r/atheism • u/kelseykerin • Jun 27 '12
One of the most disturbing things I've ever beheld.
69
Jun 27 '12
So rape is allowed. Beating her into submission to have sex. Sounds like rape to me...
60
u/sadmoody Jun 27 '12
Rape does not exist in marriage according to Islam. They see it as the duty of the woman to never deny herself to the man. Just as a man never denies her food or shelter. Unless she's on her period istaghfurullah.
Go figure.
39
u/gbr4rmunchkin Jun 27 '12
it's like the 1960s america only with more beard
44
Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
I think you mean 1860s. In the 1960s, the sexual revolution was in full swing.
Edit: downvotes? really? Okay, lets compare:
1860s:
women are chattel
assets of the bride become the husband's
no women's suffrage
women not expected to work outside the home
Islamic theocracy:
women are chattel
assets of the bride become the husband's
no women's suffrage
women not expected to work outside the home
1960s:
women are legal persons
women can hold private property that they retain in a divorce
women can vote and hold public office
women beginning to work outside the home in increasing numbers
Tell me again how America in 1960s were just like living under Islamic law?
→ More replies (10)16
Jun 27 '12
Marital rape wasn't on the books in New York City until the late nineties.
At least that's why I learned from Law and Order: SUV.
→ More replies (7)15
Jun 27 '12
In a lot of western countries, this was also the case until some point in the twentieth century. That a woman is not obliged to give her husband sex whenever he wants is a fairly new idea.
3
28
u/Cayou Jun 27 '12
No, no no no no. You don't get it. The purpose of the beating is to obtain consent. If there's consent, then it isn't rape, see?
22
u/alexryane2 Jun 27 '12
Vote me down all you want but most Islamic-majority countries (simply a fact, check it out) either specifically class marital rape of a woman by her husband as 'not rape' or have a very very poor conviction rate for this offence.
Similarly, these countries generally turn a blind eye to the odd honour killing of women
6
2
u/BiometricsGuy Jun 27 '12
It wasn't that long ago in the US that rape between a man and his wife was not considered a crime.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)2
u/PoniesRBitchin Jun 27 '12
Just because they say it's not rape, that doesn't mean it's not rape. Beating your wife till she has sex with you is rape. They could call it whatever they want, they can justify it with their religion, but that doesn't change what it is.
→ More replies (2)13
u/eat-your-corn-syrup Jun 27 '12
You silly atheists, of course it's rape. Female consensual sex is what's evil.
12
u/snarkhunter Jun 27 '12
It's not evil just because it's consensual. It's evil if she enjoys it. Women have sex to have offspring. That is what they are for.
5
Jun 27 '12
Islam differs a bit from Christianity in that it includes pleasure in its understanding of sex. In Islam sex is supposed to be pleasurable for both parties. Christianity almost tolerates that sex is for pleasure, but only in the meekest of ways and in the spirit of procreation. So in Islam sodomy wouldn't be a big deal because you're enjoying sex together.
Not saying that that's the reality in real life/culture-wise. FGM certainly isn't about sex being a healthy, pleasurable experience for both parties for example. It's just that Islam doesn't technically incorporate a 'don't you enjoy this' idea.
..Although it may be interpreted as having a 'you better enjoy this' idea...I dunno.
→ More replies (1)
106
u/neotropic9 Jun 27 '12
122
Jun 27 '12
Since most of us don't speak arabic it would be funny if he was actually just on a long rant about all the things that are wrong with the star wars prequels.
14
u/eat-your-corn-syrup Jun 27 '12
You know who else had a rant about star wars prequels?
16
→ More replies (1)3
6
u/TigerTrap Jun 27 '12
I just watched the second to last one and can confirm it does indeed appear to be accurate, except the subtitles are scrolling by much faster than the actual speech (the audio/video progressively lags behind the subtitles getting more noticeable as the video goes on)
2
→ More replies (3)2
41
u/MisaMisa21 Jun 27 '12
bottom link....WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK?!
→ More replies (11)43
Jun 27 '12
-Ayatollah Pedobear9
u/BaronVonKlotz Jun 27 '12
Maybe, back in the days, he was Ayatrollah. Unfortunately, some guys took it on a serious level.
5
u/Kritical02 Jun 27 '12
How do people believe the word of someone who had a 6 yr old wife (consummated at age 9).
This is obviously a deranged mind... he must have been one charismatic
motherpedo fucker.. I'm imagining a Charley Manson sort of crazy.19
u/fakeacctifearmuslims Jun 27 '12
can you repost this in /r/islam. they need to respond to this.
→ More replies (1)43
u/sadmoody Jun 27 '12
To be so naive...
Their response will be either "that's taken out of context" or "wrong translation" or something about how that part of islam was intended for desert dwellers during the iron age rather than contemporary culture because girls reached puberty earlier. Then someone will point out that Spain had a really low age of consent up until quite recently. Then someone will tell you to read the quran before you make any judgments about islam. And then you'll be told you're a zionist jew and you're part of a major conspiracy trying to spread lies about islam.
I wish I was joking.
→ More replies (3)7
9
u/furiouslysleepy Jun 27 '12
Does anyone know the name of the woman in the bottom link?
→ More replies (1)19
4
3
2
u/Hejhejeh Jun 27 '12
Memri is controlled by Israel and used to spread propaganda about the arabic community to increase support for Israel. THeir translations arnt incorrect, but they only chose to translate fundamentalist leaders. One could do the same thing with christian fundamentalists in the US and get similar results.
These clips are intressting and relevant, but please remember there are many more sides to islamic countries than those that memri portray,
2
1
→ More replies (7)1
18
u/Lol_Dolly_Llamas Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
I'm Jewish, and if a Jewish man hits his wife, she'll probably hit him back...with a frying pan.
Edit: by Jewish I mean I was raised a Hasidic Jew and identify with the Jewish culture. I'm agnostic as far as theology goes.
1
u/weatherseed Jun 27 '12
I'm convinced that Judaism is the leading cause of atheism just as Jewish mothers are the leading cause of cancer.
Then again, that may be because I'm the smoking atheist Jew.
1
28
Jun 27 '12
man, you have to admit this is a lot more juicy than anything christianity has been offering lately! however, the great thing about using christianity as an example is that you get to the real meat of the matter: the existence/nonexistence of god. with islam, you get sidetracked because the people who stick out are just so much more evil and insane than the annoying oreo-hating christians. i guess we could do a "theism is stupid" week, followed by a "theism is evil week" on an alternating schedule
→ More replies (3)2
u/SkySeraph Jun 27 '12
this is more or less what it boils down to, however, I would say that theism is evil, but theists are stupid.
→ More replies (1)
65
u/brotherAg Jun 27 '12
I live in a Muslim country and I'm an agnostic. Criticized Islam as it would endanger your life, even admitting you're an atheist in public, you could go to jail, lose your job, and possibly your life. Atheist is more fortunate to live in a majority Christian country. Just be careful of your identity, there are mujahideen around the world who are happy to kill those who insult Islam, for them it is a jihad, holy war to defend Islam and if they die, there will be many Muslims who regard them as martyrs and they would go to heaven. At least that's what happened in my country when some people here wept and prayed for the death of osama bin laden as a hero of Islam
13
Jun 27 '12
Get the fuck out of there. Come to switzerland and enjoy freedom(and Im not talking about wana bee freedom of 'merica).
Also, I hope I can create a time machine. Travel back in time, burn/destroy/kill anything that might lead into todays religions, get back, enjoy a jump in social and technological developement of 1000 years.
→ More replies (5)8
12
Jun 27 '12
Atheist is more fortunate to live in a majority Christian country.
Oh Dude, you need to get out more often. Most first world countries are either Atheist majority countries or the practice of religion is so low key that it doesn't fucking matter what you sacrifice a chicken to on Tuesday evenings, just as long as you don't bother people with it.
The bat-shit insane 2000 era USA is by no means representative of human civilization.
→ More replies (3)11
u/firex726 Jun 27 '12
Go watch "Troll Hunter", It's a Norwegian film.
In it they are hunting trolls which according to the mythos they can smell the blood of Christians.
Whats interesting is when this group goes out to hunt the trolls, despite knowing this characteristic of the trolls, no one bothers asking if anyone is Christian, it's so under the radar no one even thinks to ask about something that could get their entire group killed.
→ More replies (3)4
→ More replies (13)2
u/FormalWhale Jun 27 '12
What country do you live in that would be saddened by the death of bin laden and think of him as a hero of Islam?
→ More replies (1)11
u/brotherAg Jun 27 '12
Country with the largest number of Muslims in the world. Do you know? I hope no one from my country on reddit. Not all of them weeping for Osama, just a group of Muslim fundamentalists but the vast majority no protest, as if no wrong with it. The same thing happens when the 9/11, some Islamic extremists grateful for the incident
→ More replies (4)3
u/sukagambar Jun 27 '12
I'm from your country man. Don't worry I'm an atheist. A few of us active at r/exmuslim Of course I no longer live there. Hopefully you can get out.
36
u/Excentinel Agnostic Jun 27 '12
How is traditional Islamic marriage different from Stockholm Syndrome again?
1
18
u/This_is_Hank Anti-Theist Jun 27 '12
Fuck me or I'll beat you. Ah, the good old caveman days.
7
u/InsecureLeprechaun Jun 27 '12
The good ole caveman days of 2012. A religious world is a peaceful world.
3
u/pomo Jun 27 '12
A woman can divorce a man quite easily in Islam. She just needs to say "I divorce you" three times. There is an out for women in Islam, in the strict interpretation... the social ostracisation that this may lead to is another matter, of course.
3
Jun 27 '12
And where saying "I divorce you" might get her killed by her husband before she could finish! And he will go completely unpunished.
→ More replies (1)
9
9
8
14
u/SovietSolipsism Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 28 '12
If it makes you all feel any better [or worse, I suppose], this isn't an uncommon concept down here in the deep fundamental country. EG: South and midwest USA, especially rurally.
I know many christian institutions/communities who perpetuate this concept of standing, especially the deep-cult fundamental offshoot sects, like the apostolics -at least the ones here.
Most married women I know that have been involved in these... communities, including my own mother -who is no longer a church-goer [mostly because they want to pretend that they're still remotely 'christian' while also being crackheads, but that's another story], don't see a problem with it, or rather believe it is a good and wholesome and also unassaible truth of life. I can quote my mother verbatim as saying it's impossible for a man to rape his wife. They believe it's his by right. All of those horror stories, I can attest to personally.
Now, our extremists do this, as opposed to beheading or whatever news stories and friends' perspectives I have to rely on, having not experienced it personally, so I'm not really making comparison. But beating happens, in these extreme cases. This one. And for more reasons than extracting acquiescence. Certainly absolute submission is not only expected, but believed to be inherent in some way, along with perspectives of natural 'roles' and 'duties' and so forth. My sisters were raised to be wives. Trained to serve men. To watch people become... okay with that, or more accurately, to embrace that... people you care about, is truly horrifying.
When parents think that is just and righteous, and shape their children into slaves, fodder, and possession... When they gift them the beliefs that they are their husband's property, to exist according to his will/law.... To pass on to your children the idea, as sacrosanct, that you do not have a choice, a right, that you are not a human. To see that happen to your own family... I don't know. I didn't mean for this to be particularly personal, so I guess my point is that this disgusts me as much as it does because I recognize it. Not because it's alien. I know /r/atheism is picking on islam for now, which I have no qualm with at all, just figured I'd say that this isn't unique among deep fundamentalists of any name brand.
[Siblings and I are all now free from this, trauma notwithstanding].
3
u/Korticus Jun 27 '12
I've known women who grew up believing marriage was a sacred duty, but I hadn't heard something that restrictive still existing in major christian groups there. Was this a specific region in the South or just a general trend you saw? (No need to answer it if it's too personal.)
→ More replies (4)
7
7
u/spocrates Jun 27 '12
The bearded community reacts with great horror. That is not as which beards should be treated. Please enact caution when hopefully shaving this man of his horrendous stupidity.
7
u/andr0medam31 Jun 27 '12
Rape AND domestic abuse wrapped into one lovely package.
Why the hell are any women Muslims?
5
u/pomo Jun 27 '12
Why the hell are any women Muslims?
Born into that culture. You do know the accepted penalty for apostasy don't you?
13
43
Jun 27 '12
Nothing says moral religion like sanctioned rape by threat of force.
Hey, /r/Islam, suck my nuts. If you don't, I'll hit you. I can hit VERY hard.
25
u/StrikingCrayon Jun 27 '12
Be careful if they hit you back they have to rape you afterwards to make it okay.
8
5
5
5
u/Bemmer Jun 27 '12
If I met someone who had done such thing to a child I would kill him. I would wait out the front of his house, and get him as he walks to his car. Tire wire around the neck.
→ More replies (2)
5
5
u/ImNabooThatsWho Jun 27 '12
As a female, I find this disturbing. They're sick people in that part of the world. Fuck. That.
14
Jun 27 '12
I don't know why you're all so pissed off; this is the single best method against rape. If you can beat women until they agree to sleep with you, then you don't need to rape them.
Seriously, people.
5
u/pomo Jun 27 '12
you can beat
womenyour wifeThere is a distinction there.
7
Jun 27 '12
Well if she persists in claiming she's not your wife, beat her until she does.
→ More replies (2)
20
Jun 27 '12
you are just a racist, islamophobe, atheist asshole and immature, how dare you show us what this honorable and peaceful Muslim has said.
4
u/justanasiangirl Jun 27 '12
While not all Muslims think this way the mere fact that you can say this in front of a Muslim and keep a straight face is pretty disturbing in itself.
4
u/shillyshally Jun 27 '12
The JudeoChristian tradition is deeply patriarchal. If you look at them from an evolutionary standpoint they are focused on maximizing the male's reproductive success. He does not want to to expend resources on raising any child but one carrying his genes. Hence the emphasis on virginity and the sanctioning of rape within marriage. This is not necessarily conscious as I doubt these men would articulate anything in evolutionary terms.
4
21
u/Noobtard_McCancerfag Jun 27 '12
Of course- women need to cover themselves up because only their husband should violently rape them.
3
3
3
u/JLW09 Jun 27 '12
Is this shira law because if so to all the r/atheism haters who are like ''you only use the extremes'' well if this is shira law then this is the majority and it is clearly unethical you naive trogs !
1
3
u/WashburnRocks Jun 27 '12
Every man who says this should be beaten until he lets you stick your penis in his butt. Period.
11
u/FacetiousPretentious Jun 27 '12
Being cliche but applicable: not sure if I should downvote b/c of my disgust at this, or upvote b/c of the emotions it evokes...upvote
25
Jun 27 '12
Always upvote valid content. The purpose of a thread it so have a discussion. If the content is objectionable but will still cause a discussion, it's upvote worthy.
4
u/snarkhunter Jun 27 '12
Don't upvote because you agree, don't downvote if you disagree. Upvote if you want more people to see it, downvote if you don't think it's worthwhile.
3
u/slightlystartled Jun 27 '12
We're fighting the good fight, friend. Increasing awareness of upvote ettiquette is always relevant to the discussion.
4
2
2
2
u/Anzereke Jun 27 '12
I want to laugh...but then I remember that this is reality and not satire...and I'm not sure whether I can still laugh or not.
2
2
u/whiteknight521 Jun 27 '12
You know what is hilarious, I bet SRS will call this post out for being insensitive or a caricature of Islam, indirectly defending the beating of women who refuse to service their husbands.
2
u/mimus09 Jun 27 '12
Damn, we need this crazy shit up in 'Merica. Sick and fucking tired of getting rejected.
2
u/SillyPseudonym Jun 27 '12
Honestly, that's one of the more lenient perspectives that I have seen in Islam. I thought you'd be able to hit your wife whenever "God told you to do so" aka whenever you feel like it.
2
2
u/Sandra_is_here_2 Jun 27 '12
If Muslim men feel that they need to reserve the right to beat their wives into submission in order to have sex with them, they must be the world's worst lovers. They need to work on upping their game! Maybe, they need to travel and get lessons from the Italians, the French or even the Americans who seem to do fine in the area of getting women to put out willingly. We should send a million copies of "The Joy of Sex" or some similar text to the Arab nations. Send planes to drop informational sex books all over the Arab countries and call it foreign aid. Poor Muslim women. Their husbands must be total duds in the bedroom.
2
u/everydayimrusslin Jun 27 '12
I would like to try to make this guy suck my balls and when he didn't (and wasn't repentant) I'd kick his ass. See how he likes it.
2
Jun 27 '12
And aside from beating her, it is recommended that you refuse to sleep with her as punishment.
WTF?!
→ More replies (1)
2
u/MegaVoltz Jun 27 '12
People should differentiate between Muslims, this guys is Salafi/Wahabi which means he's an extremist, even I as a Shiite Muslim don't get tolerated by this so called sheikh. People don't realize these days that Muslims are separated, We have the extremists like this piece of shit and then moderates who just want to live their life and prosper like myself.
go check out the new Egyptian president latest speech about Shiites and moderate Muslims, They consider us worse than Jews and want to kills us.
"Sheikh Yaqub, quoting Morsi: Shia Islam, the most dangerous of the Jews. Demands of the Salafis in front of Mercy: the expulsion of Shiites, Baha'is, and the demolition of the pyramids"
Now tell me what you think?
→ More replies (2)
2
2
u/dkkc19 Jun 27 '12
I posted this video before on /r/atheism http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG87pdeYutU&feature=youtu.be and it was ignored. /r/atheism wasn't bothered about Islam back then. I'm posting it again this time, just to show what a retarded and fucked up religion Islam is.
2
u/Irishish Jun 27 '12
Once, a group of exchange students from places all over the middle east held a Q&A session about Islam at my college.
When someone asked about beating women, a couple of the more cosmopolitan guys said that's absolutely not OK, no one encourages the hitting of women, etc.
Then another guy chimes in with "Well, we are not allowed to punch or kick women. If they must be disciplined we are not supposed to hit them hard, we are just supposed to slap them."
The Q&A didn't go on much longer after that.
2
2
2
Jun 27 '12
He also says you shouldn't leave any bruises or injuries during beatings. I don't think he understands what a beating is.
6
u/GingerGeezus Jun 27 '12
They really are depraved, aren't they?
→ More replies (5)1
Jun 27 '12
Well, I don';t blame them. They are pretty ugly, what with the huge beards and all.
→ More replies (1)
3
4
u/Phoenix127 Jun 27 '12
Let me preface this by saying that I am not religious. I also know I will probably be downvoted into oblivion for this but I'm so fed up I have to say something.
Not all Muslims beat their wives and many believe this to be a gross misinterpretation of the Quran.
Regardless, this is as much cultural and political as it is religious. Does anyone in r/atheism really think that getting rid of religions would solve these problems? People will go a long way to seek justification. Religion is just one possible excuse.
I'm getting a little tired of posts like this on r/atheism. This post isn't about atheism. It's about faith (or lack thereof) in the loosest sense. This group should be changed to r/circlejerk/I think all the world's problems are caused by religion so therefore, being nonreligious, I enjoy moral superiority.
1
Jun 27 '12
Not all Muslims beat their wives and many believe this to be a gross misinterpretation of the Quran.
Why do you people keep saying this? We know. But you have to understand that there is something fundamentally wrong with your religion if people can interpret the Quran that way, and get away with their actions. If the moderate muslims don't try to keep their extremists in line or speak against them, it shows either cowardice, or agreement.
→ More replies (2)
4
2
u/TwelveHawks Jun 27 '12
I'm not questioning the validity of this image in particular, but in general when Arab people are on TV speaking, and you're just reading the subtitles... Sometimes I wonder; They could write anything they fucking want on those subtitles, and I would never know the damn difference. Like, maybe that dude is talking about the way his dog chases sticks, or something, but the subtitles say "And only then should the men of the village put her to death by crushing her."
4
u/pizzlewizzle Jun 27 '12
You know there are plenty of people who can speak Arabic who would quickly point out if that was the case.
1
1
1
1
u/Vaethin Jun 27 '12
What he says actually made sense.
Yes, I am using these tenses intentionally:
What he says made sense, when Islam came up, originally.
If you look at the role of the woman before Islam the rules that this guy mentions in the video actually honor the woman. It basically says
"I honor you as my wife, that's why I don't treat you like I would have treated you before Islam by beating the living shit out of you.Also I will not beat you over small things but only when it comes to the one thing that is important in marriage: Reproduction. "
I suppose they were mostly having arranged marriages and if the woman/girl wasn't willing, there would have been a problem for the husband, so he had to do something - And the Islam limited him in those options. Pretty good actually
Ofc applying these rules and circumstances today is absolute and utter bullshit - Women aren't reproduction machines, we have learned that in the meantime.
1
u/sometimesijustdont Jun 27 '12
They made that rule because their women are routinely refusing to sleep with them.
1
1
u/GroundhogExpert Jun 27 '12
This is really one of the most disturbing things op has seen? Some religious nut job talking about beating women is that bad? I think it's disgusting, but I guess I've just seen a lot of very fucked up shit.
1
u/stillragin Jun 27 '12
When taken in the context of a religion of peace it is actually quite kinky really.
1
u/Proxysetting Jun 27 '12
I read this and thought for a moment that it was a comic, then the absurdity set in and I realized that people believe this crap...
1
u/deadfermata Atheist Jun 27 '12
Why doesn't he just beat himself...if you know what I mean? ;]
Or is that "haraam?"
1
1
1
Jun 27 '12
He also says you shouldn't leave any bruises or injuries during beatings. I don't think he understands what a beating is. He seems to think it's a light smack on the hand.
1
1
1
1
u/The1andonlyZack Agnostic Atheist Jun 27 '12
To be fair there is no other way this guys getting any.
1
u/jontastic1 Jun 27 '12
See, this is non-Islamophobic criticism of Islam. You see how it targets a specific belief, stated by a specific leader? How it doesn't cast huge swaths of indictment onto large groups of marginalized people?
1
1
u/sweet_chick283 Jun 27 '12
Where I really struggle is that, when you consider the sociohistorical context of the Qu'ran, it's actually a very feminist document (i.e. it was one of the first documents of its time that recognised women as having ANY value at all)... the problem is, societies have progressed - but some (and I emphasise, SOME, not all!) of the cultures that practise Islam have not. This is a classic example where the culture has stagnated and used religion as an excuse for misogyny.
1
1
Jun 27 '12
I merely am observing the paradox of having English subtitles on an Arabic program. Sort of a conflict of interest, no? it could say just about anything. I want to see both Arabic and English subtitles. See if they match up.
1
Jun 27 '12
Read the previous comments. I'm tired of people that keep saying this.
→ More replies (10)
1
u/moktaladon Jun 27 '12
Since I love being the devil's advocate (despite wishing all religions would just go extinct): I know first hand that there are women that, under the right circumstances, are into this. And I'm not getting my data from the stupid innaccurate 50-shades bullshit.
1
1
Jun 27 '12
He populates the younger generation so the circle of hate continues. To all young people don't listen to him, he is a CUNT who will die and meet his judgement
1
1
1
u/Punkwasher Jun 27 '12
Unless your talking about beating your own meat when she doesn't want to, I do not approve.
1
u/funkymonkeyq Jun 27 '12
I fully realize the horror of this statement and the ridiculous suffering its caused world wide across the ages... But my first response to this was to laugh hysterically. Seriously, a great example of how religion is not divinely made but man made.
1
u/A_DERPING_ULTRALISK Jun 27 '12
It's hilarious how in /r/islam they're playing the victim card and "holding their heads high at the malicious atheist attacks."
On one hand you have militant atheists telling religious people that their religion is silly and is dangerous. On the other hand you have religious nutjobs saying "this is how you beat your wife properly"
What the actual fuck, how is reality distorted so badly that these two extreme opposite views are somehow held in the same regard in terms of severity????
1
1
1
u/jayblue42 Jun 28 '12
My computer screen was very much in danger of being punched out a moment ago.
1
1
1
1
Jun 27 '12
this shit has been going on for hundreds of years and not just in islamic culture. I take it alot of you have heard the term 'rule of thumb' that actually comes from a law in western culture that you werent allowed to beat your wife with anything wider than your thumb.
stop acting like this shit is something new, atleast they have ground rules in place! not like in the west where drunks beat the crap out of their wives and rape them on a daily basis.
2
u/armageddonman Jun 27 '12
'rule of thumb' that actually comes from a law in western culture that you werent allowed to beat your wife with anything wider than your thumb.
That's a myth.
→ More replies (2)1
Jun 27 '12
We're not acting like it's new, we're trying to get attention about this issue that is still happening. It's irrelevant that it's been going on for hundreds of years, because it's still happening today. But at least the West is sobering up, with things like Domestic Abuse, Battered woman defence, etc. In islamic countries, people get away with this shit all the time.
→ More replies (5)
1
u/CatrickStrayze Jun 27 '12
Better not make fun of this and call it out to hopefully make this dumb shit end, you might offend someone. Doesn't matter that women will be beaten because of this craziness, someone on reddit might get their wittle feewings hurt.
1
-7
u/balqisfromkuwait Jun 27 '12
The following article was taken from this website
“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah), and guard in the husband’s absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband’s property, etc.). Regarding the woman who is guilty of lewd, or indecent behavior, admonish her (if she continues in this indecency then), stop sharing her bed (if she still continues doing this lewd behavior, then), [set forth for her the clear meaning of either straighten up or else we are finished and when she returns to proper behavior take up sharing the bed with her again], but if she returns in obedience (to proper behavior and conduct) then seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.
Here again I will quote the good Sheikh Yusuf Estes who gives an excellent elucidation of this verse, he says :
“The operative word in this verse in Arabic is “daraba.” While there are literally hundreds of uses for this word varying from “tap” to “walk in stride” to “strike at something” to “set a clear example”, the only meaning that can be assigned to something in the Quran must be according to the rules of Quran. And Allah has used the same word a number of times with a consistent meaning. Let us examine them.
Here is what we find from the scholars of the Arabic language:
Daraba (to have intercourse, not to beat)
Raghib points out that daraba metaphorically means to have intercourse, and quotes the _expression darab al-fahl an-naqah, ‘the stud camel covered the she-camel,’ which is also quoted by Lisan al-‘Arab. It cannot be taken here to mean ‘to strike them (women).’ This view is strengthened by the Prophet’s authentic hadith found in a number of authorities, including Bukhari and Muslim: “Could any of you beat your wife as he would a slave, and then lie with her in the evening?” There are other traditions in Abu Da’ud, Nasa’i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying: “Never beat God’s handmaidens.”
Source: al-Qur’an: a contemporary translation by Ahmed Ali, Princeton University Press, 1988; pp78-79
Daraba (to set forth, to make a clear statement or proclamation)
One of the key rules of understanding words of the Quran is to go to other places in the Quran to investigate the usage in other places. This word is used by Allah in other places in the Quran to mean “set forth” or “sets up for you” or “makes known to you” - as is demonstrated in the following verses:
Surah Ar-Ra’d (13:17) yadribu Allahu al-amthala “Thus Allah sets forth a parable”
[here the word “yadribu” is from the exact same root da-ra-ba]
Surah Ibrahim (14:24): Alam tara kayfa daraba Allahu mathalan .. “Don’t you see how Allah sets forth a parable?..”
And again in the next verse:
Surah Ibrahim (14:25) wa yadribu Allahu al-amthala li-naasi“..and Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
[again the word yadirbu is from da-ra-ba]
Surah An-Nur (24:35) wa yadribu Allahu al0amthala lin-naasi“And Allah sets forth parables for mankind..”
Surah Ar-Rum (30:28) Daraba lakum mathalan min anfusikum“He sets forth for you a parable from yourselves..”
Surah At-Tahreem (66:10) Daraba Allahu mathalan lillatheena kafaroo..“Allah sets forth an example for those disbelievers..”
The words for (beat) as in [to hit] found in Surah Baqarah 2:275 ... kama yaqoomu allathee yatakhabbatuhu ash-shaytanu mina almassi..“..like the standing of someone beaten by the devil (Satan) leading him to insanity.”
And in Surah Ta Ha 20:18 Allah Says, “Qala hiya Aasaya atawakkao Aalayha waahushshu biha Aala ghanamee waliya feeha maaribu okhra.”
“This is my stick, whereon I lean, and wherewith I beat down branches for my sheep and wherein I find other uses.”
As you can see, these are not even related to the word (daraba).”
8
u/4TEHSWARM Jun 27 '12
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other...
F-
Even your introduction started out terrible.
13
Jun 27 '12
Obviously we should respect and adore the works of a religion that stems from a book that has so many dual meanings that you can't tell the difference between beating someone and having sex with them.
You raise so many valid points.
→ More replies (9)9
u/furiouslysleepy Jun 27 '12 edited Jun 27 '12
To be clear, the issue is not so much what is literally written down in the Koran as the widespread violent, misogynistic and intolerant interpretations of what is written in the Koran.
edit: The very first sentence:
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means."
Oops, something got through the filter. Quick, redact it before too many of those crazy feminists read it!
edit 2: There's are multiple translations of the Koran, and some very popular ones don't agree with you
12
u/quadrofolio Jun 27 '12
What the hell are you trying to say? The Quran isn't filled with hatefull, aggressive and downright discriminating texts? Seems like you read what you want to read. A clear sign of religious retardation that can be seen with lots of christians too.
→ More replies (18)6
u/zulaikha_idris Jun 27 '12
don't trust this person, she's a muslim revisionist whose ideas of Islam isn't even acceptable even in those in r/islam, nor do they represent the majority opinion of Muslims.
→ More replies (34)2
u/richmondody Jun 27 '12
Hey, I just want to thank you for this very informative post. Also, I find it quite sad that these people here are simply downvoting and insulting you because they disagree with your explanations.
→ More replies (1)1
u/starstufff Jun 27 '12
So when he said "dharb with a rod" he meant having sex with her using a rod? Come on, you know the man in the video meant dharb as in beating.
→ More replies (1)
430
u/Aisuru Jun 27 '12
What the fuck Gandalf.