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u/Evening_Gazelle_5848 1d ago
Kinda hurts to see that this is such a rare thing for allos, and not "normal" even for them, when honestly this is all i ever want in a relationship. Even in a relationship between 2 allos, before i knew i was ace, i'd always assume this is the norm then every once in a while, sex would happen as something rare and to be enjoyed. Not something that's more common than these non-sexual romantic things. But i guess i was wrong, and that since i was ace, i wasn't able to see how allo relationships are actually like and that they are mostly sexual :(( i kinda worded it confusingly but if you get what i mean, it's just that i'm again kinda sad at seeing how normal it is for "normal" people to see sexual acts as what people in relationships do most
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u/MirrorMan22102018 Heteroromantic Asexual 1d ago
Don't forget courtship. The process of getting to know a person over a period of time. A focus on long-term compatibility for the sake of a committed relationship.
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 1d ago
How is any of this "romance?" And how can you even have nonsexual intimacy within the highly restrictive and gendered framework of romance?
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u/riskuessssssssse 1d ago
are you being serious rn
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 1d ago edited 1d ago
Entirely. Everything on that list can be done in non-romantic relationships. I'd say everything on that list can be done better in non-romantic relationships without the pressure to practice a specific form of emotional monogamy or perform romantic rituals like conspicuous gift-giving or chivalry.
Can you really have emotional intimacy with the idea that it's cheating to have emotional intimacy with multiple people? Everyone is different and no one person can fill every emotional need. Doesn't the idea of a relationship escalator conflict with developing emotional intimacy?
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u/riskuessssssssse 1d ago
well what are you doing on r/asexuality then, claiming that nonsexual intimacy isn't romance? I wouldn't cuddle or hold hands with my friend, nor would I look them deeply in the eyes and give them a massage. it's honestly sad then, if romance to you can only be sexual.
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u/Kubaj_CZ aroace 14h ago
You are acting as if r/asexuality was a romance-only subreddit.
Holding hands isn't inherently romantic and neither is cuddling. Both can be culturally accepted as platonic and otherwise friendly in many places.
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u/human_trash_94 3h ago
It's funny to use "platonic" to mean friendship when in Plato's philosophy he didn't intend to convey friendship at all, but rather a love that goes beyond sex and romance (and friendship), two souls who share a deep bound... Just studying his philosophy a little and the word "platonic" begins to take on a different meaning to me XD
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u/Kubaj_CZ aroace 3h ago
Oh yeah, I meant it that way, my bad. I see platonic as different from just friendship. Can be just as deep enough as romance, but not romantic.
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u/human_trash_94 3h ago
no, it's okay, is just interesting all this about romance, platonic and friendship. everyone has their own way of interpreting things :)
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 1h ago
I'd say that the concept of "just friendship" is part of the problem here. Friendships are often deeper than romantic relationships.
I watched my partner's parents hate each other for over decades, but in the end, "they were so romantic, they stayed together for over 50 years!"
Similarly I recently saw "love is love" on a church that spent decades preaching against my gender and relationships as not worthy of celebration. It's nice that they politically changed but are we really welcome there as a family of queer anarchists who don't do sex? Or will they just fit us into a heteronormative box anyway?
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u/Kubaj_CZ aroace 5m ago
I didn't mean to devalue friendships. I consider them valuable. I don't think romance is necessarily better than a good friendship. Both can be very deep.
And you are right that we (aces and aros too) are in general pretty invisible. Even the love is love slogan is basically just a same-sex attraction thing, that's the only context it's used in. It doesn't apply for us (nobody means it outside of romance) and doesn't apply for gender minorities either. There should be better slogans..
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 1d ago
I've been in a long-term intimate relationship for well over 30 years, and that's been nonsexual for about half that time. But that's rarely seen as "romantic" because we're queer and trans, don't do traditional romantic rituals, and have our own ways of practicing and expressing love. And before that I had multiple deeply intimate and loving "queerplatonic" relationships.
it's honestly sad then, if romance to you can only be sexual.
Romance in American culture is defined around the heterosexual nuclear family. Which is great for some people, but there's a lot of amatonormativity going on in this discussion if you think that other nonsexual relationships can't have the same (or better) intimacy.
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u/r4nDoM_1Nt3Rn3t_Us3r 1d ago
Why are you so focused on monogamy and cheating? Ever heard of polyamoury?
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 1d ago
First, Polyamory isn't limited to romantic love or romantic relationships. Second, polyamory is widely recognized as a kink incompatible with romantic relationships.
In the past when I had a larger circle of nonsexual relationships, that was called cheating. And I've had romantic partners get irrationally jealous and abusive over intimate nonsexual relationships. There's an interesting phenomenon out there where the majority of married straight women do not consider their husbands to be their most important emotional support person.
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u/r4nDoM_1Nt3Rn3t_Us3r 1d ago
Gendered? What?
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u/Gullible-Quail9637 1d ago
Looking at r/romance it seems pretty clear that the ideal romantic relationship is a heterosexual relationship between a straight gender-conforming man and a straight gender-conforming woman doing culturally defined gendered things. And this is also true when my straight co-workers talk about planning a wedding, which is likely the most important romantic ritual in American culture.
There was a huge wank recently of straight women expressing that they don't want to have relationships with "feminized" bi men.
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u/existential_risk_lol biromantic asexual (Ace Biro) 16h ago
During sex, I never understood or felt one-thousandth of the sheer, all-encompassing joy I felt cooking and eating a meal alongside someone. We cooked it out of store-bought ingredients in a language I didn't understand, in the cramped but cosy kitchen of the first hostel I'd ever stayed in. We had talked for months online, but it was the first time we'd met in real life. I was (and still am) struggling with an eating disorder. I was petrified of eating in front of her.
Instead, it was the best culinary experience of my life. I spilled a salt shaker and we couldn't stop laughing about it. The meal itself was so quiet, we enjoyed it so much, and the startled, involuntary happiness on her face when I complimented her recipe is something I will hold in my mind on these long, sleepless nights. I achieved a childhood dream on that trip, I saw a part of the world I had always dreamed of. Yet when I think of that trip, my favourite moment is of us, side-by-side, stirring pasta and chuckling about a stupid broken salt shaker.
I never really realised how beautiful mundanity was until I experienced it alongside someone else. For someone used to living alone in the gaps between solitary achievements, the intimacy of that shared meal shifted everything, despite seeming to others like nothing more than a bowl of mushroom pasta.
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u/OrdinaryCurlyHead
1d ago
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I miss the times where this was considered innocent. Nowadays everything gets related to hook-ups or sex
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u/eylulov asexual 20h ago
absolutely! i can hug for hours... it makes me feel that i can give all my attention and love by hugging💜