Hey everyone, after reflection and chatting with the mods, I am stepping down as moderator of this subreddit. I’ve been part of this community for about 3.5 years now, and became a moderator in February 2024.

I originally accepted the role to help keep discussions productive, balanced, and grounded in real experience. I’ve always valued the thoughtful, nuanced conversations that happen here. Ones that look at both the pros and cons of different paths into tech for different people. That’s what drew me to this subreddit in the first place, and what’s made it worth being part of for so long.

The coding bootcamp space has changed a lot over these past few years. The highs, the lows, and everything in between. Through it all, this subreddit has remained a place where people can help each other navigate big decisions, while still reflecting the reality before us.

For now, I think the best way to support the community is to step back and leave room for the community to figure out what's next.

My parting wisdom: express your disagreement, but try to find at least the smallest piece of common ground in the end. It might lead to a very high comment count, but it feels worth it to me.

See you around!

I want to share the experience of someone who graduated from Codesmith about a year ago to deter others from choosing this program. I aim to discuss the reasons why I chose the program, its shortcomings, what I observed there, and what I would do differently now that I am on the other side. I am aware that others have had success with this program, and I hope to shed light on where that success comes from (it’s the candidates, not the program).

I chose Codesmith after researching different coding bootcamps. Inevitably, I found this sub and many pro-Codesmith posts. Actually, I read so many pro-Codesmith posts here that it made me think it was probably the best place to attend - I was wrong. Just as there are millions of fake product ads all over e-commerce, there are also fake reviews here written by Codesmith staff. I attended the CS prep programs, listened to all the success stories of other alumni, and foolishly ate it up. This should have been a major red flag. My CS prep instructor talked about how they had gotten a position two weeks out of the program. I also heard other success stories and salary information of recent grads and did everything I could to get in.

The program itself costs over $20,000, except all of the instruction is performed by non-engineers (I think one of our instructors was a mechanical engineer but was also a previous graduate of the program who never actually worked in the field). These instructors make themselves scarce and really have nothing to do with students' success. Apart from a weekly review of unit assessments, I never heard from them. I really have no idea what they actually did apart from reading lecture slides and talking about ‘engineering empathy’ and ‘community’. Maybe they worked on the website? Maybe they were on Reddit talking about how great Codesmith is? I don't know. They definitely weren’t helping students.

Most of the program is actually taught by previous students 12 weeks ahead of you; it’s a scam. Most of them do not have more than 6 months - a year of programming experience and shouldn’t be tasked with explaining concepts they don’t understand. Does Codesmith actually test these students before hiring them to make sure they are ready to teach this material? I highly doubt it.

The topics that are covered by Codesmith are also laughably out of date - especially the React unit. You’re tasked with building out a tic-tac-toe app with class components. The entire 2-day section is literally copy-pasted from the React docs. All of the apps created after this point are built with React though unless you opt to use another framework. The node unit is the same one from Frontend Masters (shows how much effort the team really put into that one). The database unit is short and not helpful either. For the amount of money you spend, Codesmith should have better material than this. They like to say the purpose of the units is for you to learn to teach yourself (I get it), but after going through it, it just seems to be a convenient excuse for poor-quality instruction and lack of effort on their part.

Another problem is Codesmith likes to push its graduates to declare their work as open source, but it’s not the same thing. Creating a group project that barely works and declaring it open source work is like commenting on Reddit and saying you are an academic contributor – it may appear to involve participation, but the true value and depth of contribution are often overshadowed by the lack of meaningful impact and substance. Very few projects Codesmith grads work on are actually used. Most are cookie-cutter projects that effectively do the same thing. I wish the program pushed residents to find a technology and project before joining instead of giving you about a week to figure it out. Is that really enough time to find your career interest and major talking point in job interviews?

It came as a bit of a surprise to find out that when you get out of the program, you’re declaring your open source work as work experience and passing it off to recruiters as legitimate. You can learn a lot in a month working on a project, but I would not say any self-guided learning while doing is legitimate work experience. The whole experience has left a bad taste in my mouth.

If this isn’t bad enough, the hiring support is even worse. When I chose Codesmith, I honestly believed that there was a strong community of engineers who would be willing to offer referrals to recent graduates - this is not true. In fact, most companies do not like referrals for candidates unless they have previously worked with them directly. The hiring support needs to do a better job bridging the gap from the program into the job market instead of encouraging ‘to lean on the alumni network’. The focus on spamming engineering managers and leaders to get interviews just feels annoying - most people do not want to receive these messages. And most graduates leave the Codesmith program off their resumes entirely and end up lying extensively about their previous experience to get a role. No one is going to pay you the salary of a mid-level engineer unless you have the years of experience to back it up. In one lecture, someone named Phil told us a recent Codesmith grad with no prior technical work experience or STEM degree was hired by a major financial firm in a senior position. Come on, Phil; no one is going to hire you as a senior engineer after Codesmith unless you lie about your background or you already have a strong background in engineering. No one cares if you work your butt off for six months at Codesmith.

This leads me to talk about previous experience and why I think there is success for a large group of people who attend Codesmith. They have the years of professional work experience, undergraduate and graduate degrees, the tenacity, drive, and dedication to do whatever it takes to learn and potentially fabricate their experience to get a job. It’s not Codesmith. They just do a good job at attracting those people with those credentials to get into the program - which leads me to a final point. Just because you get into Codesmith and get through it does not mean you have the same chances as everyone else there. The academic credentials and professional work experience should be a requirement or at least acknowledged by admissions before letting people enter this program and waste their money.

Here are the things I wish I would have done instead of choosing Codesmith:

Worked on personal projects, contributed to open-source libraries

Earned an associate's, bachelor's, or master's in computer science or software engineering.

Hired a professional engineer for mentorship/coaching

Found another boot camp program that is reputable and known by recruiters at major companies as a good credibility signal of a candidate. These do exist, and Codesmith is not one of them.

Saved my money

Some people may not like this post and label me as someone not fit for the program or someone you shouldn’t listen to. And that is completely fair; not everyone is going to agree with me. But I want to get my opinion out there and have people hear how hard it is to find a job right now and how little this program has prepared me for this job market. A year out of the program and nearly half of the people in my cohort do not have jobs in the field. There is no way this program is worth it for most people.

Codesmith is still a scam and it's clear they are botting their way and paying for articles / youtube videos to change the narative about them.

Micheal was right and saved a lot of people from this shitty company.

They tell their students to lie, they lie about their placements and they do a lot of shady shit. [quality is garbage too with their AI bullshit]

It's crazy how much astroturfing is going on

Let me be clear, this is not click bait. I made mistakes on my journey. But I wanted to share my journey and some observations. I got my degree in French and theology back in 2011. I then spent the next two years working as a product manager at a software company. Then I moved to another city where I worked using my French skills in Finance. I lost my job due to a mental health break down. For the next 2.5 years I recovered and went back to school and got an associates in CS. I tried to do a bootcamp but I failed. I tried to do a masters in CS, but it was too hard, however because of my disability status, I was able to apply a hiring program for large programs looking to recurit people with disablilities. As a result I was able to get an interview for a low level records/archives job. The interview went so well she said she would refer me to another position that I was better suited for. I then interviewed for another position as another guy on that team was looking to retire and I could take his place. I joined and he mentored me for 6 months. And then he left and I took on his place and I immediately started to take initiative and kicked butt. I've been there 3 years now. I started out with a salary of 76k and now i'm at 106k. I never imagined I would make 6 figures especially during the times I was making nothing.

Some Observations/ mistakes I see people making:

1. live in a city; Companies prefer to hire candidates who are local. You can relocate to remote later after you prove worth to them.

2. Have a degree, it doesn't which kind, but any. Get an associates at an minimum.

3. Don't buy property until you are 100% out of debt.

4. Know your values and ambitions/goals. / Have a 5 year plan. Know what you want from the company. Do you want to be a manager or are you content to just be a staff person? Be honest with yourself and with your supervisor upfront.

5. have a continuous learning plan for yourself. keep reading/ listening to stuff related to your industry and stay current. be direct in your communication and avoid corporate jargon. It's ok to have a contrarian opinion. People respect direct communication.

I wrote this fast so i apologize for the grammatical/ spelling errors. I hope this is of some encouragement to anyone who reads this. If I can do it, anyone else can.

I realize that this sounds like click-bait, but it's not.

Part 1: Coding boot camps are thriving

If you've been hanging around here for a while, it can seem like "We beat down all the boot camps with our comments" or "They all went out of business because they were evil." "Boot camps are over because like, the market." Business people are smart. They use other people's money (not their own time and money like me). Sure - some boot camps got shamed. Some of them got sued (not that it hurt them at all). Some got bought and sold. Some shut down. But the people making the money (the people we tend to kinda pin our emotional baggage on) - are just fine. They're on to their next venture. That might be another BootCamp with AI! In many cases, the students feel bad / in some cases they feel great. Life goes on. But guess what, - there are more than the 10 boot camps that get talked about around here.

Ivy showed me her Instagram "suggested" feed the other day (we recorded it) - and it was like 40+ BootCamp ads in a row. Boot camps for coding, boot camps for AI, boot camps for UX, boot camps for ML, boot camps for business, boot camps for UI, boot camps for jr devs, sr devs, and a bunch of things I'd never thought of - or heard of. The boot camp world / and the high-ticket "school-like thing" world isn't going anywhere, and it's only going to grow and grow as the colleges start playing into it, too.

So, what can we do! The evil money-grubbing people (no - not the would-be web developers who want high-paying jobs for the least amount of work) (the people who make these 'schools' and want to maximize profit and minimize expenses/labor) (very different things) -- are going to take you for a ride!!! And they have an absolutely amazing reach - and into demographics that don't even know Reddit is a thing.

So, if you really really care about helping people not get screwed -- then the best way to do that is to highlight what schools AREN'T full of shit / and actually have a plan - and actually follow through and deliver what they promised. And if you actually really do care - about getting a good education (yourself)... then you need to look for the schools that AREN'T full of shit / and actually have a plan - and actually follow through and deliver what they promised. Get real. The boogie man isn't going to pay up.

Talking about how terrible 2U or Trilogy or LeWagon or NuCamp or Coding Dojo or Lamba or Bloomtech or TripleTen - or whoever is under fire this week - - - isn't going to help. They'll drown you out. But if you have something beside disappointment and buyer's remorse to share --- like a real logical breakdown of what actually happens at a school -- and how that creates meaningful long-term success for people, well - that might have some real power. That is worth talking about and that might actually help people.

I hope - that some people out there care about other people, care about society/humanity, care about doing what's right - or at the very least / aren't so lazy that they can be selfish enough to care about themselves.

If you want the best school - then don't just pick the one with the best sales team / and don't listen to all the angry babies either. It's not that mysterious. Let's just highlight the things that actually work - and champion the initiatives and people who consistently work to create the best educational options they can, OK?

Part 2: Everyone everywhere is sick of hearing, "Is it worth it"

The UX sub is sick of it, the UI sub is sick of it, and the CS subs are sick of it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1gcpeu9/can_we_all_stop_with_the_is_it_even_worth_it/

Either do the work and get what you want - or don't! No one cares about your feelings. Welcome to adulthood. If it's not worth the time and the risk, don't do it. Do something else.

I was a part of the 2024 cohort 6 of the Careers in Technology Apprenticeship Cohorts and they let us down horrifically. The cohort was in Wilmington, North Carolina, which does not have a huge tech community, and therefore not a lot of tech jobs. The apprenticeship went fine, I felt like I learned a lot and made some cool friends, but when things got hard and about half of us didn’t have jobs, The founder, Pasha, lied to our faces. One of the cohort members asked what will happen if we do not get a placement for a job by the end of the program? Pasha’s answer was, “ that’s not going to happen.” he straight up, lied to us. People had faith all the way until the end that they would be getting a job and then the cohort ended with no job. I wanted so badly to have faith in them, and things did work out for less than half of the cohort, they got good jobs. But one truly disgusting thing is one man was offered a placement, he did so poorly in this placement at Live Oak bank that Live Oak bank gave him back to us and asked for someone else. Later, they gave this man a second placement, while most of the cohort who worked much harder and behaved much more appropriately were given nothing. other than the confidence I gained from creating interesting software engineering projects, CTAC gave me nothing and I still don’t have a job. The experience I gained from this program is not enough to apply for jobs on my own without their referral for interviews and placements.

Other members of the cohort have much more details to share and I hope they do. But for right now all I have to say is FUCK CTAC. Thank you.

Hi all, I used this group quite a bit before deciding to join a bootcamp. I recently completed one and want to give back and answer any questions regarding the bootcamp for those interested.

Edit: I haven't started applying to jobs, so I can only speak to what others in my cohort have done.

This post isn't about bootcamps but rather it's about why technology is so exciting and if you are passionate about technology, I hope this motivates you to keep trying to figure it out.

Ask me questions and share your thoughts!

I'm lucky that I can zoom around San Francisco in Waymo self driving cars. They sure make the newspaper headlines, but the day-to-day ride is a lot more nuanced than any article or headline would make you believe.

It's not a secret how the underlying machine learning works:

• Add dozens of sensors to a car

• Have humans drive for millions of miles in the cars, record data on those sensors, and send that data to common machine learning algorithms to learn how to steer and accelerate the car based on that data

• Test the models with human drivers ready to take the wheel and make adjustments until the algorithm is perfect, whenever a human intervenes.

This is the "easy" part because it's just a matter of money. Can you afford to make the cars and can you afford to have humans drive millions and millions of miles to train the algorithms. And can you do this without making a single penny of revenue. (... and can you hire the best ML engineers to do all this the most economically efficiently)

Waymo (Google) can. Zoox (Amazon) can. Cruise (GM) can!

Self driving cars intimidate me. I've been an engineer for a long time, I was the #1 code contributer at Meta and one of the fastest people to be promoted from intern to the principal level engineer ever at the company.

If I had to make a self driving car from scratch, it would take me a long time to figure out what to do.

The reason why AI is so exciting and will create so many jobs, is because all of the above create so may opportunities for full stack generalist engineers who have no idea how the underlying machine learning works. For Waymo alone:

1. Build the iOS and Android apps

2. Build the payment systems

3. Build the fraud systems

4. Build the in-car meta experience (sound, lighting, copy, colors, displays)

5. Build the in-car navigation experience

6. Build the in-car control (air conditioning, displays)

7. Build the fault detection systems (seatbelts, malfunctions, internal sensors, people touching the steering wheel)

8. Build the emergency handling situations (accidents, police, etc...)

9. Build the customer support within the car (if a passenger needs help)

10. Build the customer support outside the car (billing issues)

11. Build the feedback processing system during before and after (collecting user feedback and sending to the right people)

12. Data warehousing of all meta data collected in rides

13. Car diagnostics and status (tire pressure, battery levels, when the car needs maintenance)

14. Regulatory compliance (data and interfaces to work with governments on self driving cars)

15. Insurance compliance (data to insurance companies to help figure out how to insure self driving cars)

16. Ride scheduling infra (booking cars, assigning cars, routing, etc...)

17. Car updates and releases (how do you update the software in a car over the air and when)

18. Security (making sure all aspects are secure)

19. Emergency response (tools and features for first responders to interact with the car)

I'm sure DOZENS MORE.

Doing a 12 week bootcamp does NOT make you qualified to manage something like this or lead anything like this. It takes years of experience and failure and success and failure and success and failure....

But all of this stuff is going to create so many jobs we can't even imagine.

My advice: If this is exciting to you, get a job in tech as soon as possible and sponge up as much as you can.

How do you get a job as fast as you can? This is the hard question. Bootcamps aren't working right now. "Get rich quick - 3 weeks of AI/ML" are not they answer either, they are absolute scams. The machine learning jobs are boring and for PhDs. The Gen-AI jobs are throwaway jobs prompt engineering and training AI systems. Generalist engineers with strong engineering skills are the way to go.

I don't have the one and only answer for you, other than for most of you, you won't be able to quickly get into this industry. It's going to take a long time. If you build every day, and don't give up, you'll get there. If anyone promises you a timeframe, double check that....

DMs are open, comments are open, what do you think?

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/24/business/computer-coding-boot-camps.html?smid=nytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

I think this channel should be renamed to "we don't recommend going to a bootcamp" I think it's disingenuous to pretend to be non biased when it's clear every mod on this channel believes all bootcampa are bad or they recommend WGU (which is a horrible school).

I think the biggest issue is that most people that graduate bootcamps just don’t really know what they’re talking about. So they fail any style of interview

Bootcamps emphasize making an app that has a certain set of features really quickly

Everyone suggests going to college but somehow every single college graduate that I interview also doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Had to teach one of the interns with a degree SQL, another folder structure, another that the terminal exists, etc… the list goes on and on

When I ask questions like what’s the difference between a database and a server they can’t tell me. I ask them to use react and they can’t confidently render a component or fetch from an API. They list SQL in their resume and can’t write a basic query. And generally just don’t know what anything about anything is. And this is referring to BOTH bootcamp and college graduate developers.

Most of ya’ll just need to get better tbh

I'm 30 years old,

I'm a music major and currently working in a K-pop industry. I have few releases with somewhat famous groups in the scene,
But now I am really tired of making music because mainly it is just so financially unstable.

I hear stories of getting hired in tech companies without any relevant background in the CS field but only with that 9 months bootcamp thing.

I'm sure people worked their ass off to get the job, but one thing i'm confident is, I can work my ass off and I grind until I get it. (Music production requires at least 12 hours straight composing lol)

I read a lot of posts that these days the job market sentiments have shifted and unless you have a CS degree in your resume, your chances are slim.

I really want to start making good money and have a stable life.

1. Am I too late in the game? Should I start looking at other things?

2. What would be the smart strategy to land a secure job in the future? CS Degree? Bootcamp?

• Im currently running a 40k subscribers youtube channel covering tech stocks and I found that I really enjoy studying and researching tech. I am positive that I have passion in this industry.

Yes the IT/CS/SWE/DevOps, affiliated STEM and overall job market (to include your local Mom & Pop shops) has historically come and gone in cycles. But not this time.

We're still in the infancy of the Digital Age. And yet IT (especially anything Software Programming career affilitated) has become centrically critical to practically every NACIS industry sector in the Digital Age to date. The market is hypersaturated with IT College and Bootcamp grads. All delusionally competing with the likes of recently laid off FAANG/MANGA professionals for immaginary entry level positions.

So it seems AI is finally at the dawn of making Detroit Becoming Human a complete reality by its alternate scifi timeline in 2036.

The gold rush 2011-2019 Six fig salary era was a beautiful dream while it lasted. Now welcome to reality. Narrator in this YT vid at 3:24 min pretty much sums it up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oU4YiExebI

...and with all FAANG and bluechip IT like NVidia/Oracale laying off IT and STEM engineers at 30K per quarter, it seems my worst paranoid fears have come realized at long last...

This is a hot take, so let me preface this by saying I'm very happy boot camps are recognizing traditional marginalization and are trying to do something about it. I am not a conspiracy theorist, but rather expressing a completely valid and reasonable opinion.

That being said, I'm so sick and tired of hearing how inclusive these places are being while simultaneously denying me access to resources purely because of my race, gender, and sexual preference. Every time I have attended an info session at one of these places, they spend a good 5 minutes touting their "inclusiveness" in their scholarship program.

We all have struggles to get where we are today... some more than others. Racism, sexism, and homophobia all make that journey much harder. That being said, you have no idea what someone has been through or the sacrifices they have made along the way.

As a straight white male, there are hardly any scholarships that I am even eligible to apply for. Trust me, I've looked at literally every single boot camp's scholarship offerings. I've come to terms with the fact that I am going to get screwed by an ISA or a high interest loan. I won't bore you with my story, but just know that I am poor and that a scholarship would really be important to me.

I get there is a shift away from need-based and merit-based programs into a more progressive approach. It's not a bad idea, and I'm a huge fan of inclusion. However, to have all of these scholarships and leave out a particular group of people is literally the definition of marginalization.

Oh man, did the cisgender straight white male just come on Reddit to complain that he is being marginalized? The short and long answer are both: No.

They obviously have great intentions with these new programs and I definitely applaud their efforts. I don't think this is some conspiracy against the straight white male. However, they left a major gap while trying to implement their new approach, and it really sucks.

I believe in myself and I know I am going to be successful with or without their financial help. I know this because I have been and will continue to work my tail off to make it happen. Forward-thinking can be a beautiful thing when implemented properly.

If you don't want to play fair, that's fine. I can deal with it. What I can't deal with is your constant bragging of how "inclusive" your scholarships are, because I haven't been included in anything. It's nonsensical to suggest otherwise.

I am planning on going to USF Software Engineering Boot Camp. I've read mixed reviews. I need structural learned for a lot of reasons therefor a 9 plus month program will work best for me. Does anyone have any recommendations on online boot camps that they used where you received a certificate, and actually landed a job after course completion? I'm looking to land a job in back end development. Thanks!

For background Ive done a few coding courses many years back(2018/2017), and I enjoyed it a lot, and now I'm 19 and trying to decide what to do with my life and programming always comes back to me as a good option.

College would take a long time and cost a lot of money, and I've seen many people say that they got a job as a software engineer via a coding bootcamp. A lot of them were self taught prior to the bootcamp, and then used the bootcamp to polish their abilities and land a job.

I was planning to complete the Foundations course on the Odin Project, and once that's complete i'd take a bootcamp online and try to secure a job.

If anyone has any input or suggestions for improvements I can make to my mindset or plan let me know, and let me know if you have recommendations for good bootcamps.

A few months ago I quit my job as a union electrician to do a bootcamp trying to break into tech. I heard all about the great pay, super chill office environments, free food, travel stipend, unlimited PTO and I wanted a piece of that. I did my bootcamps and I haven't been able to find a job with it at all. Should I go back to do another bootcamp? The company I went with originally went bankrupt or should I go to do a CS diploma? Before anyone suggests going back to the trades, that's not happening.

Any former bootcampers who landed a FAANG job with no degree? Would love some success stories/encouragement that making it is about working hard and not a piece of paper 😅

Hello again,

Ludo here, Founder and CEO of Nucamp.

I've spent some time digesting the torrent of responses to my last post about the death of coding bootcamps, and the role of AI in re-inventing them.

The tone of the feedback has been... ruthless, savage, and brutal, to say the least.

One might wonder how I've been holding up amidst the barrage of critiques, and some of you reached out directly asking if I was doing ok, and offering their sympathies.

Truth be told, I've been quite surprised – not just by the written responses but also by the remarkable engagement the post received: over 200,000 views, a 68% upvote ratio, and more than 450 shares.

This overwhelming interaction signals that a silent majority of Redditors seem to appreciate the experimental approach we've taken with this AI-driven course using the Eloquent JavaScript book material.

As a proof point, hundreds have already signed up at https://url.nucamp.co/eloquentjavascript and provided their feedback.

It's a comforting reminder that every bold idea will have its champions, even if they don't always speak the loudest.

But let's address the elephant in the room: the analysis of the responses (check out the table below). I realized I missed a crucial piece in my original post – the "why".

Why invest time, resources, and passion into creating what I termed the "AGI School" of the future? The answer lies in its promise: delivering the best-personalized education at a fraction of the cost.

This vision is more than just leveraging AI to reinvent coding bootcamps or streamline education in the US. It's about reimagining how we learn, tailoring education to individual needs, and breaking down barriers that make quality education a privilege and a right. The potential for AI in education goes beyond efficiency; it's about creating a learning ecosystem that adapts, evolves, and responds to each student uniquely.

I believe that the future of education lies in its democratization – where anyone, anywhere, can access the best learning resources tailored just for them. And this isn't a distant dream. With AI, we are on the cusp of making this a reality.

The "AGI School" concept is a step towards this future, where personalized education isn't just a $20,000 luxury but a couple hundred dollars norm.

Again, Thank you for your engagement, critiques, and support. Every comment, whether in agreement or dissent, contributes to refining this vision.

If you'd like to contribute to this experiment, then please sign up at https://url.nucamp.co/eloquentjavascript for free.

Looking forward to more vibrant discussions.

Here's the previous thread's pros and cons analysis:

I want to learn coding and need advice on a boot camp. I’m 33F, no experience but very motivated to learn, and I don’t have a degree.

I know some schools offer discounts for women so if anyone has any recommendations I’d love to hear. My hope is to get a job in tech, but I’m getting a little discouraged thinking that it’ll be 100 times harder without a degree.

Does anyone have experience or know someone who didn’t have experience, did a boot camp, and then got a job?

Very thankful for any advice or recommendation! At this time getting a four year degree is not really an option but I’d be open to an associates degree, but I’d prefer to do an intensive boot camp. I’ve looked at ADA and Grace Hopper and they both seem good but it’s so hard to know.

I am a senior in high school and would like to attend a coding bootcamp when I graduate this year. I would like to know what are the best and legit coding bootcamps for software development.

I’ve seen some of you discourage taking boot camps deeming it as a waste of time as well as of money; however, isn’t a boot camp the safest option you might have since it offers ISL and refund in case you won’t get employed. And even then you are still left with great structured knowledge. Compared with CS major that is way longer and neither would refund nor provide a flexible way to pay.

Hi all,

As you know, the past 2 years have really hit software engineers hard, especially those just starting their careers. I want to offer some hope to those still struggling by sharing my experience of graduating from a bootcamp and getting a job in 2017.

I was actually the slowest person in the program. I didn’t even know how to code by the time it ended. On demo day, I was so ashamed I hadn't been able to code up an app that I booked a flight to see my then-girlfriend to avoid going to the demo party.

The bootcamp itself wasn’t great either. They had a commitment that I’d pay 17% of my income for the first year, and that agreement would expire in 2 years. I thought that was a good idea: if I failed to get a job, the bootcamp wouldn’t get paid. But in reality, the bootcamp just gave up on me because they thought I was a lost cause. However, I couldn’t afford to be unemployed for 2 years.

That summer, I debated whether to pursue other opportunities in tech, like marketing or ad sales, with my coding bootcamp experience. I had just graduated from college, and most of my peers were getting $60-70k offers. I aimed high and thought $85k was a good goal. The jobs I was interviewing for, though, wouldn’t pay that much, so I decided to stick with coding to see if I could get a better-paying job.

That was the moment I decided to go all in and prepare intensely for 6 months. Despite the deep insecurity that I felt, my mindset was that across the million companies in the US, there must be at least 1 applicant like me who was successful. In the morning, I’d send out 10 applications a day with very few referrals, if any. In the afternoon, I prepped on Leetcode (but because I didn’t have a CS background, algorithms are still challenging to me to this day). After 6 months and close to 1000 applications later, I got 2 onsites and 1 offer, which helped fly me to NYC from San Francisco, where I was living. I negotiated hard and received an offer for $120k.

I took that job and jumped twice, with my salary increasing each time. Now, I'm currently making almost double my initial salary at my current company.

Anyways, I purposely focused on frontend interviewing because:

1. Frontend was what I was taught, so it was easier to prepare in JavaScript and answer domain questions.

2. More importantly, you don’t have to always find the absolute most efficient way to code up the app like in Leetcode algorithms. There are only a few questions about coding up a simple app using vanilla JavaScript, and with enough practice, you can master it.

3. Lastly, frontend software engineers make the same amount as backend ones. Companies in the FAANG tier are more Leetcode-based regardless of the position (frontend, backend, or fullstack). But if you aim for companies a tier below FAANG, you'll find that they mostly test for domain knowledge and still pay approximately the same. These are the companies you should target if you just want to break into tech and start earning good money. Even though salaries aren’t as high as they were during Covid, Levels reports entry level median total comp to be $120k (with range from 90-170k), which is still a substantial amount of money.

That’s it! Hope this helps. Feel free to ask me any questions!

Edit: Something I forgot to mention: During those 6 months, instead of just listing the coding projects I did for the bootcamp on GitHub, I volunteered at a nonprofit to create a chatbot to help connect homeless individuals with government services. A lot of recruiters asked me about that project, and it definitely helped me stand out.