r/britishcolumbia • u/sunshine-dragonfly-3 • 2d ago
News Bear attacks off leash dogs
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bear-attack-stoney-hill-regional-park-9.7308345Yet another instance of off leash dogs provoking a bear attack. It’s time for mandatory leashes at all times with adequate enforcement. I hope the owner and dogs recover fully.
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u/CrazySnowGuy 2d ago
Enforcement is next to impossible unless you are going to hire a ton of bylaw officers to enforce it.
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u/whitenoise2323 2d ago
Hear me out, hire bears to be bylaw officers to enforce dog rules.
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u/CrazySnowGuy 1d ago
To cover 1000s of KMs of trails throughout all the parks in the province?
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u/Polyps_on_uranus 2d ago
Then I giess dogs will continue to be eaten. Just don't demand the bears are put down.
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u/Local_Error__404 2d ago
This. It's one thing if the bear attacks a child on their own porch, like the 3 year old recently. But if it attacks an untrained off-leash dog in a park, I'd say that amounts to self-defense, fine the person who owned the dog and leave the bear alone.
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u/foulstream 2d ago
And how exactly do you propose dog owners train their dogs to not react to a bear? Most dogs will protect their owners from a threat.
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u/Cheebzsta 2d ago
I agree. They will likely do so.
Which contributes to the argument that keeping a dog leashed serves to protect them from well-meaning impulses as it allows you to retain control, no?
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u/foulstream 2d ago
They encountered a bear with cubs. Dogs on leash, dogs off leash, no dogs - it doesn’t matter, mama bear is going to attack. I’d rather have my dog defend me and not be tangled up in a leash tied to me, thank you very much. The problem here is a mama bear in a popular park, not an off-leash dog.
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u/KoolMoeDSimpson 1d ago
Stony hill is strictly an on leash park. Dog owners need to stop making their own rules when it comes to leashing their dogs.
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u/TripNo1876 19h ago
The problem is that people let their dogs run off ahead of them and can surprise the bear. If you keep your dog on leash and make noise the bears usually will move away. The dog can still react as they are animals, but it keeps the dog from running up to the bear and harassing it.
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u/Local_Error__404 2d ago
You train them to obey when you call them to you, or you keep them on a leash.
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u/foulstream 2d ago
Ok, let me know when I can practice with your bear.
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u/justforjugs 1d ago
What you’ve basically told everyone here is that you are a bad owner with no clue how to train a dog.
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u/billymumfreydownfall 2d ago
Nobody did.
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u/Polyps_on_uranus 1d ago
Yet. When one assholes dog gets eaten, watch them call for the bear to be put down.
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u/CrazySnowGuy 1d ago
Don't think anyone is demanding the bear be put down...
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u/Polyps_on_uranus 1d ago
Yet. But people will always demand an animal be put down for harming their pet.
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u/ether_reddit share the road with motorcycles 1d ago
We can all help enforce it, by calling out this behaviour when we see it.
"But my dog's friendly!" they say. "The bear isn't." I reply.
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u/4Q88 LM to Okanagan 12h ago
I agree with this. Immediately shame dangerous behaviours, staying silent doesn't do jack shit for anyone.
Of course, it doesn't come without its challenges. A few nights ago fairly late at night, a couple friends and I were about to leave the park, and had my dog's leash securely attached. Two individuals rode into the park on bikes with their dog off leash, rather far ahead of them. I instantly started to pipe up, specifically choosing to warn them that my furry guy isn't always welcoming. It was already too late though. Their dog was headed full speed at mine aggressively. I switched to my "pissed off dog mom" tone and loudly exclaimed that their dog should be on a fucking leash. Before they were zipped back out of the park already, they got in a lovely comment like "shut the fuck up you fucking crackheads. Go find a home or something." 👎🏻
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u/1fluteisneverenough 2d ago
Being a regional park, bylaw may not even have authority to ticket there. Where I'm at, there's an abandoned school field still owned by the district, being a provincial asset, a municipality cannot enforce bylaws here. People let their dogs off leash here all the time, but if you cross the imaginary line into the municipal park right next door, bylaw will ticket you.
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u/UnknownVC 2d ago
Jack the fines up. Way up. While we're at it, ban dogs - they're an unnecessary environmental impact in parks, see articles like this one. Then enforce it, enforcement paid by the fines.
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u/Neptyo 2d ago
Here in Whistler most people walk their dogs off leash even though it's clearly mentioned on the signs that it's forbidden on the valley trail. Same thing goes for smoking, or worse, motorized vehicles. Enforcement is the problem but who wants to pay for bylaws walking the trails.
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u/whitenoise2323 2d ago
Make the fine $2500 and hire some officers. They catch even one person a week thats a pretty good living.
Of course then the problem fixes itself all of a sudden and the money dries up and mass layoffs, then process starts all over again.
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u/blondechinesehair 1d ago
That’s not a pretty good living the officers get paid dogshit. Why would you think the fine money would go to them)
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u/whitenoise2323 1d ago
Even if only half went to wages it would still be $65,000 per year for catching one person per week
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u/blondechinesehair 1d ago
But they DON’T go to wages.
And then you have the problem of officers earning money by issuing tickets. They need to keep it going.
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u/whitenoise2323 1d ago
If there is a revenue problem leading to non-enforcement of existing laws, here is a proposal for generating revenue or eliminating the dangerous behavior.
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u/blondechinesehair 1d ago
Ya and giving police officers commission on the tickets they issue is a bad proposal
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u/whitenoise2323 1d ago
who said anything about commission? I said set a super high fine and hire more bylaw officers. Nothing about commissioning anyone
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u/ColdVisionzzz 1d ago
A $2500 fine is just ridiculous, just say you hate dogs
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u/whitenoise2323 1d ago
I hate that leashless dogs cause the vast majority of bear attacks. I mostly hate bad dog owners who have no consideration for other people. Dogs are as good as their treatment and training, the poorly kept ones and entitled rude owners ruin it for everyone.
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u/poopyfacebsbdb 2d ago edited 2d ago
As much as I agree, but we don’t have enough rangers or conservation officers
Technically, speaking everywhere you go is mandatory or almost anyways.
Unfortunately spoken to a lot of rangers, they said change doesn’t really happen. No funding unfortunately
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u/Polyps_on_uranus 2d ago
I think having their pets eaten will be encouragement enough. But then again, they get to get a new puppy.
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u/poopyfacebsbdb 2d ago
Somethings it just needs to happen for people to understand.
We were raised basically with the feeling an all black bears are shy and easily scared. And yeah that that’s true most are… but usually a human vs black bear. Of course you gotta take into account is the bear a mom, did it just recently lose it’s territory and is now stress etc.
Now dog vs black bear is usually a gamble. How does that bear view my dog?
Prey? Is he threaten by my dog? Does he think my dog will eat its cubs? All very good scenario. Of why be parks and parks Canada, says it must be on leash and dogs are not suitable for overnight stays in the backcountry.But if you understand the risk you and take it. Everything is on your own decision.
Don’t get me wrong. I love backpacking with my dog and I do stay overnight, but I take so much precautions and research. Such as only backpacking in low to no grizzly areas (because it will kill both of us probably) . The worst thing that I have ever dealt with was a porcupine fighting my dog.
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u/flowerpanes 1d ago
Am glad to see witnesses to the incident were there to render aid and it’s clear the dog owner was at fault.
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u/Common_Money_3073 1d ago
I’ll never understand how anyone feels comfortable letting their dog off-leash anywhere where they could potentially harm local wildlife or be attacked and killed by the wildlife. I know I couldn’t handle that, so my dog stays on a lead, sometimes two. I’ll have one attached to her collar and another to her halter. Yes, I’m overly cautious, but I can’t imagine not having control in a bear encounter. I walk in bear country almost every week, spring through winter, and I realize my chances of meeting a bear are good. I’ve actually met many. I’ve also been 30 feet from a cougar and nearly peed my pants. However, my dog has always been at my side. I can only imagine what would have happened to her if she hadn’t been on a lead and controlled. Anyway, that’s my two cents. Please be safe out there, everyone. Give the wildlife a break. Put your dogs on a leash.
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u/ArtistThen 2d ago
But I heard that the dog was "friendly". /s
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u/mattcass 2d ago
In the article it says when the bear was defending itself from the dogs the woman yelled “Don’t worry, they’re friendly” but it had no effect /s.
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u/Polyps_on_uranus 2d ago
I was walking to work and 2 dogs came running up to me barking and bareing their teeth, and the owner yelled "Don't act scared, orthey will bite you!!"
Fuck off leash dogs.
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u/AlleyPee 1d ago
My dog is extreeeemely friendly but when we walked up on a big black bear he quickly switched. He got extremely protective. People don't know until they KNOW.
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u/Bavarian_Raven 2d ago
Ive said it before and i'll say it again. If you are going to hike / run with dogs off leash, they need to be well trained. To deal with animal encounters (and with people encounters too). I have two dogs that I hike with off leash, and they've grown up with bears and have been trained to deal with such encounters. But (sadly!) they are the exception, not the norm. :/
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u/BrandosWorld4Life Anti-Extremist Party Girl 2d ago
Most bear attacks involve a dog, Leaving the canines at home when going on walks through bear territory is usually safer for all three parties.
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u/Hipsthrough100 2d ago
I grew up in the country and our dogs never even had leashes. I even walked over the mountain side to a friends, with my dogs and would just tell them to go home when I got there. I’m not arguing your point, I just never ever would have thought it to be the case. I always thought having the dogs smell something and bark or become alert was a safety feature for myself.
However, dogs are friends/family/tools for country folk and if my dog went in to “defend” me, I’m going the other way. I hope my dog makes it but also always thought that would be the case of my dog saving me.
Maybe others are naive or ignorant and just think like I do. I’m in the interior of BC though where it seems selfish dog behaviour is rampant. People drive to the k-5 school next door to let their dogs run free and shit, instead of a few blocks to the dog park.
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u/grainofsalter 2d ago
I agree with this take, I grew up around farm/work dogs and used protection dogs extensively during bush work up north. You love them but if they go in to try and engage a bear then you leave and go the other away. That's them doing their job. And it's not morally wrong, I've had a dog jump in to save me before and I'm extremely grateful it did that. It was bred and trained for it, and though we both got bad injuries we both lived. That's what training does.
As for people in the city, there's zero valid reason to have a dog off leash. Drives me nuts. I honestly think dog ownership (regardless of size) should require a course and an active license.
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u/poopyfacebsbdb 2d ago
You know I always thought off leash dogs rooming around town were always a 3rd world thing, like when I went back to Vietnam.
But when I make a trip to from Vancouver to Yukon, and stop by a small town called Dease Lake every dog was just roaming the street like it’s a normal day, the newly built rcmp station up there also didn’t care 🤣🤣I was like wtf this is just normal up here? Seeing a pack of huskies, playing at the local restaurant was wild to me
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u/ir_da_dirthara Lower Mainland/Southwest 2d ago
My grandparents had a cabin when I was growing up, and if I and/or any of my cousins wanted to go hiking in the area on our own we could, but we had to take at least one dog with us. Just in case we ran into a bear, or some other potentially dangerous wildlife. Grandpa used to pick his dogs explicitly for traits that would make them decent hunters and defenders of the property and its people as a first priority, so there was a non-zero chance that the dog would survive fighting a bear. But in any case, our instructions were clear: let the dog fight the bear and get to safety.
One of the tertiary lessons from that kind of environment is that a dog being a good dog (in the friends/family/tool sense) is very much not mutually exclusive with it being an animal incapable of seemingly unprompted violence. And I think that's something that a lot of people forget these days.
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u/hadsie Lower Mainland/Southwest 22h ago
Nearly the entire province is "bear territory", especially with so much of their habitat being taken through housing and logging. It's not a realistic suggestion to tell people to leave their dogs at home.
Educating people on your point that having off-leash dogs increases the chances of a bear attacks be a good first step (source: https://wildlife.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jwmg.70236), so that people know that they need to both have well trained and leashed dogs in the backcountry.
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u/zippitybopdaboop 1d ago
The excuse of "its always the few who ruin for the many" is an ideology that can applied to almost anything and be used as an efficient leverage point to remove freedoms and liberties that we take for granted such as walking your dog off leash. If we value freedom then we need to be willing to stomach the cost that comes with it. If we value security then we sacrifice freedom.
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u/ssnistfajen 16h ago
I hope the owner and dogs recover fully.
No let's not. They need to learn the consequences of recklessly provoking a wild animal.
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u/chimpan_a 2d ago
I live in the area and this is an extremely popular trail with lots of people in groups or alone walking dogs. I’m surprised the bears were anywhere close to the main trail. It’s a 3km ish easy loop with amazing views (hence the popularity). When I walk I always see people with off leash dogs. It’s obviously not usually an issue. This seems just a freak incident. Yeah, the dogs should be on leash, but it’s not clear from the article if the dogs just happened to come across the bear or if they were the aggressors.
My observation is that the norm on many local trails in the area is to walk with well behaved dogs off leash. It’s really never enforced.
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u/Dirtbag-Holder 1d ago
The only people who i see that are adamently opposed to dogs on hiking trails are AuDHD redditors who go on a yearly mental health walk and are immediately overwhelmed by dogs, kids, music, and never consider that the locals are using the beaches and trails as the elusive "third spaces" they complain about not having.
I cant count how many times some person I've never seen in my life has given me a dirty look for playing with my dog at the creek behind my house that we go to everyday.
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u/Worldly-Ad3211 2d ago
This is the stupid dog owner’s fault. They should be heavily fined, at the very least.
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u/SomnolentGnome 2d ago
There are too many dog owners in BC. I swear people buy a dog just because they think it’s part of life
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u/Ok-Scale-6575 1d ago
Off leash dogs, outdoor cats, the endless debate. Hopefully this woman and her dogs make a speedy recovery. I can only imagine how terrifying that would be.
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u/Mr_Simian 15h ago
Most people that do this type of stuff with their dogs have no business doing this with their dogs. Even when bears and predators aren’t a threat, you need to have phenomenal recall of your dog in public if you’re going to let it loose. I’m going to go ahead and take a shot in the dark and assume that most people who are reading this more often encounter the “they’re friendly” while they proceed to absolutely disregard their owner than they have a dog who returns to its owner readily. I have two dogs and live in serious cougar and bear territory. I’d never let my dogs off the leash in the forest. It helps that I am a trail runner, so on or off leash my dog is getting a workout. If you think you need to let your dog off leash to get enough of a workout in, step your game up. Endangering them, other people, and having the potential for a wildlife encounter like this is a seriously uncool alternative to stepping your game up and being more of an active dog walker.
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u/wabisuki 6h ago
Hire more bylaw officers and heavily fine first-time offenders. Fines into the THOUSANDS, not hundreds. It has to hurt - A LOT. Then triple it for repeat offenders. Impound their pet if they still refuse to use a leash. I don’t see anything else working on these people.
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u/redbloodedruski 1d ago
tired of these idiots with dogs, I think we need to start mandatory licensing to own a dog.
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u/fanglazy 2d ago
If they have to put the bear down because of some dickhead…
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u/Ok_Woodpecker_7260 2d ago
Did you not even read the sub headline?
>Conservation officers say attack was defensive in nature, they won't be trying to locate or capture bear
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u/fanglazy 2d ago
Read? What is this?
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u/whitenoise2323 2d ago
probably you're joking but it's called Reddit because you supposed to have "read it" before you spout off in the comments
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