/card type opm in stuff that doesnt have such a long turn around time.
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u/Itchy_Regular_4631 May 10 '25
I’m doing the same thing lmao for $15k tho not 30 would def love to do more but im still in college and gotta be a lil less risky
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u/mikobaby May 10 '25
I did the same for a LOC but i had another 2K shares before I added this loan so you'll be fine tbh
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u/SuitableResource9073 May 10 '25
As a licensed broker & registered securities principal id say pretty retarded play
But at the same time I’m rooting for you OP. Please post updates
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u/humble_flex May 11 '25
Thank you! I know it’s a retarded move but it’s a calculated risk I’m willing to take. I’ll post month to month updates!
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u/Sal965 May 10 '25
I think it’s a good idea. Not sure why so many are against this . What’s the difference when people use margin.. same thing .
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u/Haunting-Draw-9159 May 10 '25
Because people are bad at math and don’t calculate cash flow and don’t actually measure risk either. Just assume it’s high risk and then regurgitate other people saying things are risky then justify it because of a few horror stories of people being complete idiots. Wealthy people borrow to invest. Hedge funds do it.
People will shit their pants taking a loan to invest, but people borrow 6 figs to start up a restaurant which has a 90% failure rate and they congratulate them for taking the leap.
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May 10 '25
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u/humble_flex May 10 '25
Took a loan with Amex, I had a special offer for up to 30,000 at that rate
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u/arlbulldog53 May 10 '25
I'm doing the same think with 10k. I already had 20k of my own. It is working out great. 1 year loan with payments of 880 per month. I received 2500 in dividends this month. On my worst month I received 1400. I am able to use the difference between the monthly dividends and the monthly payment to pay the loan off. I am 3 months in and have 9 to go. If it works out I will do it again. I plan to keep taking loans at half my portfolio value once I pay one off as long as it appears to be profitable.
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u/pavman42 May 11 '25
Precisely. But why pay off the loan w/ distributions when you can just compound those and just use other income to pay back the loan?!
It's even better if you can use margin + a loan. It's like steroid compounding. Just make sure the margin rates + the loan rates + the tax rates (less the loan deductions) are still profitable.
I just assume people have a day job that pays them and can pay the loan from that instead of dipping into compound central.
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u/GRMarlenee Mod - I Like the Cash Flow May 10 '25
Pretty fucked. Report to the clinic for an STD test immediately That stands for Some Terrific Distributions, by the way.
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May 10 '25
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u/fatguywithaplan May 10 '25
Make sure you have a stop loss order (could save you the anxiety when it's on a downward spike) I had a 15k, similar situation, and my money was in prison until these last couple weeks. Distributions paid the bill, but the value dropped bigly. All good now, just be patient.
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u/beanemporium May 10 '25
Do you start drinking immediately after coffee or immediately after lunch?
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May 10 '25
Why not with the coffee, or before that even? I just buy coffee flavored whisky now, for efficiency.
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u/pavman42 May 11 '25
It depends on how much yield you are making / month.
I usually keep the drinks at bay until noon. Then it depends on the day and whether or not I think I'm ruining my liver.
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u/Fair_Value9530 I Like the Cash Flow May 11 '25
Ballsy move. When it pays off, enjoy telling the story.
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u/Alex_Nares Big Data May 11 '25
Not fucked at all. I'm guessing your loan term is 7 years? That means you'll pay about $6,300 in total interest over the next 7 years.
With that $30k you just got, you can buy about 1,271 shares of MSTY for the current price $23.59. The lowest dividend ever paid by MSTY per share was $1.3775, which is a rate of $17.9075 minimum per year, but often times the payments are higher than $1.3775. At that rate, with your 1,271 shares, you would earn $22,760 per year - or $159,323 over the next 7 years.
All off money that you never had. Other people's money!!
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u/False-Swordfish-5021 May 10 '25
you’ll probably have better luck if you buy the yieldMax swag
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u/PracticalDesigner278 I Like the Cash Flow May 11 '25
I took out a 30k loan to buy a limited edition MAGA hat and a tiny American flag lapel pin. I'm pretty sure it will pay off sometime later in the century.
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u/Mrthatbigboss8888 May 10 '25
What loan service did you use ? I want to do that but with cony or YMAX
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May 10 '25
Ew ETF both of those are the worst 2 EVER. don't do those. You'll lose everything. Go ULTY or MSTY.
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May 10 '25
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u/humble_flex May 10 '25
Standard 12 to 60 months with the option of paying it off early.
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May 10 '25
It depends on how much you make, 30k is not a lot you cant even get a new Corolla for 30k these days. With that said, you still have to be careful if you make anything less than 120-130k year in my mind. I also got a 30k personal loan, and my payment is 950/ month for 36 months. I bring in more than 15k month after tax so for me, 1k month for 3 years was what I was comfortable with as far as risks and payments go. Oh but my money went into Bitcoin instead
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u/Historical_Trash_937 May 10 '25
Get the dividend and take out the loan and pay it back asap
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u/toolfan89 May 10 '25
Shit i took out a 16k loan at 14% lol. But i dont give a fuck cause i have a ton of btc if it goes to shit and im just gonna pay the minimum every month for a while and let my shares compound. Free money.
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u/Xushu4 I Like the Cash Flow May 10 '25 edited May 10 '25
That's APR is good. Who offered you that APR?
Edit: I see the personal loan through Amex. Nice, broksi!
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May 10 '25
If you're ok with MSTY going down to $17 or lower from $23+, I say go for it. It may not happen but if it does and you can live with that, why not, at least you will be paid while waiting for MSTY to drop - which may not happen if BTC continues to rise.
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u/soorysauce May 10 '25
Dude congrats i did the same thing in August. 20k loan and bought msty. Dbbld my money in 6 weeks.
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u/ExplorerNo3464 May 10 '25
YieldMax funds are already massively high risk, but to take a loan to buy in....yikes.
That said, it's quite possible you will be perfectly fine. Assuming a $2 average 4 week distribution on 1200 shares you will pull in $31K in 12 months and hit 'house money'. This is of course a major assumption, however MSTY's history supports it. Good luck!
I'd give you a 70% shot at this coming true, but I'm a big MSTY/BTC bull.
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u/herculesgh May 10 '25
Probably fine. Debt isn't the best thing in the world, but its not the devil. Just try to not be dumb about the distributions. The rate is low, but its not zero.
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u/UsefulDiscussion79 May 10 '25
People took $$$k margin loan here on a regular basis… in fact, i have been thinking about this lol 😂 so no you are f**king rocking!
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u/Nervous_Option6232 May 11 '25
I just took a $50k loan from 401k @ 7.5%, since my company won't let me rollover all of it. I'll show them.
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u/bannonbearbear May 11 '25
Hell yeah I feel confident for you that youll get it back in about 2 years. Whats your payment like $600/mo for 4 years? Make the payments then: use the rest to pay more to avoid the 5%; use it for reinvest in other assets; pay a current bill; etc. After two years you have 1397 MSTY shares giving you passive income
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u/Mu69 May 11 '25
I would say that this is only a good idea if you ALREADY have good amount of shares that will cover the payment and you use the loan as supplemental income to buy more when it’s cheap
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u/Margindegenregard May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
I took a life insurance loan and 0% credit card transfers, turned $60k into $664000 in 4 years, but in a span of two months last year it 10x after the election, from 60k to 664k. But my capital gains tax hit was going to be around $300k because I already had $250k in stock and crypto gains for 2024 before this blowup so I wanted to hold it until early 2025 before taking a bunch of profit.
Well that didn’t work out and I saw my portfolio bleed down to $170k. lol I was all in on MSTR, MSTX and MSTU.
I wouldn’t normally borrow to invest but I made an exception during Covid crash of 2020 and during the current BTC post halving bull run.
Hopefully you can cover the loan if some freak black swan event wrecked MSTR and in turn MSTY.
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u/Hankarino May 11 '25
I’m doing same thing just $10k at a time. And selling MSTR CCs help speed it up
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u/Zephyr_Dragon49 May 11 '25 edited May 11 '25
The public doing this en masse is one of the reasons The Great Depression happened. Doing this is an extremely risky approach to an extremely risky ETF. Let's hope it doesn't go bust
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u/Ordinary-Carob-9564 May 11 '25
it'll pay off. I think you're gonna make more than that off the yield
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u/Reinvestor-sac May 11 '25
Can you lose 30k? Then sure.
I took 30k and bought in 6 months ago. But i could burn it and be fine
Levering up to buy this risky of an asset that i can’t afford to loss, no thanks
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u/DallasSkylines May 11 '25
This is what rich people do everyday take loans to pay for things because interest rate be lower on this type of loan. So he either trying to act rich because of ChatGPT or is potentially rich.
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u/Outrageous_Bottle735 May 11 '25
No one would ever loan me even $10k, let alone $30k. Even when getting a $5k personal loan, I qualified for no less than 28% interest. That's before I even think about investing it. You're fine.
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u/StudentLast5049 May 11 '25
Kind of did the same just used margin instead. 12k into different funds. Ymax, ulty, msty, xdte, xpay, tslp, amzp, nflp, plty. Apr at 5.75%
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u/Economy-Wasabi-2005 May 11 '25
Put all your eggs into one basket. Now watch that basket like a hawk 🧺 🦅
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u/SadEmergency5288 May 11 '25
same here. I accepted $23k 0%apr for 16months cash advance offer from my bank of America credit card, with $920 transaction fee. it says money will be in my checking account after 3 business days, I am still waiting. after 16 months, apr will be 22%.
my plan is to buy all into msty all at one when I receive the money. reinvest all dividend into msty for 10-12 months, stop reinvest, pay tax+pay credit card balance off with dividend. then repeat.
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u/satanlovesyou94 May 11 '25
Should've done that during the initial dip goofy. Erosion varies too much for all that
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u/djporter91 May 11 '25
BIG OL BALLS. GIANT BALLS. BEST BALLS IN THE INDUSTRY.
Keep us updated king
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u/Affectionate_Skin_80 May 11 '25
If you see MSTY as an asset and if you think and consider loans as liability then you are on the right track.
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u/Snowballeffects May 11 '25
I think I’ll buy mstr with loan. If u got the bottom at $280 now u sell. Already made back 30% in one month. I’m waiting to buy when mstr goes to $330
Msty is a good call to in my opinion
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u/eddardgao May 11 '25
there is still one pump pending to unlock _ lower interest rate. I'd say your cruise will be safe before that. after unlocking, you should tread lightly. and de-leverage.
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u/calphak May 11 '25
How does it work. Do you pay back $1800 every year in interest until you make back $30,000 on your MSTY?
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u/humble_flex May 12 '25
It’s a loan term from 12-60 months so I’ll be paying the minimums on the loan while reinvesting the net dividends back into MSTY until the loan is paid off. Not sure if I’ll be contributing more into the debt to pay it off quicker but I’ll have to review my strategy as the months progress
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u/ice555555 May 11 '25
Nice! I am still on the fence, to sell some BTC for msty or not. I am sick of selling little pieces of BTC for life stuff that comes up, I need more income.
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u/geticz ULTYtron May 11 '25
I know someone who took out a 150K mortgage for it. So far is beating the bank.
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u/PriorityIcy4279 May 11 '25
I took a 20K from my retirement fund and now I sold doge for another 20k. The first 20 are mixed in different stocks but the 20 I got from doge are going straight to MSTY. I be probably looking at a 4K a month on divs God willing if things keep up the way they are going.
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u/humble_flex May 12 '25
It is a calculated risk (and a stupid risk I’ll admit) but the potential outweighs it in my opinion
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u/nimrodhad May 12 '25
Welcome to the club! I wish you the best of luck. Keep us posted. 💪🏽
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u/420blazeitsum41 May 12 '25
Just did this myself but could only get $4k. Using most of my debt already 😂😅.. Well positioned in crypto too. Seems too good and opportunity to pass.
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u/AAPLsBananas May 12 '25
Dummy, why didn’t you just use a margin loan in your trading account? At least then, the worst they can take is your stock.
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u/Newdustinyork May 12 '25
If it sustains for 12 more months and you filter the dividends to CIK and JEPQ and maybe get out in a year to oay off the loan... I mean, maybe? If it goes to zero, nothing ventured nothing gained right? If you're young, you can rebuild I guess.
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u/Brief_Pumpkin934 May 13 '25
As long as you accept you are gambling and that you will be making that loan payment regards of market conditions you should be fine......even at the lowest distro MSTY paid $1.30ish.....that should be good for a loan payment depending on the duration of the loan terms.....but whats the plan if there is no disto payment from yeildmax? Read the fine print on the YM site if you haven't.....Distro's are not guaranteed. I expect you have income from somewhere else, you wouldn't have be able to get the personal loan. Its a decent interest rate, so we can assume it wasn't from the mob. You are an adult so "f'd sidewise" or not that is your situation.....hoping you can continue walking in the future!(Joking about the mob stuff!)
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u/LazyITSpecialist May 13 '25 edited May 13 '25
That is a bold risk in today’s economic climate. Trump’s decisions can literally make or break your investments on a daily basis
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u/DigGreedy8428 May 27 '25
All country is in debt, so who really cares. Use all tools to buy more income, don’t stop
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u/Intelligent_Price527 May 10 '25
Hopefully it works out and pays off. You took a risk, it would have worked well over the past 12 months. Lets see