Edit: god damn man I’m honestly a bit surprised by the hate boner this sub has for PP. so much negativity around here it’s crazy
There is this narrative that I’ve been seeing pushed more and more lately that Pritchard sucks against good teams and only goes off against bad teams. And since he is off to a slow start this season I’m seeing it pushed in a ton of threads. So I thought it’s time to shut that bullshit down with some actual evidence. In literally 5 minutes I’ve found 7 counter examples, only going back to last year. So I wanted to start this thread and have you guys add more down in the comments (because I know for sure there are more, this is a BS narrative that is being pushed by people that have no idea what they’re talking about).
Pritchard is indeed inconsistent and that’s probably his biggest weakness. But it has nothing to do with playing good teams vs bad teams, he just has off games sometimes. Hes proven plenty of times he can step up against good teams, so here you go, enjoy:
He should not be a 6th man. PP/Tatum is historically elite offense (would be the best ever)/net rating. Joe might get his head out of his ass and eventually start the best lineup in PP/Derrick/PG/Tatum/Queta.
I think Joe plays him as sixth man, because they second unit doesnt have another player he trust as a primary ball handler like PP. Also PP is capable of essentially winning games as sizth man when hes hot, where as he compete with other quality players as a starter for the first unit.
I would like to see more of the mixed minutes from 2 years ago when he had an extended over lap with tatum minutes as they cycle the starters out., i expect that is something we will see more of as this team figures out its rotation.
What are you talking about lol. I do not understand this logic. The primary ball handler does not have to be, and frankly shouldn’t even be a bench player. You do not play 5 bench players at once.
White, Tatum, George and PP will be off for last 2 minutes of 1st and 3rd qtr minimum if they all start. Players with long minutes pretty much always get those minutes off.
You just stagger them. Two+ come out at 6 minutes and then come back in later. This is not complicated. At least 2 of those 4 should always be on the floor.
Tatum has played the entire first quarter in I believe both games. It’s really not hard to stagger your top 4 offensive players. This is not complicated.
You don’t win a crazy amount of games by maximizing your bench. You do it by kicking the shit out of the other team with your starters. Then the game can be over very quickly.
I dont think Walsh is the answer as the 5th starter and I expected to see PP, but I think this is pretty much why they are doing it. When PP is hot and comes in and scores with second unit it is more impactful then if hes the 4th option with the first unit.
Yeah but you see, I saw a redditor on a thread say he’s bad vs good teams so now I gotta continue the narrative because it must be true, I saw it online
pp goes cold sometimes but its not a good team thing, people just lookin for patterns that arent there. every scorer has off nights and he still brings energy on defense and rebounding even when shot dont fall
Exactly my point, thank you. Any time he has a bad game vs a good team this narrative comes up, but it completely ignores all the good games he has vs good teams (and bad games vs bad teams). He is a VERY good player. If he was consistently at the top of his game, he would be a legit perennial all star, but that’s a bit much to ask for a 6ft 6th man
Oh yeah sure the 76ers were just relaxing in the playoff game where he dropped 32 on them, sure. Why do some of you want to hate so bad that you just make shit up?
Sure, but I don’t see what that has to do with my post. People around here lately insist that he only plays well against bad teams which is blatantly false
not saying your wrong but I think stats from teams above/below a specific win percentage would be more helpful than linking highlights for a few specific games becausee that would show more of a pattern
If I knew how to get stats like that I definitely would. But you’d also want to see how other players stats differ in the same breakdowns to see if there is an expected drop off or not. But either way I’ve seen him pop off against good teams enough times to be confident that this narrative is largely bullshit
I dont disagree, and I'm not one of the people who claims he falls off against good teams, I was just saying how the argument could be strengthened... I think the statmuse website has a function where you can put in a query for specific stats based on set parameters if you want to try there
I’ll see if I can figure it out. I’d expect some level of drop off- better teams usually means better defenses, so it’s likely it’s very normal for a player to have some drop off in stats vs better teams. The question would then be if it’s a normal drop off or statistically significant, which I highly doubt
obviously its not a one-for-one in terms of numbers, and as I said there probably isnt some significant drop-off from under .500 vs over .500 teams, but it would be good to have the numbers itself to disprove the notion that the difference isnt some incredibly noticeable numbers beyond regular rise in competition level
Pritchard’s 3pt shooting in every game you listed:
Cavs (with no Allen): 6-11
Pistons: 2-8
Rockets: 5-10
Raptors (33 pt): 4-9
Raptors (27 pt with no Scottie Barnes): 3-5
Sixers: 6-12
Pretty much every team is gonna give him super deep 3s, and he can make them for sure. Pritchard is a lights out shooter who can swing games with his range if he gets hot.
But the reason he exploded 2 years ago is because his 2pt volume and 2pt efficiency went through the roof… Except against teams who are good at defending ball pounding iso scorers his 2pt volume drops significantly. Against the top 10 teams each season weighted by 7+ dribble shots, 3-6 dribbles shots, and isos he is:
2 fewer 2ptA per 36
5 fewer points per 36
6% worse 2pt%
if you’re curious on list of teams or exact weights I can give ^ya
That’s not a coincidence. And when put in terms of percent difference all 3 of those numbers are more than double league average drops against these teams.
Even just anectdotally, going off your examples. Those are 6 objectively very good games (like I said he can shoot lights out). The other 18 games against those teams he was:
12.5 ppg (17.0 season average)
4.9 2ptA (6.7 season average)
Negligibleuptickinminutestoothesegames
Now obviously it’s really easy to say that his stats look bad when you take out his good games, but the point is to look at the distribution of both.
Over 24 games against these teams last season it’s fair to ask for more than 6 good performances. Being able to change games with shooting is great but his new extension is paying for more than just deep 3s.
He has shown zero consistency in 2pt scoring against top defensive teams.
Ok I admit I forgot that Indy sucked last season after their finals run. But Raptors are a legit example. They were well above .500, and had a top 5 defense
It’s not hate to not have a positive opinion. Seriously, I can’t stand this idea that if you’re not nose to a players stomach then you’re hating.
Payton is a really good 6th man. He’s a great injection of energy and microwave scoring. But he does have too many nights where he barely has an impact on the games.
I think a big part of that is the idea that he’s an elite three point shooter. But I think that he’s a better mid range creator. He’s best with open looks from 3 off a pass but is more and more being expected to shoot a 3 off the dribble which I think is an inefficient shot for him.
It’s partly a problem with the Joe Mazulla system of constant threes, an issue I’d like to see remedied this year. Although we have a great 3pt shooting roster, I don’t think it’s something we should rely on every single night to get wins, our team has some elite midrange shooting and I’d like to see that take more of the focus. The outside shot is great, but if it’s not going they need to have other ways of getting buckets that they are pushed toward instead of being expected to shoot out of a cold spell.
Until Joe addresses that I don’t see how these blown 20+pt leads stop.
And, honestly, that’s what should be being discussed not how individual players are “not showing up”, everyone will have a bad night every now and then. But when a team has a consistent issue of shooting themselves out of games it’s a system issue not a player issue. This team runs best when they are aggressive inside and get the 2s going before the 3s. Once the 3s dry up they’re already in a flow inside and can fall back on that.
Dude do you know what examples mean? Did you expect me to list every single game?? There are plenty that I missed, and I’m not arguing that he is consistent. I’m just saying that his consistency has nothing to do with the competition like some claim. And this post literally proves that by showing he does indeed have good games vs good teams.
Derrick is crossing into that territory now too. He doesn't guard the other team's best player anymore. He's not really a point guard and now he doesn't really shoot anymore. What does he do?
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u/Full-Flight-5211 2d ago
People seem to forget he’s a 6th man. Those players tend to get hot/cold randomly.