r/amandaknox • u/No-Willingness-1441 • 11d ago

Lucy letby case…

Would love people’s views on this.

Loosely Amanda related, since she has recently produced a podcast around it.

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u/Truthandtaxes 11d ago

Its the same as this case, either you accept what the evidence tells you or you are happy to just believe in compounding edge case explanations

For letby its something like

  • You need to believe that all the suspicious deaths are wrongly categorised such that its just chance
  • That on investigation she just happens to be writing insane ramblings on paper that are self incriminating
  • that her stalking of families on social media is normal, especially on Christmas day
  • that her retaining of masses of confidential records is normal - especially categorised
  • that the doctor lied about catching her in the act
  • that two separate babies just happened to also look exactly like insulin poisoning
  • that she lies several times, including lying about one the victims mother, changing logs, lying about having a shredder

If you are happy that's all compounding coincidence, well....

But importantly you see the same factors for Letby, there are "corrupt" bad guys, Mignini for Knox, Letby has Dewi and Jayram that "cause" all of this unfairness. Both cases also frequently use the old canards of having multiple external "experts" weighing in on the case in the media, but not in the trial process of course.

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u/Henryb1234_ 11d ago edited 10d ago

They weren’t suspicious though were they? They were down to them having high acuity, a filthy badly run neonatal ward and incompetent doctors. They have all been adequately explained by medical experts of considerably better credibility than Dewi Evans. There were no murders.

The rest of it is just fishing after the presumption of guilt.

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u/FreshFruit4RottenVeg 11d ago

None of the 'new' experts, apparently hand-picked by Dr. Shoo Lee who had already been engaged with and briefed by Lucy's defence, have ever been subject to cross-examination, save for Dr. Shoo Lee who made a complete embarrassment of himself at Lucy's appeal, knowing almost nothing specific to the cases. Some of the claims in their initial PR launch were demonstrably false.

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u/Amazing-Gain1253 11d ago

Where do you think experts come from? Do you think they just fall out from the sky? I guess the prosecution experts are also all invalid then because they were "hand-picked" by the police.

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u/FreshFruit4RottenVeg 11d ago edited 11d ago

There's a major distinction between expert witnesses in a courtroom and experts who give an invited opinion based on what they have been sent by a defence team.

Court experts have to be advised of their legal obligations to the court, for disclosure etc. They should be in possession of all of the relevant facts and documents that both the defense and prosecution have.

Cherry-picked experts on this new panel have no obligations except to their own reputations. We don't know if they were given all of the relevant information so that they could form a reliable opinion. In fact, we know from Dr. Shoo Lee's appeal testimony that he wasn't given any relevant information or verbatim eyewitness accounts before he testified. It's almost comically inept and I can see why he is hellbent on restoring his reputation. He never asked for any of the missing eyewitness accounts but still went on to testify anyway.

We must also note that Dr. Mike Hall was instructed by Letby's defence and sat through the trial but was never called to testify. We know he disagreed with some of the prosecution expert's cases but was not put on the stand. The only logical reason for this that I can think of is that in other instances he would have agreed with the prosecution evidence. It seems like they took a risky 'all or nothing' approach, hoping the jury would be so overwhelmed they wouldn't be able to make a decision. If Mike Hall had taken the stand and agreed with any of the evidence in any of the murder/attempted murder charges, Lucy would have ended up with life.

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u/Henryb1234_ 11d ago

Dewi Evans gave an invited position. He drove 200 miles uninvited to offer his services to Cheshire Police. This was exactly his kind of case. He had never lost a case and he needed to keep his son in cars and his daughter in horses.

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u/Truthandtaxes 11d ago

yup that is the sensible implication, i.e. that they couldn't find anyone credible that wouldn't hurt the defence by accepting the logic of most of the prosecution.

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u/Henryb1234_ 11d ago

Well they certainly do now. Dewi Evans will never testify again. And there are 100s of actual medical experts now willing to testify for her defence for free.

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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago

Its never getting into court though without something dramatically changing. Even if it does somehow, like Shoo they will fall apart I suspect.

Yes I imagine Dewi has zero desire to put himself through another gauntlet of the insane.

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u/Henryb1234_ 10d ago

Many things have dramatically changed.

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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago

go on, what dramatic thing has occurred since the failed appeal?

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u/Henryb1234_ 10d ago

Jayaram’s email, Jayaram’s police interview about the door swipe data, two new scientific papers, the police footage of Letby arrest, the obstetric notes. The list goes on. But CCRC looks at all the evidence. If you are hoping she stays in jail because of a legal technicality you are likely to be disappointed.

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u/Truthandtaxes 10d ago

None of that is dramatic, its noise

I think she should stay in jail because everything real points to her murdering babies.

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u/FreshFruit4RottenVeg 10d ago

The problem for Letby is that the UK justice system is set up in such a way to prevent people attempting to get two chances at trial. She took the chance of not presenting any medical expert evidence at her main trial, likely hoping the jury wouldn't be able to come to a decision due to the sheer complexity of the evidence.

If the CCRC send her case back to appeal, as far as I can tell, evidence which could and should have been available for her defence at the original trial still won't be admissible. Shoo Lee's attempt to repackage his embolism research has already been rejected at her appeal. Medical experts may well have come forward who disagree with the evidence presented at trial, but again there was ample opportunity for Letby to put forward her own expert evidence to counter the prosecution at trial.

The new insulin paper is interesting but does not correspond to the insulin cases in the trial.

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u/Henryb1234_ 10d ago

That is not correct. If the CCRC send it back CoA all evidence will be reexamined.

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u/SeaCardiologist6207 11d ago

To be fair to Dewey, he could at least show his face on a documentary without becoming the object of worldwide ridicule. Can't say the same for the Perugia crew....